August 23 Balance Update Preview For Elementalist

[Henrik.7560]

Sorry aNet, but may i remind you how hard you butchered this class over the years with ridiculous nerfs cutting the damage on key skills by HALF, these small buffs are not going to be enough especially with how buffed up other professions are. You need to undo the awful meteor sprinkle changes that ONLY elementalist seemed to receive.

 

 

[DaKillaOfHell.5907]

Just take a look at other classes using staff. Especially attack speed.

 

Necromancer staff? Almost as dead as elementalist, except for laying traps in some certain environments.

Guardian staff? Plays a role in some AoE-based scenarios with AA but mostly used for might buff.

Revenant staff? Druid Staff? Almost nothing to say about.

 

Thief staff? Already very strong (not as strong as mech though), and gets buffed again. Attack speed is extremely high.

 

Mesmer staff? Is the only one being a bit comparable to elementalist, however, class mechanics with clones make up for more than that.

 

Overall, staff became a weapon that's either already very strong or downright ridiculously useless.

Buffing the numbers won't cut it, especially with the AAs being that slow. 

[Jski.6180]

The current joke is anet will not nerf gurd in wvw because no other classes in wvw have stab / stun brake support even though they are giving tempest stab/stun brake support but in pve only hehe. Even if it did carry over into wvw 1 stack of stab kind of worthless i have no ideal if 1 stack of stab has any worth in pve at all.

[draxynnic.3719]

15 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

The current joke is anet will not nerf gurd in wvw because no other classes in wvw have stab / stun brake support even though they are giving tempest stab/stun brake support but in pve only hehe. Even if it did carry over into wvw 1 stack of stab kind of worthless i have no ideal if 1 stack of stab has any worth in pve at all.

Yeah, they need to add more stability options in WvW so that firebrand can be toned down there without it becoming "we need to make up for the lost stability, stack more firebrands".

Incidentally, mesmer feedback resulted in a philosophy shift which might carry through to some elementalist nerfs being reverted in the future: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/119412-august-23-balance-update-preview/page/23/?tab=comments#comment-1735098

 

[soulknight.9620]

5 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Incidentally, mesmer feedback resulted in a philosophy shift which might carry through to some elementalist nerfs being reverted in the future: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/119412-august-23-balance-update-preview/page/23/?tab=comments#comment-1735098

Elementalists were saying this for years. Noone listened. Now a few mesmers cried - changed the phylosophy. Lol.

Jokes aside, i hope they do a good job in future releases to rebalance ele a bit based on this phylosophy. If that is not a "close steam release" fluff then im happy with the direction balance is headed.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

On 8/18/2022 at 11:14 AM, Henrik.7560 said:

Sorry aNet, but may i remind you how hard you butchered this class over the years with ridiculous nerfs cutting the damage on key skills by HALF, these small buffs are not going to be enough especially with how buffed up other professions are. You need to undo the awful meteor sprinkle changes that ONLY elementalist seemed to receive.

 

 

Good to see that A-net also pushed this "feature" onto other classes like Necromancer & Chronomancer Wells, Rangers Rapid Fire and Barrage, Guardian Spirit Weapons and DH traps and many more.
It's not a bias guys, it's just a good business. 👋🤡

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Elementalists were saying this for years. Noone listened. Now a few mesmers cried - changed the phylosophy. Lol.

Jokes aside, i hope they do a good job in future releases to rebalance ele a bit based on this phylosophy. If that is not a "close steam release" fluff then im happy with the direction balance is headed.

I think it's less because it was mesmers crying - mesmers have taken a few hard hits over the years as well - but more because after the massive backlash a month or so ago, more scrutiny is being applied to what the balance team is doing and how the players are responding to it.

The hopeful thing is the part about looking back at some of the nerfs that had been applied in the past as a result of balancing according to ideal circumstances. Heck, it's big that it's even been acknowledged that was what was happening.

[AliamRationem.5172]

Hopefully this will translate into a reimagining of balance which accounts for difficulty of play as opposed to favoring ease of play.  Weaver could use a bit of whatever that mechanist dev is smoking. 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

To me all this work and effort on the devs part was done in vain. I do not care about pve damage and numbers. Hay developers where's the pvp side of things on this update? In hell? Does hell have to freeze over for it to get consistent updates?

Edited August 19, 2022 by Eddbopkins.2630

[Jski.6180]

15 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Yeah, they need to add more stability options in WvW so that firebrand can be toned down there without it becoming "we need to make up for the lost stability, stack more firebrands".

Incidentally, mesmer feedback resulted in a philosophy shift which might carry through to some elementalist nerfs being reverted in the future: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/119412-august-23-balance-update-preview/page/23/?tab=comments#comment-1735098

 

I am of the mind they just need to give all classes "good" self stab effects and ability. A kind of take care of your self from hard cc with some support stab to help fill in but in no way should support stab be any stronger then self stab. Less of bring more FB but ask your group to run more self stab. Something that is missing in the wvw environment atm the ability for classes to adapted to a fight in-between fights in an real way with out leaving a meta or near meta build.

AoE being viable of use the dream of the ele class!

I like to see Flame Expulsion not eat the might on the ele but simply copy 10 stacks to others.

[Suyheuti.1732]

On 8/19/2022 at 1:03 PM, soulknight.9620 said:

Elementalists were saying this for years. Noone listened. Now a few mesmers cried - changed the phylosophy. Lol.

Jokes aside, i hope they do a good job in future releases to rebalance ele a bit based on this phylosophy. If that is not a "close steam release" fluff then im happy with the direction balance is headed.

 

I dont think it is about mesmer cries. Leaks of devs chat made this. 

I dont know you are familiar with mesmer but mirages nerf will make mirage as completely garbage spec. Everyone agreed with that. That was the right call. 

I'm not pro ele player. My main is mesmer. Thanks to having full legy set, I'm trying to enjoy ele as well. It is fun actually. So I'm familiar with ele problems. I have been playing all 3 specs, as far I noticed, I like to be fair as well, the top dps spec in game should be weaver especially condi version by far. Pure dps spec, extremely hard to play, even if weaver did over 45k dps on golem, I wouldn't complain, because class complexity and being melee continuously requires the highest reward. If someone can do that, I respect. 2nd should be catalyst at that list. Tempest can be 7th 10th,  I dont care, it is quite easy to play comparing to catalyst and weaver. 

 

[zeyeti.8347]

They are reversing mirages nerf so you just know Suyheuti . For meteor shower they should just get rid off the damage and make food rain instead of fireballs , why not meatballs , like the animated movie , so the boss will start eating those , get fat and have a heart attack and gg !!! Then anet will nerf it and transform those meatball into soja cakes !

No,  more serioulsy , they just have to make this aoe less rng , a thing like every 2 secondes a meteor hit one of the target in the aoe and deal less cleave damage (like 33% of the base damage) and also why not add a stun on the first hit , those are meteors right ? If a windblast like "gale" skill knock a target , then a freaking meteor should make it go underground !

Edited August 21, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[zeyeti.8347]

On 8/19/2022 at 11:09 PM, Jski.6180 said:

I like to see Flame Expulsion not eat the might on the ele but simply copy 10 stacks to others.

That has to be one of the weirdest trait of all the game , what is the purpose of that skill ? give might to allies ? well play tempest then . Deal damage ? yeah nice by getting you rid off 10 stacks of might .... , this is one of the traits they need to completely rework , change it's purpose , as for the moment it has none.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

That has to be one of the weirdest trait of all the game , what is the purpose of that skill ? give might to allies ? well play tempest then . Deal damage ? yeah nice by getting you rid off 10 stacks of might .... , this is one of the traits they need to completely rework , change it's purpose , as for the moment it has none.

Yeah, I really don't understand why it needs to remove might stacks from the elementalist.  Just another example of elementalist playing under a completely different set of design rules.

[DaKillaOfHell.5907]

2 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

That has to be one of the weirdest trait of all the game , what is the purpose of that skill ? give might to allies ? well play tempest then . Deal damage ? yeah nice by getting you rid off 10 stacks of might .... , this is one of the traits they need to completely rework , change it's purpose , as for the moment it has none.

 

The whole trait system doesn't make much sense in this way.

Almost all of the traits are mechanic-focused, while barely any trait is role-focused. This is in stark contrast to many other classes where there are many traits being viable not only for the mechanics but overall performance as well.

Just look at the rest of the fire trait line, which should be the main dps trait line: Almost all of it is concentrated to or about fire attunement and conjured weapons, there is barely anything helping you in general, however, you have to have some certain points for it to work. The same goes for every other trait line, some have decent buffs, but no clear design to everything.

 

Instead, it would make a lot more sense to change the skill performance based on the trait line you pick. You use fire trait line? All skills get more damage. You use water? Your overall heal output gets increased, fire gets cleansing conditions,  earth offers stability, lightning gives fury/speed buffs. It doesn't even have to have a long duration, but it would make sure that you switch to other elements than the one you have put trait points in, unlike now. This would really make a difference, though it would be harder to balance as well.

[pallas.8150]

On 8/16/2022 at 3:05 PM, Skelly.2867 said:

Hooray for finally giving the staff update I've been asking for for years! see signature

Just... I've a lot of gripes about it.

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If all you were going to do is nothing but up damage numbers, why didn't you do this in the first June patch? Like seriously Anet. Or even the last update. And I personally don't understand why the core weapon buffs weren't in the June patch to begin with. To me it seems dumb. There's probably some programming/coding behind the scenes or priorities or something I don't know so can't accurately comment on because I don't know what actually is going on with the dev team, but if you want my frank 2cents? Its frustrating. And its really, really hard to empathize.

That aside... damage numbers I don't think are staff's only problem. Casting time is another, isn't it? Are they just going to wait and see if the damage numbers fix it before they look at skills and other parts of Ele's toolkit or is this going to be a one time thing and never heard from again?

These changes were not in the June patch because, honestly, real balance wasn't a concern of the team at the time. I would recommend digging into past threads about the how's and why's.

There was a HUGE public outcry, and its only by that which we are seeing updated changes. I think moving forward the team is going to tread VERY carefully on ensuring more attention is being paid to all professions, not just a handful.

[BlueRaVeN.9135]

honestly what they need to do is take away the out dated and quite frankly poorly conceived notion that ele cant weapon swap during combat. With all the elite specs it doesn’t give a significant advantage even though there was never an advantage with it to begin. almost all classes enjoy the luxury of switching between range and melee, but no ele cannot have that forbidden fruit. since ele players are probably good pianist y not gove em a full ranged piano

Edited August 21, 2022 by BlueRaVeN.9135

[draxynnic.3719]

7 hours ago, BlueRaVeN.9135 said:

 almost all classes enjoy the luxury of switching between range and melee, but no ele cannot have that forbidden fruit. 

Hammer is tantalisingly close, but they ruined it by being stingy with range, making skill 3 dependent on cycling through all attunements (and therefore through the melee attunements), and then making fire skill 5 melee for good measure.

[Stallic.2397]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Hammer is tantalisingly close, but they ruined it by being stingy with range, making skill 3 dependent on cycling through all attunements (and therefore through the melee attunements), and then making fire skill 5 melee for good measure.

 

It should've been a 900 range short bow, now that I look at catalyst and see what they were going for. 

 

Short bow would jump in and out of melee/range. Anytime in melee, water and earth would use the short bow like a staff. Fire and air full range with knock backs and leaps. 

[Avatara.1042]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Hammer is tantalisingly close, but they ruined it by being stingy with range, making skill 3 dependent on cycling through all attunements (and therefore through the melee attunements), and then making fire skill 5 melee for good measure.

So not close at all...

[draxynnic.3719]

42 minutes ago, Avatara.1042 said:

So not close at all...

Closer than you might think. Extend the ranges of fire and air skills (including Molten End, but not Wind Storm) to 900. Maybe extend the duration of the orb skills a touch more so it's easier to bounce between Air and Fire while keeping at least one of the orbs up. The earth and water orbs are defensive in nature, so you don't need them as much if you're at a distance.