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10th anniversary is cool and all... but still hoping for wing 8 soon!


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I know I'm probably a broken record at this point, but strikes aren't raids. They are fine as a separate kind of 10 person content, but raids have that full experience of a complete instance with a story all onto itself. I truly hope the influx of new players from strikes and emboldened leads to the devs having the ability to focus some resources on the content us raiders are clamoring for. The new Strikes feel more like a slog to me. 10-15 min for an encounter is way too long imo. The 5-7 min it takes to kill a raid boss is the target you should shoot for with an experienced group for any 10 person content going forward.

Been waiting since June 2019 for a new raid wing. Here's hoping 2023 is the year of Wing 8!

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One can only dream! There's nothing quite like exploring a raid map for the first time and pushing your way through with 9 other comrades! Strikes are fun, farmable, and mechanics are good (although KO and HT are arguably a bit too long), but yeah, they just don't teleport you to a new world like raids do.

Edited by firedragon.8953
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Here's the thing: Players don't seem to want long content like that anymore.

 

The devs attempted this with Forging Steel. Its a middle ground between all instanced content, but because of its length no one wanted to do it except for achivements.

 

That's why dungeons were abandoned. that's why Forging Steel was a flop, that's why the long Fractals are disliked by the community. Of course, I don't agree, I love when they try to tell a story with the content, but the majority of players these days just want rewards and could care less about the experience.

 

Even if you try to tell a story, they just sit there and go "LET ME SKIP, LET ME SKIP PLEASE I HATE WHEN PEOPLE ARE TALKING IT MAKE ME SO UPSET".

 

If you allowed players to do any boss in a raid they'd immediately be 100% more popular, and of course the easiest bosses would just get farmed and no one would do the hard ones.

Edited by Mariyuuna.6508
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3 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:
Quote

Here's the thing: Players don't seem to want long content like that anymore.

Guess I'm no player then...

Quote

The devs attempted this with Forging Steel. Its a middle ground between all instanced content, but because of its length no one wanted to do it except for achivements.

That comparison doesn't nail it imo. Forging Steel is nowhere close to a raid wing, neither by design nor by difficulty. It's just some lenghty super boring open world event chain. That's the main reason why it doesn't attract "endgame players", not that it takes 20-30 minutes.

 

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On 8/20/2022 at 3:28 AM, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Have you completed it with all challenges active at once? Its no open-world event chain..

Yepp, shortly after release with a random lfg squad, no dedicated roles or organized subsquads. Absolutly just like a random OW meta event at off hours with few people.

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Not that I hope it'll stay that way, but I doubt we ever get a wing8. Even with emboldened mode out, strikes are far more popular.

10-15 mins for a bossfight may feel like its slow to you (and few exceptions aside, its due to the lack of dps requierement, not the encounter itself, half the strikes can be beaten within 5 mins) but that's only true if your whole group is experienced and everything works out first try. 
For your average player, raiding implies (even if that's not always true) 2 or 3h of waiting everyone gathers, trying and failing multiple times. Hell, most people that got their strike CM achievements as they released don't want to do those again for that same reason (+ lack of reward except random titles the first time you do it)

I feel like we're way more likely to get a 3rd difficulty for "hardcore challenge" - that's basically only tweaking numbers on already existing assets, than a proper new raid only a fraction of the playerbase will enjoy

Edited by Taclism.2406
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13 hours ago, Taclism.2406 said:

Not that I hope it'll stay that way, but I doubt we ever get a wing8. Even with emboldened mode out, strikes are far more popular.

10-15 mins for a bossfight may feel like its slow to you (and few exceptions aside, its due to the lack of dps requierement, not the encounter itself, half the strikes can be beaten within 5 mins) but that's only true if your whole group is experienced and everything works out first try. 
For your average player, raiding implies (even if that's not always true) 2 or 3h of waiting everyone gathers, trying and failing multiple times. Hell, most people that got their strike CM achievements as they released don't want to do those again for that same reason (+ lack of reward except random titles the first time you do it)

I feel like we're way more likely to get a 3rd difficulty for "hardcore challenge" - that's basically only tweaking numbers on already existing assets, than a proper new raid only a fraction of the playerbase will enjoy

Actually the reason the strikes take as long as they do is due to the significant increase in mechanics that keep you running around the arena off the main boss as opposed to a dps check. The mechanics are also pretty rng heavy to boot because you have to communicate effectively or you end up wiping forcing even more need for voice channels such as discord.

Mai Trin CM for example has random green circles where you assign 3 teams and have to quickly call out your team number to make sure not to over stack the debuffs or it's a wipe (terrible design because the wipe isn't instant either, so people could be inevitably dead without realizing if no voice comms). The EoD strikes just feel like a complete mess where the devs were like "let's just overload this thing with a ton of mechanics all at the same time that make people run around in order to make the content seem more fleshed out." Which instead leads to a literal cluster****.  It's just diarrhea rainbows on the screen. Bad design.

My static will only touch the 2 easy strike CMs from EoD each week and calls it a day as the last 2 are just too long and people would rather spend their time doing a whole wing (wing 4, for example, takes as long as Kaineng Overlook CM), meaning one boring long encounter vs 4. which to people makes you feel more accomplished even if it's the same amount of rewards.) Strikes genuinely just feel bad, long and quite frankly as a waste of time even if you clear them.

TLDR: Raiders want raids, not more strikes; because they are at best a shadow of what makes raids amazing.

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7 hours ago, Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

Raiders want raids, not more strikes

Couldnt agree more, thats the main reason I moved on from gw2 "challenges", and now treat it as the casual mmo it wants to be.

I'm not saying strikes and raids are equals, I'm saying strikes have a much broader appeal to your average player.

There's a ton of factors for that :
- Absence of dps requierement / enrage mechanics in strikes (unless CM), meaning its just about "surviving", optimizing your damage is "appreciated but unnecessary". Meaning Joe-I-refuse-to-play-optimally can join anyway. Also means its "easier to carry" because Joe can die and it doesnt matter.
- You see strikes merch in story hubs, its "on your way" just playing casually. Raid (merchs) aren't, you have to go "out of your way" to look for it. I'm also willing to bet the more casual a player is, the more strikes become their main sources for ascended gear.
- The general perception / old memories from past MMOs of "whats its like to raid" and not wanting to put up with it anymore (somewhat related : Remember the popular perception of DE's meta as a raid boss)
- Raiders pushing add-ons to precall timed mechanics / phase changes, whereas strikes are much more telegraphed and don't really need any - that's the only thing I actually like more about strikes than raids
- Overall lenght as a newcomer (prep, briefs, fails , ...) You mention you're in a static and I guess its mostly smooth runs for you, but that's not the experience of the majority even amongst raiders, and obviously even less so for the community at large (+ feels better to think "I beat X strike" than "I beat the first boss out of Y in Z wing")
- Rewards
- LFG reqs
- ...

From what I've seen/heard in the past months, Anet is bent on making its current content more accessible. I wish they did it by giving more tutorials and incentive to improve, which in turn would make trying to raid not such a big jump (reducing the knowledge gap) and making people seek more challenge.

But instead we get viable 0apm builds, so I have little hope the game doesnt devolve furthermore into "press 1 to win" and highly doubt they'll make another wing, spending a significant amount of ressources for content very few will see. Hence why I speculate its more "likely" we get a third difficulty instead.

Edited by Taclism.2406
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