All the best players play mechanist...

[Tails.9372]

19 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Look at GW2wingman and you'll see that mechanist is at or near the top DPS on almost every single raid boss

Yes barely, and if you look at GW2wingman you'll also see that the ones on / near the top of the DPS chart are usually the ones that play into their rotations while the ones that "only spam the AA" (which seem to be a minuscule minority) are generally just in the middle of the chart easily beaten out by other classes. The whole thing with ">30k AFK DPS on full support" is nothing but a myth that doesn't match with reality.

 

[Obtena.7952]

11 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Yes barely, and if you look at GW2wingman you'll also see that the ones on / near the top of the DPS chart are usually the ones that play into their rotations while the ones that "only spam the AA" (which seem to be a minuscule minority) are generally just in the middle of the chart easily beaten out by other classes. The whole thing with ">30k AFK DPS on full support" is nothing but a myth that doesn't match with reality.

 

Correct, which is why Anet is wise to ignore the QQ on the forums about the power rifle AFK build red herring and just pay attention to the real problem causing mechs stacking; alacrity/barriers with no consequence to their DPS output. That's a spec design error. No other spec gets that luxury.  

What is assuring ... Anet already knows about the ruse people are trying to perpetrate here, based on the upcoming patch changes. 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

Yes barely, and if you look at GW2wingman you'll also see that the ones on / near the top of the DPS chart are usually the ones that play into their rotations while the ones that "only spam the AA" (which seem to be a minuscule minority) are generally just in the middle of the chart easily beaten out by other classes. The whole thing with ">30k AFK DPS on full support" is nothing but a myth that doesn't match with reality.

 

The reality is that mech is topping DPS at all skill levels and every aspect of PvE.  It's overtuned and needs to be brought in line.  That it just "barely" has the best performance on nearly every raid boss just means that it dominates at lower skill levels, which is why you see a bunch of mechs at the top of every open world squad.

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

The reality is that mech is topping DPS at all skill levels and every aspect of PvE.  It's overtuned and needs to be brought in line.  That it just "barely" has the best performance on nearly every raid boss just means that it dominates at lower skill levels, which is why you see a bunch of mechs at the top of every open world squad.

It pretty much is "in line" when it comes to players that know (and care) about what they are doing in the more demanding content. The only place where you see real discrepancies is in the "lower skill levels" but here you're comparing people who know what they are doing and purposefully go for an LI build like mechanist to have a more relaxing grind to players that don't really care about their gear / build, never seen a DPS chart (nor care to) and stop mid fight to take screenshots of the "cool looking boss". That's neither a valid argument against how the build performs in comparison, as it ignores too many factors which are not related to the performance of the build itself, nor is this unique to power rifle mechanist. I can join low tier Fractal PuGs on my P/P thief and do more damage than the rest of the group combined by simply "pressing 3 a lot". Like it or not but this is 100% "an issue" related to a mixture of both player behavior and how big A-Net allowed the discrepancies between skill floor and ceiling on most classes / builds to be (which is something they themselves have recognized as a problem which they are now trying to address) and is in no way indicative of an issue with the build in question.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Tails.9372

[AliamRationem.5172]

15 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

It pretty much is "in line" when it comes to players that know (and care) about what they are doing in the more demanding content. The only place where you see real discrepancies is in the "lower skill levels" but here you're comparing people who know what they are doing and purposefully go for an LI build like mechanist to have a more relaxing grind to players that don't really care about their gear / build, never seen a DPS chart (nor care to) and stop mid fight to take screenshots of the "cool looking boss". That's neither a valid argument against how the build performs in comparison, as it ignores too many factors which are not related to the performance of the build itself, nor is this unique to power rifle mechanist. I can join low tier Fractal PuGs on my P/P thief and do more damage than the rest of the group combined by simply "pressing 3 a lot". Like it or not but this is 100% "an issue" related to a mixture of both player behavior and how big A-Net allowed the discrepancies between skill floor and ceiling on most classes / builds to be (which is something they themselves have recognized as a problem which they are now trying to address) and is in no way indicative of an issue with the build in question.

Denial is a helluva drug.

[Kuma.1503]

-Adjusts tinfoil hat-

In a brilliant move by Arena Net "I have 2k hours on firbrand" Games, Rifle Mech has lives on for another patch. 

The forums are in flames, DEMANDING that the green tyrant be taken down from its metallic throne. 

 

Meanwhile, the firebrands sip tea as they have reached a point where they are SO powerful that nerfing them would literally break the game. They're out here evading nerfs like the rich evade taxes.  The longer mechanist remains, the longer the attention is diverted away from them. 

"Heal Mech is being slowly fased out, I can't wait to see which support we break the game with next" Reports one firebrand "My bets on Specter. We provide quickness, the stab, the aegis, and, really, everything else but the alacrity. The specters provide the alac, barrier, heals, CC, and well of bounty. They literally pad out our boons for us". 

Indeed, the future is looking bright for our blue friends. 

Rember folks, The best players in the game play Mechanist.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Karagee.6830]

6 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Correct, which is why Anet is wise to ignore the QQ on the forums about the power rifle AFK build red herring and just pay attention to the real problem causing mechs stacking; alacrity/barriers with no consequence to their DPS output. That's a spec design error. No other spec gets that luxury.  

What is assuring ... Anet already knows about the ruse people are trying to perpetrate here, based on the upcoming patch changes. 

 

Yeah based on the post that say they will look at ACTUAL average raid composition and ACTUAL average performance for balancing, it stands to reason that Mechanist is on the chopping board right now, ready to brought in line with everything else, starting with the patch after 23rd of August.

Anyone who doesn't see the stacking of dps and dps/alac mechanist or uses support mechanist as a ruse to continue plaguing the community with this utterly toxic specialisation is either blind or in bad faith.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Yeah based on the post that say they will look at ACTUAL average raid composition and ACTUAL average performance for balancing, it stands to reason that Mechanist is on the chopping board right now, ready to brought in line with everything else, starting with the patch after 23rd of August.

Anyone who doesn't see the stacking of dps and dps/alac mechanist or uses support mechanist as a ruse to continue plaguing the community with this utterly toxic specialisation is either blind or in bad faith.

Right ... that's not the dispute. Mechanist is definitely getting the hard look here. The dispute is SPECIFICALLY what builds are getting that look. The fact is that power rifle mechanists don't benefit from stacking because that build doesn't stack anything with other mechanists. The other mechanist builds stack Confusion, alacrity and barriers, resulting in a situation where stacking them eliminates the tradeoffs that would otherwise be necessary to make these builds effective. That's why power rifle isn't the target of Anet's nerfs this patch and the other mechanist builds are. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Karagee.6830]

20 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

-Adjusts tinfoil hat-

In a brilliant move by Arena Net "I have 2k hours on firbrand" Games, Rifle Mech has lives on for another patch. 

The forums are in flames, DEMANDING that the green tyrant be taken down from its metallic throne. 

 

Meanwhile, the firebrands sip tea as they have reached a point where they are SO powerful that nerfing them would literally break the game. They're out here evading nerfs like the rich evade taxes.  The longer mechanist remains, the longer the attention is diverted away from them. 

"Heal Mech is being slowly fased out, I can't wait to see which support we break the game with next" Reports one firebrand "My bets on Specter. We provide quickness, the stab, the aegis, and, really, everything else but the alacrity. The specters provide the alac, barrier, heals, CC, and well of bounty. They literally pad out our boons for us". 

Indeed, the future is looking bright for our blue friends. 

Rember folks, The best players in the game play Mechanist.

First nerf dps mechanist, then we will talk about firebrand. Firebrand, OP as it is, has HALF the representation of mechanist and historically, while always featuring in the meta, it has never reached those levels.

[Karagee.6830]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Right ... that's not the dispute. Mechanist is definitely getting the hard look here. The dispute is SPECIFICALLY what builds are getting that look. The fact is that power rifle mechanists don't benefit from stacking because that build doesn't stack anything. The other mechanist builds stack Confusion, alacrity and barriers. That's why power rifle isn't the target of Anet's nerfs this patch and the other mechanist builds are. 

People stack rifle and mace mechanist, because they require no skill to play. And because they require no skill to play, the gap between the theoretical benchmark and the actual performance for Mechanist is significantly, and I stress significantly, smaller than for everyone else. In addition to that rifle Mechanist is also ranged, so you don't even need half decent positioning and movement for dps uptime.

T.O.X.I.C.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

People stack rifle and mace mechanist, because they require no skill to play. And because they require no skill to play, the gap between the theoretical benchmark and the actual performance for Mechanist is significantly, and I stress significantly, smaller than for everyone else. In addition to that rifle Mechanist is also ranged, so you don't even need half decent positioning and movement for dps uptime.

T.O.X.I.C.

People stacking rifle power aren't doing it because it's LI or it's DPS are broken though. That's a bot tanking issue. 

Again, the problem with these threads ... people have no ability to identify the real cause of the problems that exist. Has nothing to do with LI or the DPS, yet THOSE are the things that people are QQing the most about.  Sad to see.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Karagee.6830]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

People stacking rifle power aren't doing it because rifle or it's DPS are broken though. That's a bot tanking issue. 

It's dps IS broken considering even a 'harder' rotation requires you to press 3 or 4 buttons and is low intensity.

There is no other build in this game that gets 90% of the maximum achievable dps (benchmark rotation) with a low intensity build and around 75% just by autotattacking (i.e. pressing NO buttons).

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

It's dps IS broken considering even a 'harder' rotation requires you to press 3 or 4 buttons and is low intensity.

There is no other build in this game that gets 90% of the maximum achievable dps (benchmark rotation) with a low intensity build and around 75% just by autotattacking (i.e. pressing NO buttons).

Well, you can think what you like. That's actually the least problematic thing about mechanist that exists right now. I mean, you need to pay attention to the patch notes; the mechanist build that getting nerfed on Aug 23rd isn't the one you are so offended by. 

It's also clear you don't understand what Anet's sensitivity to stacking means. It has nothing to do with popularity. It's related to how effects across a spec have unintended results because of how those effects stack. Confusion, barrier and alacrity stack on non-power rifle mechanist builds without consequence to the build itself. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Karagee.6830]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, you can think what you like. That's actually the least problematic thing about mechanist that exists right now. 

Well, you can think what you like. It's something they appear to say they will focus on since it's almost certain that dps mechanists outnumber Virtuoso (another easy and largely ranged spec) by a significant margin. So if they focus on the ACTUAL pug meta then dps mechanist in it's current form will be the first to go.

After all they just buffed autoattacks on a bunch of classes, so there is no need for Mechanist to dominate the meta because it provides something easy to use, when they made (in their eyes) a lot of other classes much easier to use for mouse clickers.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

It's something they appear to say they will focus on since it's almost certain that dps mechanists outnumber Virtuoso (another easy and largely ranged spec) by a significant margin. So if they focus on the ACTUAL pug meta then dps mechanist in it's current form will be the first to go.

After all they just buffed autoattacks on a bunch of classes, so there is no need for Mechanist to dominate the meta because it provides something easy to use, when they made (in their eyes) a lot of other classes much easier to use for mouse clickers.

Maybe ... but I see what's happening in the Aug 23 patch, I see a bunch of new players INC to the game via STEAM, I see Anet wanting wider range of people to integrate to endgame content. Those things don't point to power rifle being nerfed. 

I mean, I get it ... you've convinced yourself of something. That's OK. Reality will fix.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Karagee.6830]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Maybe ... but I see what's happening in the patch, I see a bunch of new players INC to the game via STEAM, I see Anet wanting more people to integrate to endgame content. Those things don't point to power rifle being nerfed. 

If new players coming with Steam will be told to reroll engineer, level again 1->80 and also buy EoD to play raids...I don't see many sticking around. Therefore, it's a very real problem and it points clearly to Mech being nerfed and core (which core weapons' skills are part of) being buffed (not for Engi, unlike everyone else, they already got their buffs nearly 2 months ago)

Edited August 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

If new players coming with Steam will be told to reroll engineer, level again 1->80 and also buy EoD to play raids...I don't see many sticking around. Therefore, it's a very real problem and it points clearly to Mech being nerfed and core (which core weapons' skills are part of) being buffed

That's OK ... you are going to tell me why I'm wrong because you rubbed your crystal ball to prophesize the doom of the game because of power rifle mechanist ...

... all the while the reality is that power rifle exists, wasn't nerfed in the most recent patch while the mechanist builds that are actually being stacked were hit with nerfs.  

It's all good. We believe you. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Karagee.6830]

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's OK ... you are going to tell me why I'm wrong because you rubbed your crystal ball to prophesize the doom of the game because of power rifle mechanist ...

... all the while the reality is that power rifle exists, wasn't nerfed when Anet had the opportunity to do so while nerfing the mechanist builds that are actually being stacked. 

It's all good.

If you think power dps mech isn't being stacked in pugs and average level groups you are either playing another game or are completely delusional.

They haven't addressed it because they hope that buffing everyone else will sort this out, but everyone knows, this isn't going to happen. They have been shooting at random with this patch hoping that something sticks. When mechanist goes from 26% to 20% largely because of a reduction in the number of people playing the heal support build and the dps stacking remains intact, then they will act.

It also beggars belief that they did this experiment with Engineer, the single least picked specialisation of all time, especially for new players. I guarantee the majority of the steam players will not pick engi and will pick up warrior, elementalist, ranger etc instead. Normal classes that are a staple in MMOs and people can understand from a lore a design standpoint. And while Elementalist might be ok, and ranger is probably ok, I wanna see these people realise they have to play some weird spec in bladesworn or play with bow, arrow and torch as a warrior in endgame content. The warrior changes are further proof they aren't well aware of what they are doing.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

If you think power dps mech isn't being stacked in pugs and average level groups you are either playing another game or are completely delusional.

You don't understand what stacking is. It's not simply the result of lots of mechanists in teams. It's related to how certain effects have multiplicative effects between the class being stacked. Power rifle mechanist doesn't have that. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Karagee.6830]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You don't understand what stacking is. 

You don't understand what stacking is. 

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Karagee.6830 said:

You don't understand what stacking is. 

It's too bad you don't ... you would have a better understanding of why Anet are making the changes they are ... and are not making ... to mechanist on Aug 23rd. 

[Karagee.6830]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It's too bad you don't ... you would have a better understanding of why Anet are making the changes they are ... and are not making ... to mechanist on Aug 23rd. 

I explained to you why they haven't...yet. Try re-reading the comments and I'm sure you will understand.

And yeah having 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 dps mechanists (on top of the 1-2 support mechanists) is not stacking. I agree.

11 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

They haven't addressed it because they hope that buffing everyone else will sort this out, but everyone knows, this isn't going to happen. They have been shooting at random with this patch hoping that something sticks. When mechanist goes from 26% to 20% largely because of a reduction in the number of people playing the heal support build and the dps stacking remains intact, then they will act.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

Double post

Edited August 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

I explained to you why they haven't...yet. Try re-reading the comments and I'm sure you will understand.

And yeah having 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 dps mechanists (on top of the 1-2 support mechanists) is not stacking. I agree.

Yeah I know ... crystal ball working overtime ... I understand, I just don't trust your crystal ball. I have no reason to think your imagination on the future is any better than anyone else's. ON the other hand, you can look at what is real if you ACTUALLY want to have some valid insight to how Anet thinks. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Karagee.6830]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yeah I know ... crystal ball working overtime ... I understand, I just don't trust your crystal ball. 

Well if you don't want to listen to common sense from multiple people on the forums what can we do? We'll see you in the next patch Obtena. One of us will be right surely, because either mech dps stays the same/is buffed or it is nerfed. So unless they greatly buff all other classes AGAIN and substantially to provide equally performing afk builds or a nerf is definitely coming to reduce the weight of mechanist in the pug meta.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830