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Spoilers, too many in-game spoilers for new players.


Psycho.2347

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Hi,
(Spoilers ahead, obviously)

Even though I created my characters at launch, I am a new player, only started playing last month and one thing that really stood out for me in this game as an issue so far, are the many built-in spoilers.
When I play a game with many chapters in the story, I like to read through the titles on the wikis, just to get a scope on the whole thing, and usually for most games it gives me a vague idea, like here there's the race stories, the main campaign undead, next expansion will be jungle, next desert, next iceland, etc.
But as I am reading through the quest titles I see stuff like "Eirs memorial in Hoelbrak" and I'm like, "Huhh, guess who's gonna die in the jungle?" Thanks game!
and I can already hear everyone loosing their kitten over the devs having to do nothing with wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Story_Journal (even though on the wiki lists the in-game quest titles and my point is that the quest title is spoilery regardless of the 3rd party website)
Then anyone who's past living world season 1, should be thinking that Scarlet's dead.
But the latest story content is called "Scarlet's war" and that's not even the wiki, that's right inside the story journal in-game.
Then I am browsing minis and I see "Mini Braham Champion of Primordius"
And at this point I am scared to look at any more basic features of this game before finishing the story.

For the minis, you could blur out stuff, put a spoiler warning, and reveal button with confirmation for the stuff that's not been completed for the character's story journal.
And for the story quests, I don't know who decides what the titles will be, but I can't believe nobody saw 'Eirs memorial in Hoelbrak' and didn't think that might be a spoiler for new players.
And that's not the only one, most quest titles are just a blatant short summary of what happens in them, like destroying destroyers, where you indeed go and destroy destroyers.
"The Road to Rata Primus" Gee I wonder it we will ever discover another Asura city and journey there.
Honestly the band called Pound names their songs more creatively than you your quests, and their song titles are literally the notes that they are playing.

PS.: Monetizing your game by cutting out the middle part of your story and sell it as chunks also might not be the greatest idea. Because of it I've played half of this game on youtube so far.
When I bought the 'All expansions collection' I was expecting to get all expansions. Apparently the living worlds are not expansions, they were there at launch, you just didn't notice them.

Edited by Psycho.2347
typo
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Not really a big deal though. There is stuff like with Eir - where it is  obvious that only players that have already experienceced her death ... will be at this chapter. Unless they try to inform themselves about later stuff - where you naturally would have to expect spoilers then.

The Braham mini in the wardrobe seems like a bigger thing. Then again: They could just have made it "for fun". New players won't actually know if this really is going to happen - with this just being a mini.

But seriously: There isn't really anything huge/interesting - like in a crime fiction story were you might not want to know the murderer - the spoilers are not so much of a big deal here. (The writing is pretty mediocre.) Might be a bigger thing that there is Aurene in the EotN/HoM ... and new people might straight to there for some strike missions. + the game is advertising the latest content ... tryigng to get people actually into playing the latest story with skipping earlier stuff (when the latest story naturally has to refer to older stuff cause it builds up on it - not just some mission title).

So I doubt they'll change anything. Later stuff refering to earlier stuff is not spoiler imo. If it was supposed to be accessed later. (Like the story where peole can chose to start directly with later stuff at theit own risk.)

The mini - as I said - a different thing.

The living world story thing - has been criticized a lot. Some people claim "you need to inform myself". Others say - and I agree with that - ArenaNet is pretty misleading here. At least should have offered different bundles. (Always offering the expansions with the stuff leading to them that you might not yet have - considering you have bought the previous expansions. Meaning: bundling S4 and Icebrood with EoD, bundling S3 with PoF and bundling S2 with Hot. Not ... PoF+HoT but not any story seasons included.)

Edited by Luthan.5236
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But you are not the first one who says the writing is mediocre.
I sincerely disagree. Yes, if you frame it in a way like "GW2 is a game about fighting dragons that wants to destroy the world"
That does sound boring. But the support characters and the dynamics between them, the voice acting, I could pick any banther between Canach or Rhytlock or Braham/Rox/Taimi and most of the writing shines there.
Also, own character has a personality and I enjoy it more than I did the constant nodding in FF14.
There's the lore, like the Sylvari, the geographic changes, all the different kingdoms, people, and culture. the lesser races etc. Its good stuff, comparing to WOW, FF14, Warframe, Star Citizen, WH40k, Star wars(the good ones) Forgotten realms books, BDO, Any Bioware game ever, I'd say the story is great, simplistic, with great presentation.

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31 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

The solution is: Don't do that.

Wow, thank you for the input, you are so helpful! I didn't realize until you've blessed me with your infinite wisdom that I could simply just not care about it, Why didn't I think of that before? I don't even know what to say, just, Thank you! You are truly the best. What a legend.

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Just pointing out that the newest story (season 1) isn't technically new, just being rereleased after some modifications were made. It's a bit complicated, but after the initial release years ago, it wasn't playable again til now. So the Scarlet spoiler you mentioned isn't a spoiler. It's just old story content that people are only gaining access to again this year. I know writing this isn't really responding to the core of your initial post, but I thought you'd like to know anyway :). 

 

As for spoilers in general, while I understand the issue, the unfortunate truth is that anything that has been out for awhile (books, tv shows, movies, games, etc) that you only just started is likely going to get spoiled for you unless  you put your blinders on and actively avoid anything that could contain spoilers. And sometimes despite your best efforts it gets spoiled anyway. It would be nice if this wasn't the case, but such is life. I hope even with spoilers you continue to enjoy the game. 

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4 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Then again: They could just have made it "for fun". New players won't actually know if this really is going to happen

I thought about it too, but it won't it help not being a spoiler.
Even if I assume it might be for just for fun, and maybe it doesn't happen. If there's a revelation that it actually did happen, it won't have the same surprise feeling. 
And to solve this it would only require to put a spoiler filter on these items before you get them. and a setting in the menu to turn it on/off.

just an idea, no need to throw stones. I'm just letting devs and other players this was my experience, how could it havwe been better.
to change spoilery text in game too should be an easy fix if you know a little coding, a script that runs through all databases and changes the text "Eir's Memorial in Hoelbrak" to "Memorial in Hoelbrak" is something even I could probably do in a couple hours.

and once again, this is merely new player feedback, that says the quest titles are a little bit too telling. the miniatures especially, and there's absolutely no reason for new players to see some minis.
The whole quest title issue to me seems like an amateur writers mistake, just poor writing. When I know its not the case, I quite enjoyed the story's presentation so far. So it would be a shame if someone before even playing the game did a bit of wiki research, and saw these titles. (and believe it or not there's a lot of people out there who do, especially the ones who played many different mmo's before, just think of how many mmos out there have bad tutorials or new player experience, and needs you to constantly be on the wiki)
IMO a title should be telling, but not quite literally the whole story.
Just imagine if the Lord of the Rings was actually called: A short dude road-tripping to a volcano, with his totally not gay friend to destroy an evil ring, while chased by an evil overlord's minions.

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13 minutes ago, NovaleePhoenix.1259 said:

I hope even with spoilers you continue to enjoy the game. 

I absolutely do.
I am comparing it to the other Giants like FF14, WoW, Warframe,
And the way GW2 is presented, I am enjoying the story more than I did Shadowbringers.
From what I hear in the RPG circles is that some people prefer quality writing, some the voice acting.
Most devs need to choose between one or the other, and if they choose voice acting usually the writing suffers.
Here the story is basic, yes, but there's a lot of effort put into the voice actors, and visuals, music, lore.
So I'd say I am actually for story presentation, and small-talk between relatable characters > massively complicated grandiose, and actually mediocre light vs darkness stories. I'm not shitting on FF14 either, but the consant nodding of the main character and the daily 1h 45m unskippable cutscenes were a bit too much for my liking 😄

Here I like my little tree-guy. He's cool.

Edited by Psycho.2347
bla bla bla
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Reading the titles of every story chapter way ahead of time on the wiki is not normal

Thats a ridiculous critique

You are deliberately searching and reading story content spoilers before you are at that point of the story and then blaming anet for spoilers, it makes no sense.

If you were playing the game as normal and not digging deep into the story wiki pages ahead of where you are you would know about Eir's fate WAY before that story chapters name reveals itself in game, in fact im pretty sure the specific story steps like that cant even be seen in the story journal until you have done them

Edited by Kayberz.5346
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1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I'll note that certain skins aren't even in preview in wardrobe until you unlock them, though it doesn't apply to minis.

One he mentioned above is available at the trading post though. The mini with Braham. Checked that one on the wiki cause I wanted to see how it is obtained. (If this was only later at some vendor then people playing in order of release could avoid this before getting there.)

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12 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

and then blaming anet for spoilers

I said the quest titles are too telling. and that there are many in-game spoilers in different form. That DID in fact affect my SUBJECTIVE new player experience.

Can we please stop the 'just stop using the wiki' replies? You are not contributing in any meaningful way.

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ArenaNet is pretty terrible with spoilers, let's be honest. The only time I can think of them taking into consideration spoilers, would be the Soo-Won Dye Kit, originally being named [REDACTED] Dye Kit for a month or two.

 

But to be frank, things like the titles of story missions or miniatures are usually things you'll have to go digging to find. The ones you can be easiest exposed to are those in update notes and news posts. Let's face it, you go through the wiki (which, btw, is not maintained by the devs - it's all by the players and if you have issues with wiki articles is better brought up on the wiki itself, each article has talk pages and a "Leave Feedback" tab right up top) - digression, but if you go through the  wiki, you're bound to find spoilers. Usually they're tagged at the top with their spoiler template, though it does seem that the Story Journal page is missing it (well, not any more, I've just added it).

 

1 hour ago, Psycho.2347 said:

IDK, the story step names are pretty spoiler sounding to me. And there's no spoiler tag on that article. But again, wikis are not maintained by developers.

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15 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

not maintained by the devs

100% correct.
What is also true is that the wiki and all 3rd party sites will include the names of the quest titles. Now who decides on the quest titles, the devs, or the 3rd party sites?

I am not sure why you'd consider playing the game and looking at minis as 'go digging to' though.
You are just looking at basic features already available to your character.
Nor is looking at this while I am playing the 'Party politics quest'
https://i.imgur.com/P8tNSOY.png

Edited by Psycho.2347
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first: you already know that the wiki is done by players. so to avoid spoilers, don't read the story pages (including the chapter title lists) in the wiki. WIKI is a word that screams "spoilers." besides, before games and internet and wikis, back "when i was your age, television was called books" (Princess Bride quote), and books had chapter names for their chapters, and it was common knowledge that reading those chapter names too far in advance could spoil the story. and if you read the chapter names in advance and thereby spoiled the story, it was understood that IT WAS YOUR OWN FAULT.

second: i agree: the episode names should NOT spoil the plot of the story, BUT there's only so far that idea will go before limiting yourself to naming each chapter as only "chapter 45", "chapter 46", "chapter 47", etc. Some would argue that chapter names like  "A Journey's End" shouldn't exist, because they're spoilery and ridiculous. (even though that chapter name spoiled less than the marketing did)

~keep in mind that there's a difference between 1) spoiling something with the title "Logan's Death" and 2) remembering after playing "chapter 46: The Hollow Skies" that Logan dies during the chapter (the plot points and chapter names in this bullet point do not exist in game.)

~Mini names are harder to to not spoil, since they're named after specific versions of characters /mobs that have different versions. maybe there could be a menu option feature that blurs out the name until after that character /mob /boss version is encountered in the story. until then, you KNOW that this could give spoilers. and still you look, and then complain about it.

~Zone names should also avoid story spoiler names: Dragon's Stand = Bad, Maguuma Coast = non spoiler. Dragon's End = bad,  Historic Jade Sea = non spoiler. look at Domain of Vabbi... it's a good name, and doesn't spoil the end of Path Of Fire, even though it's the zone of the expansion where the final chapter takes place. DragonStorm should have been called Anvil  Rock, after the location, and not after the the boss battle. that would be like renaming Dallas, Texas "JFK's End" or Eagle's Perch into "Hitler's Suicide" or France as "The Minefield" (after all the unexploded munitions abandoned after WW1)

TLDR: You read ahead. it's your fault for reading possible spoilers.

EDIT: TLDR 2: I'm not opposed to better, non spoilery chapter / zone names and not opposed to menu options to blur Mini names until encountered in-game

Edited by Forgotten Legend.9281
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1 hour ago, Psycho.2347 said:

100% correct.
What is also true is that the wiki and all 3rd party sites will include the names of the quest titles. Now who decides on the quest titles, the devs, or the 3rd party sites?

I am not sure why you'd consider playing the game and looking at minis as 'go digging to' though.
You are just looking at basic features already available to your character.
Nor is looking at this while I am playing the 'Party politics quest'
https://i.imgur.com/P8tNSOY.png

Digging through miniatures is more than just "playing the game" though, it's looking through unlocked future content.

And again, the wiki is not up to the devs. They did not create that page, they did not create that template, and it is on you for looking at a page that very blatantly has content about the future story.

The wiki - all wikis - are a "use at your own risk".

Playing Party Politics and staying in-game will not risk you seeing later story step names.

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4 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Digging through miniatures is more than just "playing the game" though, it's looking through unlocked future content.

Yep. If a new release drops and you go through the minis, you'll often get a hint of what's in the new area. But that is completely on the player for doing so lol. I know people who don't even look ingame at the mini page until they've done the content for that reason.

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If you really want to go spoiler free, don't look at the Wiki/Forums/Social Media about the game. Don't look ahead at mini names, achievements, or future story chapter titles that will likely be spoilery. Turn off all chats. If you do any of that, it's on you if you get spoiled because of your own curiosity (I've definitely fallen for that temptation at times tbh).

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