Problem of Superior Rune of the Golemancer in PvE-Instances

[kaese.8765]

This rune is currently implemented into the >Power Mech meta build<. It summons a golem which does something i call an antipull. It knocks back enemies. CC is good but you can't control it. For example:

fractals - i want to pull trash mobs to cleave them effectively. this golem knocks back all the enemies so we have to kill them worst case one after another. annoying

harvest temple - purification phase - i already saw the golem pushing Veteran Void Melters into the heart which can cause a wipe.

 

my suggestion for the devs is to remove the knockback of Whirling Assault or rework the rune so it would't be valuable for this build.

 

edit:

i don't expect people know how their rune setup should be in different situations. the best alternative rune is the superior rune of the scholar for sure but most casual gamers copying builds from well know sites without any knowledge or still play their power mech the selfish way.

 

_________________________________________________________________

this topic was made to give people the opportunity to think about their rune usage. dT has already builds for fractals for your lovely power mech (with scholar rune! and NOT with golemancer rune) online. ...may google be with you! have fun

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by kaese.8765

[Sunchaser.9854]

In Wow i'd just recommend taking a look at a gear optimizer and looking for a good rune with good results but maybe 0.1% less paper dps but most people there even know how to use one, much less likely here.

 

It's probably fair to say that if a snowcrows raid build might not work for fractals, a fractal page even if the build is mostly 80-90% identical maybe a couple clicks or a tree swapped out might be good to consult. Other power builds commonly run rune of the scholar which gives +5% increased strike damage above 90% hp that might be fair to look into as a subsitute to mess around with a golem. But if you want to deviate from a build, sometimes you might need to run a few minutes of your own research and test a build out. Or just.. Do whatever the heights of the average gw2 player feels like doing anyways. 

[SuavePuppy.2809]

There was always a tradeoff with this rune that made it more useful in open world than instanced PVE, so I was surprised when I saw them on a Snowcrows build. There are a number of runes that can serve as a fine substitute. If you want similar stats, use Eagle runes. If you want a second pet, use Ogre runes. I don't think there's any reason to make Golemancers more omnipresent than it is in groups right now.

[Linken.6345]

Well 2 out of their mechs skills also knockback, they (the mechanists) just have to have a brain to not hit the ball OP

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Rune of the Scholar and Ogre (less damage, but more uptime) are still meta.

 

However one thing to keep in mind, Engi Rifle 4 + Force Signet + F2+F3+F4 (all of them are hard CC) + the golem allows players to single-clear breakbars in normal mode encounters and shave a huge chunk off on CMs, due to the way the golem's push back works (like Rev's staff). This leads to a far lower failure rate in Fractals, etc. but its almost useless in strikes where breakbars are rare.

 

Unfortunately the game doesn't make it easy to swap gear without either buying full equipment templates and a second set of armor, or having all legendary-quality gear.

 

For the sanity of your peers, the golem's knockback should probably be changed to knockdown.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Rasimir.6239]

Let me get this straight: players came up with a build that provides top dps if handled by a skilled player that knows how to deal with the drawbacks of the build (in this case the somewhat unpredictable golem ai). You now call for a removal of (the major part of) the drawback to turn this from top of the line dps into baseline damage that everyone and their mother can put out without much care?

 

Meta builds are builds that players come up with that give a theoretical best (or near best) output of whatever is expected of a certain kind of build, in this case damage. Meta builds are not (necessarily) what a game developer expects to be the build(s) necessary to clear specific content. Meta builds are also not the only viable build(s) for a certain role or piece of content.

 

If you find yourself unable to put out the performance you expect of yourself on a build, the solution is not to ask for the game to change to make it easier for you to perform to your expectations. The solution is to tweak the build to where it suits your abilities and preferences. In this case, as others have pointed out, there might be other runes that make it easier for you to put out the damage you want to put out without disrupting the fight in ways not acceptable to you. As others have mentioned above, there are rune sets in this game very similar in stats to the golemancer rune, that might suit you better without noticably reducing your damage output.

 

Personally I have a few full sets of golemancer runes on several asura characters that have used them for years mostly for roleplaying purposes, but also because the golem tends to be a great help especially with breakbars on builds that might not have enough cc. I'm aware of the potential to troll instanced content with it, either on accident or on purpose. I honestly would miss the knockback since I have learned to play with it rather than around it. It's just part of the golem, no matter if friend or foe.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Rasimir.6239

[Hashberry.4510]

Would be pretty funny if Anet fixed this for the mechs.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

9 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Let me get this straight: players came up with a build that provides top dps if handled by a skilled player that knows how to deal with the drawbacks of the build (in this case the somewhat unpredictable golem ai). You now call for a removal of (the major part of) the drawback to turn this from top of the line dps into baseline damage that everyone and their mother can put out without much care?

Friend, the thread is about the golem being annoying for allies just like Ranger LB #4. You're allowed to have your own drawbacks but trying to force them on others is silly.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Ashen.2907]

16 hours ago, kaese.8765 said:

i want to pull trash mobs to cleave them effectively

If this is done right the golem will not have time to scatter the grouped mobs.

[Yaki.9563]

57 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Friend, the thread is about the golem being annoying for allies just like Ranger LB #4. You're allowed to have your own drawbacks but trying to force them on others is silly.

Your request is ridiculous. This rune set is to provide something fun and unique, not to cater to your latest meta build. The Mark I signature move is the knockback whirl attack.

You're trying to phrase it like it like the problem is the rune set. No, the problem is the player. Do you ask for every knockback ability in the game to be changed because some player likes to use that ability in your group? Obviously not. 

[Sunchaser.9854]

 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

13 hours ago, Yaki.9563 said:

Your request is ridiculous. This rune set is to provide something fun and unique, not to cater to your latest meta build. The Mark I signature move is the knockback whirl attack.

You're trying to phrase it like it like the problem is the rune set. No, the problem is the player. Do you ask for every knockback ability in the game to be changed because some player likes to use that ability in your group? Obviously not. 

Since when do experienced players spam knockback in high-end content? The whole point of being experienced is knowing when to use and not to use your skills, so that you don't drag the group down.

 

That's not possible when you take this rune, and I can guarantee you're running it on a Machinist set up for the maximum autoattack DPS with all your F# skills on autocast, because that's the type of player that does things like this, then acts like they're super exp because they can do damage.

 

I'm one of them at times too, because I get lazy, but come on.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[mindcircus.1506]

On 8/9/2022 at 12:20 AM, kaese.8765 said:

This rune is currently implemented into the >Power Mech meta build<. It summons a golem which does something i call an antipull. It knocks back enemies. CC is good but you can't control it. For example:

fractals - i want to pull trash mobs to cleave them effectively. this golem knocks back all the enemies so we have to kill them worst case one after another. annoying

harvest temple - purification phase - i already saw the golem pushing Veteran Void Melters into the heart which can cause a wipe.

 

my suggestion for the devs is to remove the knockback of Whirling Assault or rework the rune so it would't be valuable for this build.

Just to be clear... this a thread calling for the meta runes to be.... buffed?

[Infinity.2876]

Can't you throw the enemies back into the middle?

[Doggie.3184]

Just kill the thrown back enemies. You're a god complaining about a few wingless flies trying to hop away.

[Funky.4861]

I simply wouldn't use this runeset in any instanced content unless the group i am in is ok with it (or swap out one of them for eagle rune or something).

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Since when do experienced players spam knockback in high-end content? The whole point of being experienced is knowing when to use and not to use your skills, so that you don't drag the group down.

Similarly, the point of being experienced is knowing when to use and not to use the builds that can go against the group's goals/priorities, doesn't it? If the experienced player understands that their rune of choice can knock back groups of mobs and it's undesirable then maybe they shouldn't be bringing that rune to the non-champ fights.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sunchaser.9854]

Just a common sense rule. What is designed to be optimal for benching a golem might not always be consistently reliable enough to be used everywhere. Untamed and many of the specs above mechanict usually have high apm /situational rotations warnings that their dps could easily be crippled and require fast thinking on the fly or lose massive dps varying their high apm rotations was the boss moves or might have invulnerability to certain mechanics.

 

I think untamed has a note it only works on certain bosses and many of renegade large vs hit boxes got standardized to small hitbox. Because changing your boss's size for untargeted artillery strikes on ren or vindicator could easily and often be -4-5k dps losses just on building vs bear sized hitboxes. So stuff like runes that knock mobs over or melee specs that have high apm varying rotations in practice with boss warnings or fast on the fly high apm required since a hidden side thing people miss is. Most high apm/ability builds will easily tax 10-60% of a 2% dps advantage away while having 10-30% more uptime on a mobile boss/add can easily beat a 2% static dps edge on melee. 

Thats why ingame, one certain spec tends to dominate 90% of pug lb for 5% the effort. But you'll probably have to get arc to see how most people do in-game to compare practical results vs golem dps. Other classes Can beat it.. It just takes frame perfect rotations to get a spec within 80-100% of bench and even something as small as 100-200 ms latency might make some players wonder if its just bench or players.

I've heard some Oceanic players say they practiced for 75 hours on the golem with a 200-280 ms ping and their best result after 75 hours was a 31k of 37k bench leaving them scratching their head if rotation or 280 ms latency was the 20% missing. 

 

Basically wanting to run stuff for groups isn't bad, but I mean there's a fair reason to wonder if paper vs practice. Golem dps vs raid dps doesn't always translate, but I'm starting to wonder if the game is wonky enough if the level its tuned to is a level above what players practicing for 75 hours on 280 ms can achieve. Very fee players are interested in doing more work for a identical result. So someone in oceanta spending 75 hours to bench 80% on their ping is probably fair enough to be happy with their class. if you only have 98% of your dps, you'll probably still be fine than that player spending 75 hours to find themselves limited to 80% of bench and 30k bench dps for 75 hours of work is no shabby thing for most non mech classes to achieve either. 

[kaese.8765]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:13 AM, Ashen.2907 said:

If this is done right the golem will not have time to scatter the grouped mobs.

with a bursty comp its easy but i wanna see how you do this with pugs in fractals with npng active and slow ramping dps builds.

Edited August 11, 2022 by kaese.8765

[Hashberry.4510]

I won’t use minions or runes like this even in OW. I can’t stand the interference, I even catch myself yelling at my clones.😄