Alliances and lopsided coverage and dominant green

[Crazy.6029]

Logged on this morning, couldn't get in yesterday, and what I saw was lopsided coverage. I was on red, and green was pretty much dominating. 

I know this doesn't change much or anything, but wasn't the whole point of this to create equal coverage?

It felt just like edge of the mists on WvW maps. I was never a fan of anything edge of the mists, that place always felt like pve noob heaven.

The thing is I felt like I lost the server community and got stuck with a bunch of noobs, which is fine because everybody has to learn but does this mean that every time they switch the match ups, it is training time again or just watch endless silly mistakes? How does this benefit the veteran players and steady wvw player base even though I'm still seeing lopsided coverage?

I just don't see how this is going to help anything for WvW except to give the feeling of randomness. 

I'm going to make a prediction here and I hope I am wrong, but I think this will be the new shiny in the beginning like EoTM was and then, it will absolutely DIE and be reduced to nothing. Anet, please trash this idea and just open up the servers again. Stop strangling servers and preventing new players from coming into full servers so that guilds can recruit properly. I mean with queues and lag and lopsided coverage; we literally have gained nothing and lost server identity.

I guess it's just like it always was, but without server community feeling. Sorry to all those that like it, just put me in the " No Thanks', category.

[Gorani.7205]

I came on this morning, kind of feeling I "was the green side" of your experience. But unlike the last beta, I was prepared:
This time, I joined up with a big guild with interest in WvW. When I logged in, I wasn't alone with other lost people. I saw a member of my guild (yes, I actually was put on the same alliance with them this time) commanding and joined the squad (and was granted participation as a scout & roamer). I switched in and out of the role of roamer (flipping small stuff on the perimeter of the squad, which attacked the big stuff) and joined the larger group to provide supply for building siege. I had a few 1v1 encounters, which sometimes went well for me and sometimes not.

Last time, I kind of felt like you Crazy. I did not recognize anyone on the map and was left with unreliable allies. Although the appearance of squad members & guildies as dots on the map seems to be broken completely, I had a small community I could work with on a tactical and strategic level.

Is being in a big WvW guild the only way to enjoy Alliances? I really hope not. Server community feeling is something that is already hit hard by current server match-ups changing & transfers. I don't want the majority of less organized and casual WvW players to feel what Crazy is feeling after his experience yesterday.

[Ronin.4501]

2 hours ago, Crazy.6029 said:

Logged on this morning, couldn't get in yesterday, and what I saw was lopsided coverage. I was on red, and green was pretty much dominating. 

I know this doesn't change much or anything, but wasn't the whole point of this to create equal coverage?

It felt just like edge of the mists on WvW maps. I was never a fan of anything edge of the mists, that place always felt like pve noob heaven.

The thing is I felt like I lost the server community and got stuck with a bunch of noobs, which is fine because everybody has to learn but does this mean that every time they switch the match ups, it is training time again or just watch endless silly mistakes? How does this benefit the veteran players and steady wvw player base even though I'm still seeing lopsided coverage?

I just don't see how this is going to help anything for WvW except to give the feeling of randomness. 

I'm going to make a prediction here and I hope I am wrong, but I think this will be the new shiny in the beginning like EoTM was and then, it will absolutely DIE and be reduced to nothing. Anet, please trash this idea and just open up the servers again. Stop strangling servers and preventing new players from coming into full servers so that guilds can recruit properly. I mean with queues and lag and lopsided coverage; we literally have gained nothing and lost server identity.

I guess it's just like it always was, but without server community feeling. Sorry to all those that like it, just put me in the " No Thanks', category.

The thing is, Anet DID balance the populations for the beta; they just didn't balance the skill level and/or organizational skills of the players involved. There were several guilds who formed "alliance beta" guilds so that they would all be together for this beta, and conversely there were a lot of players who didn't organize and/or select a guild prior to the beta, so they all got assigned randomly. And naturally the organized group is far more likely to dominate the unorganized group. Furthermore, just because the populations are balanced, it doesn't guarantee that everyone from each server will be logged in at all times to ensure a complete and total balance amongst the servers/shards during this beta.

[enkidu.5937]

Don't worry, 3

2 hours ago, Crazy.6029 said:

I was on red, and green was pretty much dominating. 

 

I know this doesn't change much or anything, but wasn't the whole point of this to create equal coverage?

Equal coverage distributed over the whole week yes 😝

 

So don't worry, 2 hours later red was totally dominating green and blue, making the match balanced and even again. 😏

[Dayra.7405]

2 hours ago, Crazy.6029 said:

wasn't the whole point of this to create equal coverage?

Equal coverage in overal manpower, but unfortunately this doesn’t cannot mean balance at all times, but rather each side has its dominating phases.

That of course is also caused by the fact that people like to play when they win, resulting in winners getting stronger and losers weaker.

So whatever ANet does to generate overal balance (how successful they were in that we will see on Friday comparing the overal scores), balance at all times would only possible with short (2-3h) matches, not with weekly matches.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Dayra.7405

[Crazy.6029]

This is EoTM 2.0 and the death of server community. Alliances will probably kill this game mode. Scrap this and just focus on a few new maps and some decent rewards for winning. Open the servers, ALL of them. Let the guilds recruit. Give GOOD REWARDS and a few new maps. 

Fix the boon ball.  Take all boons and put them in to 3 categories.  1.) offensive boons 2.) defensive boons 3.) restorative boons. This way it isn't one boon rip, corrupt or conversion kills them all. This way it takes thought but also some counter play to this mess of boon ball. Balance the classes to handle different boons removal, JUST LIKE THE APPLICATIONS of them. This would help the game, not EoTM 2.0 dead server communities. 

Look, it is fine, we were desperate, and we wanted something different from the same old thing, so we asked for anything, but what the wvw community really needed was some attention in general. 

Alliances are a bad idea imo.

[Chaba.5410]

It's equalized playhours, not coverage.  They have said they'd look at other matchmaking variables in the future.  They haven't said that's in this beta though.

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 minute ago, Chaba.5410 said:

It's equalized playhours, not coverage.  They have said they'd look at other matchmaking variables in the future.  They haven't said that's in this beta though.

I gave the thanks, but I think we are preaching to deaf ears.  There are people who will mis represent what World Restructuring is, because it’s going to disrupt their comfy world that they are not willing to truly join. 
 

But you are correct, time zones may be looked at in the future.  It just isn’t now.

[Riba.3271]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

They have said they'd look at other matchmaking variables in the future.  They haven't said that's in this beta though.

Honestly, looking at their late track record, they rarely change things after release. Supply costs, upgrade times, siege vs siege damage, claim buff, most tactics, dolyak escort buff haven't been touched since release. They wasted all their time fixing desert map (that is only 1 map out of 4 and most unpopular) and dragon banner. Shield gens still do same as before. Even linking system is mess with same problems since release.

 

Once alliances are out, I expect them to pull whole WvW team (1 guy?) off it. They're just too lazy to touch anything else than skill balance or rewards.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Riba.3271

[Chaba.5410]

6 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

Honestly, looking at their late track record, they rarely change things after release. Supply costs, upgrade times, siege vs siege damage, claim buff, most tactics, dolyak escort buff haven't been touched since release. They wasted all their time fixing desert map (that is only 1 map out of 4 and most unpopular) and dragon banner. Shield gens still do same as before. Even linking system is mess with same problems since release.

 

Once alliances are out, I expect them to pull whole WvW team (1 guy?) off it. They're just too lazy to touch anything else than skill balance or rewards.

Let me clarify, "in the future" didn't mean after release necessarily.

[Sahne.6950]

Personally speaking:

i am on Gunnarshold, we are currently linked with WSR and previously we were linked with FSP.

We are completly stomping T1 since a few weeks and every map is flooded with roamers from our server.

For the last few weeks i had exactly 0 content. we are so overpopulated its not even funny.

It was so bad i started playing rankedpvp 🤢

HOWEVER, this weeks beta is the most fun i have had in probably a month. Finally there is enemys!

Edited August 15, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Kit.3798]

On 8/13/2022 at 5:18 PM, Ronin.4501 said:

The thing is, Anet DID balance the populations for the beta; they just didn't balance the skill level and/or organizational skills of the players involved. There were several guilds who formed "alliance beta" guilds so that they would all be together for this beta, and conversely there were a lot of players who didn't organize and/or select a guild prior to the beta, so they all got assigned randomly. And naturally the organized group is far more likely to dominate the unorganized group. Furthermore, just because the populations are balanced, it doesn't guarantee that everyone from each server will be logged in at all times to ensure a complete and total balance amongst the servers/shards during this beta.

Are you sure that Anet balanced the population because I kinda have to disagree. Fortune's Vale and Moogooloo get outnumbered by Grenth's Door at all time of the day. They're atleast double our size. We (Fortune's Vale) barely had any queue so far. Not even on the weekend at primetime.

[Ronin.4501]

8 hours ago, Kit.3798 said:

Are you sure that Anet balanced the population because I kinda have to disagree. Fortune's Vale and Moogooloo get outnumbered by Grenth's Door at all time of the day. They're atleast double our size. We (Fortune's Vale) barely had any queue so far. Not even on the weekend at primetime.

You do realize that the unbalanced population could be due to players on your server/shard decided not to show up.  Anet can allocate an even population across all three server/shards, but they can't force those players to actually play this week.  If you ended up on the server/shard that didn't coordinate beforehand and ended up with a lot of random/unguilded/(players who forgot to select a guild), there's a good chance a lot of those players simply decided to skip this week or go do something else.

[SFShinigami.1572]

10 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i am on Gunnarshold, we are currently linked with WSR and previously we were linked with FSP.

We are completly stomping T1 since a few weeks and every map is flooded with roamers from our server.

For the last few weeks i had exactly 0 content. we are so overpopulated its not even funny.

It was so bad i started playing rankedpvp 🤢

HOWEVER, this weeks beta is the most fun i have had in probably a month. Finally there is enemys!

 

It usually takes a few matchups for things to balance out.  Last link SFR/UW was dominant in T1 until deso got there.  The first weekend we had really good fights with them at night but by the last week SFR/UW was practically non-existent.

[Kit.3798]

15 hours ago, Ronin.4501 said:

You do realize that the unbalanced population could be due to players on your server/shard decided not to show up.  Anet can allocate an even population across all three server/shards, but they can't force those players to actually play this week.  If you ended up on the server/shard that didn't coordinate beforehand and ended up with a lot of random/unguilded/(players who forgot to select a guild), there's a good chance a lot of those players simply decided to skip this week or go do something else.

And you do realize that it could be just as I said? Also I am not quite sure why you always quote my posts and try to invalidate my experience with your overly positive attitude. I am happy that you enjoy the beta but please respect that there are people like me who don't. My server is well coordinated and yet we are not enough.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Kit.3798

[Reborn.2934]

On 8/13/2022 at 4:10 PM, Crazy.6029 said:

Logged on this morning, couldn't get in yesterday, and what I saw was lopsided coverage. I was on red, and green was pretty much dominating. 

I know this doesn't change much or anything, but wasn't the whole point of this to create equal coverage?

It felt just like edge of the mists on WvW maps. I was never a fan of anything edge of the mists, that place always felt like pve noob heaven.

The thing is I felt like I lost the server community and got stuck with a bunch of noobs, which is fine because everybody has to learn but does this mean that every time they switch the match ups, it is training time again or just watch endless silly mistakes? How does this benefit the veteran players and steady wvw player base even though I'm still seeing lopsided coverage?

I just don't see how this is going to help anything for WvW except to give the feeling of randomness. 

I'm going to make a prediction here and I hope I am wrong, but I think this will be the new shiny in the beginning like EoTM was and then, it will absolutely DIE and be reduced to nothing. Anet, please trash this idea and just open up the servers again. Stop strangling servers and preventing new players from coming into full servers so that guilds can recruit properly. I mean with queues and lag and lopsided coverage; we literally have gained nothing and lost server identity.

I guess it's just like it always was, but without server community feeling. Sorry to all those that like it, just put me in the " No Thanks', category.

 

yes guild alliances system is the EotM system on WvW maps and i reported it on this forums here but EotM map system was good idea to replace only the HOME borderlands to ensure that the guilds and their alliance guilds have an always available to play WvW map.

 

unfortunately they replaced with EotM system all maps and if this system remain as it is now the guilds will have problem to connect their guilds with a ... World = Server!

 

There is still room to make this system works but if WvWdevs don't say what is the real problem that want to solve (at least the queue on WvW maps didn't be solved as we saw) and what are the possibilities from their system, we will never have a system that makes happy all sides. 

 

Because i want to be fair to all sides that are playing WvW, the existent WvW system has many problems and for me one of the the biggest problems is that the siege builders don't see the name of their guild on the sieges they put if the sieges are not guild siege and it is something that i don't see on the guild alliances beta too... 

 

Advertise without represantation for big Guilds that claim Garrisons and Keeps but not for you small guild... sorry! 

 

if you still interest for a system that solves the queue problem i have write in my blog what we have asked before 9 years. i am sure my system is a working system since it is exactly like the existsent without the server's merging and it solves the queue problems because it extends the available maps, it is pairing the servers and creates equal pairs, it is a real alliance (not merging) and it brings something is what wvw guilds always wanted with gvg. a championship system.

p.s. i will make you remember now. Tell us that you never level up any alt on EotM please. ( i have 3 characters leveled up in EothM 😃 )

Edited August 16, 2022 by Reborn.2934

[eXistence.3876]

I for one will also miss the server identity. It is basically meaningless now. Queue the song "hello darkness my old friend..."

[Biermeister.4678]

Balance is way off still have not ran with main guild during beta week and yes I have checked the block,

The matchup I am in Red and green are very strong servers and have their organic guids Blue is just a bunch of random with two small WvW guilds that have played with duing links but they have no chance fighting large comped guilds when they outnumber you 3-1 

[Svarty.8019]

On 8/13/2022 at 3:12 PM, Gorani.7205 said:

Is being in a big WvW guild the only way to enjoy Alliances? I really hope not. Server community feeling is something that is already hit hard by current server match-ups changing & transfers. I don't want the majority of less organized and casual WvW players to feel what Crazy is feeling after his experience yesterday.

Despite the fact that  we see them standing in fields for one hour a week, Anet thought organised guilds were the "hardcore" players and worthy of being the main focus of the mode. The whole fiasco reinforces my opinion of their judgement. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Svarty.8019
Reason for edit

[Chaba.5410]

Remember when EOTM pulled away all the "casual" players from WvW until rewards there were nerfed?  We used to complain about that too.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 8/13/2022 at 9:10 AM, Crazy.6029 said:

I know this doesn't change much or anything, but wasn't the whole point of this to create equal coverage?

 

Not coverage, equal numbers. They said way back when they wouldn't be handling coverage at the onset. Might have missed them saying they figured that out, but that was an issue when the Alliance system was outlined. It will give the advantage to those that work to make sure they have coverage handled outside of the system doing so. But if you are seeing coverage issues, I would expect that in some cases.

[Sviel.7493]

On 8/15/2022 at 3:31 AM, Kit.3798 said:

Are you sure that Anet balanced the population because I kinda have to disagree. Fortune's Vale and Moogooloo get outnumbered by Grenth's Door at all time of the day. They're atleast double our size. We (Fortune's Vale) barely had any queue so far. Not even on the weekend at primetime.

I'm also in this match up.  It seems that Green has a full guild of active players (from MAG I hear).  Even if they technically don't have more bodies, they get a lot more activity out of those bodies.

Due to this, Blue has largely focused on hitting Red and Red has become demoralized leading to many people just not bothering to fight for a temporary alliance.  It's pretty bad, but probably not the result of basic population imbalance.

[SamuelW.2685]

Green has been steamrolling my team too, we're always outnumbered and there's been way less comms since the beta

idk what's happening, back when I belonged to Gate of Madness I knew my server was pretty decent, not the best, sure, but not getting constantly crapped on like now, makes WvW so un fun