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Return our second dodge and fix mesmers!


Veprovina.4876

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On 12/13/2022 at 1:37 PM, Veprovina.4876 said:

Well, they fixed a long standing Mirage bug with this update. That's very good, so, i hope we won't have to wait much longer for the second dodge.

Part of me hopes its in the works, part of me tells the other part its a fool to hope for Anet to follow through on it.

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On 12/16/2022 at 1:31 AM, Moradorin.6217 said:

Part of me hopes its in the works, part of me tells the other part its a fool to hope for Anet to follow through on it.

Ow God I just hope it's not one of those things that turns into another 'long-term initiative'. 

 

I mean, just look at WvW World Restructuring.  

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25 minutes ago, Varis.5467 said:

Ow God I just hope it's not one of those things that turns into another 'long-term initiative'. 

 

I mean, just look at WvW World Restructuring.  

Firebrand rework fixed like 5 times already since PvE players complain they need to adjust their rotation even if the DPS is fine, mirage rework only affects competitive modes but you lose half of a core functionality (dodge) so expect it take ages 😬

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6 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Firebrand rework fixed like 5 times already since PvE players complain they need to adjust their rotation even if the DPS is fine, mirage rework only affects competitive modes but you lose half of a core functionality (dodge) so expect it take ages 😬

Having been reminded of this makes me wanna uninstall, but then I can't uninstall what is already uninstalled. 

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Always mained Mesmer. This 2x2 season after 20-30 battles, tried ranger(core/soulbeast/untamed), necro Harbringer, catalyst.

 

MESMER is a piece of garbage. I tried power/condo mirage, tried core(the only playable now spec) , in comparison with other classes, it’s so clunky, so low damage, low sustain, it is just garbage. It’s ruined in all ways. Even in spring it was more fun)

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On 12/17/2022 at 2:06 PM, Revalent.4205 said:

Always mained Mesmer. This 2x2 season after 20-30 battles, tried ranger(core/soulbeast/untamed), necro Harbringer, catalyst.

 

MESMER is a piece of garbage. I tried power/condo mirage, tried core(the only playable now spec) , in comparison with other classes, it’s so clunky, so low damage, low sustain, it is just garbage. It’s ruined in all ways. Even in spring it was more fun)

Been trying to roam on Chrono for a while now... It's so hilariously bad, just as mirage it's not even funny anymore...

I'm doing full dps gear, and i'm barely doing any damage on both of them.

Virtuoso might be better, idk, but i don't have any more EQ templates, and at least i'm enjoying Chrono in PvE, so i'm not removing that build for it.

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Tried virtuoso in pvp and pve. No buffs, no damage. Lots of blocks. Booring.

in pvp it’s over predictable and useless. There no way it can do something nor in duels, nor 5x5.

when it just appeared, played him in condi burst spec, max confusion and cc, with 2x sceptre. It was fun enough, until everyone learned animation of f2.

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55 minutes ago, Revalent.4205 said:

Tried virtuoso in pvp and pve. No buffs, no damage. Lots of blocks. Booring.

in pvp it’s over predictable and useless. There no way it can do something nor in duels, nor 5x5.

when it just appeared, played him in condi burst spec, max confusion and cc, with 2x sceptre. It was fun enough, until everyone learned animation of f2.

Yeah, virtuoso has gigantic tells, some are the worst from any profession.

 

I swear, it's about time to do something good about mesmers, this is really unfair, and unfun.

But hey, they fixed the axe bug, baby steps i guess...

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21 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Still waiting to have those Trade-Offs rolled back! *cough*

Our tradeoffs have tradeoffs and those tradeoffs introduced new tradeoffs that completely broke Mesmers.

It's time to make things right for once, after years of class favoritism and nerfing mesmers because "balance team don't like us".

It's time to stop pretending mesmers are good, and that any time we got a scrap of usability, it wasn't taken from us under the guise of "OP" (wow, mirage can do 20k with complex rotation and just provide alacrity?, how awful - let's make mech do that instead with autoattack, while providing 50 boons passively).

 

I really think it's time the community of people who actually play mesmer, not just come here to dump on our class, actually stands together and tells Anet to stop abusing us. We want to have fun too.

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🆙🆙🆙🆙🆙

 

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Our tradeoffs have tradeoffs and those tradeoffs introduced new tradeoffs that completely broke Mesmers.

It's time to make things right for once, after years of class favoritism and nerfing mesmers because "balance team don't like us".

It's time to stop pretending mesmers are good, and that any time we got a scrap of usability, it wasn't taken from us under the guise of "OP" (wow, mirage can do 20k with complex rotation and just provide alacrity?, how awful - let's make mech do that instead with autoattack, while providing 50 boons passively).

 

I really think it's time the community of people who actually play mesmer, not just come here to dump on our class, actually stands together and tells Anet to stop abusing us. We want to have fun too.

Hitting the nail on the head there champ. 👍

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1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I really think it's time the community of people who actually play mesmer, not just come here to dump on our class, actually stands together and tells Anet to stop abusing us. We want to have fun too.

Anet doesn't care as long as they have money rolling in.  Virtuoso is relatively fine, and Mirage and Chrono are functional.  They aren't good, they aren't great, they are functional (barely depending on what build).  At this point I don't see Anet investing the resources into fixing the playstyle of a profession or eSpec beyond any type of numeric tweaks to existing skills and traits.

Simply looking at what they did the last year, how they executed changes to Mesmer and other professions, this dev team isn't in the market to make changes that complex.  And given the cadence of releases, it will likely be February before we see another round of tweaks and the possible chance for Mirage to get it's dodge back, and then 2-3 more patches of rebalancing to fix that.  That puts us where, end of 2023 before Mirage may actually be balanced into the Meta for each game mode?

I'd still wager that in 1 year, Mirage is still just Functional, and doesn't play any differently than right now.  I'd almost wager that second dodge doesn't come back in 2023 given how Anet has treated the Mesmer profession in the past few years.

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3 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Anet doesn't care as long as they have money rolling in.  Virtuoso is relatively fine, and Mirage and Chrono are functional.  They aren't good, they aren't great, they are functional (barely depending on what build).  At this point I don't see Anet investing the resources into fixing the playstyle of a profession or eSpec beyond any type of numeric tweaks to existing skills and traits.

Simply looking at what they did the last year, how they executed changes to Mesmer and other professions, this dev team isn't in the market to make changes that complex.  And given the cadence of releases, it will likely be February before we see another round of tweaks and the possible chance for Mirage to get it's dodge back, and then 2-3 more patches of rebalancing to fix that.  That puts us where, end of 2023 before Mirage may actually be balanced into the Meta for each game mode?

I'd still wager that in 1 year, Mirage is still just Functional, and doesn't play any differently than right now.  I'd almost wager that second dodge doesn't come back in 2023 given how Anet has treated the Mesmer profession in the past few years.

tbh I think they are trying to pretend one dodge doesnt exsist and that they, in fact, did remove the trade-offs from professions as they claimed they would do and just rely on the fact that since not many Mesmer players pvp/wvw and those that do play Virt or Chrono that they can just continue to ignore the reality that trade-offs for Mirage are all still in place.

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40 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

tbh I think they are trying to pretend one dodge doesnt exsist and that they, in fact, did remove the trade-offs from professions as they claimed they would do and just rely on the fact that since not many Mesmer players pvp/wvw and those that do play Virt or Chrono that they can just continue to ignore the reality that trade-offs for Mirage are all still in place.

From their history and habit of sweeping crap under the rug for anything mesmer related this is sadly likely what's going to happen. 

Edited by Varis.5467
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55 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Anet doesn't care as long as they have money rolling in.  Virtuoso is relatively fine, and Mirage and Chrono are functional.  They aren't good, they aren't great, they are functional (barely depending on what build).  At this point I don't see Anet investing the resources into fixing the playstyle of a profession or eSpec beyond any type of numeric tweaks to existing skills and traits.

Simply looking at what they did the last year, how they executed changes to Mesmer and other professions, this dev team isn't in the market to make changes that complex.  And given the cadence of releases, it will likely be February before we see another round of tweaks and the possible chance for Mirage to get it's dodge back, and then 2-3 more patches of rebalancing to fix that.  That puts us where, end of 2023 before Mirage may actually be balanced into the Meta for each game mode?

I'd still wager that in 1 year, Mirage is still just Functional, and doesn't play any differently than right now.  I'd almost wager that second dodge doesn't come back in 2023 given how Anet has treated the Mesmer profession in the past few years.

Yeah, but i'm trying to kinda change things up a bit and soar to the heights above "relatively fine" and "barely functional".

They're never going to do anything if we keep being ok with how things are and fake mesmers who don't even play the class, coming in spamming how mesmers are great isn't helping (not talking about you, just in general, we all saw those posts).

 

And really, not in the market for complex changes? Code for 2 dodges already exists on every class. The code for one dodge is actually the complex thing that needed to be made. If they can do that, they can revert it back to default as well.

 

Mirage was actually functional (yes, again, great heights to strive for) when it provided alacrity and might on staff, and EVERYONE and their mother came here to complain that it's too OP, the forum was littered with people who pretend to play mesmers, but the worst part was that actual mesmer players came to complain that Anet did a good thing, while i tried to thank Anet for making good changes to us.

 

And what did i say? That when they start nerfing us after being ungrateful  for a good thing, they're going to nerf us to the ground and never look back. I hate that i was right, but we have partly ourselves to blame because they care even less about us now then they did before. Catalyst gets a slight nerf, community uproar. Mesmer gets a slight buff community uproar. Some things aren't correct in this equasion.

 

59 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

tbh I think they are trying to pretend one dodge doesnt exsist and that they, in fact, did remove the trade-offs from professions as they claimed they would do and just rely on the fact that since not many Mesmer players pvp/wvw and those that do play Virt or Chrono that they can just continue to ignore the reality that trade-offs for Mirage are all still in place.

 

19 minutes ago, Varis.5467 said:

From their history and habit of sweeping crap under the rug for anything mesmer related this is sadly likely what's going to happen. 

See this is what i'm talking about. How is Anet going to ever do something good for us, when we give up before we even try to do something? And related to the post before - complain when they do?

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1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

They're never going to do anything if we keep being ok with how things are

I agree. The current state of profession updates and balance is atrocious and I’d like to see the root of the problem, Anets profession developers and testers, be improved upon. 
 

Until the people making these changes are given the tools and guidance to do their job well, we will continue to get really poor updates from them. 

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2 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I agree. The current state of profession updates and balance is atrocious and I’d like to see the root of the problem, Anets profession developers and testers, be improved upon. 
 

Until the people making these changes are given the tools and guidance to do their job well, we will continue to get really poor updates from them. 

Yup! Ting is - how do we get through to Anet. The community hates mesmers, the balnce team hates mesmers - it feels really bad playing this game at times knowing that the very people that make it actively don't want me to have fun, and that i have to fight all the time for very basic things available to everyone else.

 

Yet, i like this game, and i love playing as a mesmer (not much as of late though), when mesmers were up to par with everyone else, it was a joy to play.

 

I just don't understand what i did to anet that i have to be treated as a second class citizen, along of course with every other mesmer player, it's insane.

 

I payed for every expansion when it came out, i bought gems, not a whale, but i did support the company, i participate in the community, why am i the bad guy? You know? Because this behaviour has gone way beyond "bad balancing", with all the leaked discord stuff and similar, where devs actively admit to favoritism, and in our case anti favoritism, in any other setting, this would be called abuse. But because it's a game, and we're just "renting it", it's always "well you don't have to play it".

But i want to play it, i paid for it, i support it when i can, why am i not allowed to have the same fun everyone else is afforded?

 

And no, "just change class" doesn't fly here. I have most of them, that's not the point here in case someone else wants to make that argument.

 

I mean, just look at how long they let us be without that dodge, and how long we're trying to get through to them to revert a janky system that is unfun and cumbersome when it no longer will make even a dent in the balance of mirage in WvW, nothing will change except now it won't be as janky, mirage will still be terrible because of years of what they did to it. Just look at how hard we have to fight for a basic thing like 2 dodges that won't even affect any power anymore, just make mirage slightly less janky.

 

It really makes me feel unwanted in this game.

Edited by Veprovina.4876
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4 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Yeah, but i'm trying to kinda change things up a bit and soar to the heights above "relatively fine" and "barely functional".

They're never going to do anything if we keep being ok with how things are and fake mesmers who don't even play the class, coming in spamming how mesmers are great isn't helping (not talking about you, just in general, we all saw those posts).

 

And really, not in the market for complex changes? Code for 2 dodges already exists on every class. The code for one dodge is actually the complex thing that needed to be made. If they can do that, they can revert it back to default as well.

 

Mirage was actually functional (yes, again, great heights to strive for) when it provided alacrity and might on staff, and EVERYONE and their mother came here to complain that it's too OP, the forum was littered with people who pretend to play mesmers, but the worst part was that actual mesmer players came to complain that Anet did a good thing, while i tried to thank Anet for making good changes to us.

 

And what did i say? That when they start nerfing us after being ungrateful  for a good thing, they're going to nerf us to the ground and never look back. I hate that i was right, but we have partly ourselves to blame because they care even less about us now then they did before. Catalyst gets a slight nerf, community uproar. Mesmer gets a slight buff community uproar. Some things aren't correct in this equasion.

 

 

See this is what i'm talking about. How is Anet going to ever do something good for us, when we give up before we even try to do something? And related to the post before - complain when they do?

No one is giving up. Far from it. I plan to just keep reminding everyone.

We cannot control what Anet does, but we dont have to accept having the only class in game with one dodge that is a split mode after the fact nerf that was done as a trade-off which they themselves claimed was a thing they are/have removing/removed. However, I will be be happy to say I was too quick to judge and thank them and say I was wrong if they follow through and remove Mirage's trade-off (one dodge).

 

My hope is that they come back in a few weeks and say it was in the works and they have been busy and plan to give Mirage back its other dodge next big patch. That would be just fine with me. I will be happy to say I was too critical and impatient if that proves to be the case. However, with regards to patience it has been 3 years now...

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