The existing Tutorial achievement category has been deprecated and moved to the Historical category for anyone who has already completed them [Merged]

[Vayne.8563]

7 hours ago, phantom.1675 said:

Most people who hunt AP have paid the 1000g for 5AP in ember bay - "Contract of Patronage" so, yeah missing 10 AP is extremely painful.

People who paid 1000 gold for that, would have had this one done ages ago though. I did, my wife did.  I don't really see the reason for retiring them, except for the duplication perhaps.

[Julian.9473]

I view it as taking away AP I was going to get. I spend a lot of time to get 5ap, even 3 or 1ap. And now it's more than 100 AP we won't able to get (the people who didn't finish this)

[Vayne.8563]

33 minutes ago, Julian.9473 said:

I view it as taking away AP I was going to get. I spend a lot of time to get 5ap, even 3 or 1ap. And now it's more than 100 AP we won't able to get (the people who didn't finish this)

There are quite a few achievements you're never going to get though. There are many retired achievements.

[Kori Jenkins.9017]

8 hours ago, Whirlygig.9685 said:

They were talking about a new 'adventure guide' that we now know replaces ours and they did not think at any point to mention this? not that i think they should have removed them, because i don't , it does not have any rationalisation that is reasonable.

 

To make it worse for me, i was trying to persuade a couple of people to get an account as they only really game on steam, so i was waiting until steam launch with an offer to buy a new character slot and do all the tutorial areas ( 25 things per map needed for each) with them, and get my achievements!

 

 

THAT is the problem. It's not the removal, it's the fact that there was no warning whatsoever. A complete lack of awareness that there's a sizable portion of their game that focuses on achievement hunting, which they've now spurned. 

 

I'm not really an achievement hunter, but I fully understand how irritating it is to be told you can no longer get something after the fact. 

 

The worst part is, just because they added a new set of tutorial achievements doesn't make the old ones obsolete. They had no reason at all to remove them; the current game would not have been impacted in any way by having two sets. Absolutely baffling. 

[Nightmaria.8316]

3 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

There are quite a few achievements you're never going to get though. There are many retired achievements.

That was called a new and permanent achievement on release. You cannot compare that to achievements related to something like season one that had been billed as TEMPORARY content.

 

They removed a permanent achievement without warning.

 

What next? The Aurene legendary tricket achievements?

 

Not a good move at all on ANET's part. They need to revert this change.

 

This is the tenth anniversary. Instead of wanting to log in and go back to enjoying things and getting my so called PERMANENT achievements casually, I feel less like logging in at all. Wondering when the next set of so called permanent content is going to be yanked out from under me.

 

This isn't how you treat your players if you want to keep them. This IS betrayal.

[Vayne.8563]

2 minutes ago, Nightmaria.8316 said:

That was called a new and permanent achievement on release. You cannot compare that to achievements related to something like season one that had been billed as TEMPORARY content.

 

They removed a permanent achievement without warning.

 

What next? The Aurene legendary tricket achievements?

 

Not a good move at all on ANET's part. They need to revert this change.

 

This is the tenth anniversary. Instead of wanting to log in and go back to enjoying things and getting my so called PERMANENT achievements casually, I feel less like logging in at all. Wondering when the next set of so called permanent content is going to be yanked out from under me.

 

This isn't how you treat your players if you want to keep them. This IS betrayal.

They should definitely warn people. I never said they shouldn't.  But there are permanent achievements removed too.  Like  the mini collections as one example.  It's not betrayal, it's overlooked stuff.  There should have been a warning, but it's still not a betrayal unless you're very very dramatic.

[Nightmaria.8316]

1 minute ago, Vayne.8563 said:

They should definitely warn people. I never said they shouldn't.  But there are permanent achievements removed too.  Like  the mini collections as one example.  It's not betrayal, it's overlooked stuff.  There should have been a warning, but it's still not a betrayal unless you're very very dramatic.

It is a betrayal of trust between the company and consumer. When they say something is a permanent addition for the duration of the game then you should be able to believe it is.

 

They lied.

 

Just because you are willing to shrug it off when they feed you lies doesn't mean others are.

 

A permanent achievement should not be changed in such a way. Improving something is one thing, taking away so called "permanent" content is another.

[phantom.1675]

4 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

There are quite a few achievements you're never going to get though. There are many retired achievements.

Well, yes and all the retired achievements are a black stain on the game. I admire that they have tried to revive some of them like Marionette and the re-release of season 1, but they definitely shouldn't be adding to the list of retired stuff now that they know better and have demonstrated it by specifically bringing back old season 1 AP progress vs just adding a new set.

A player that starts today should be able to reach the highest AP that anyone has who has been playing since launch - I know there are many achievements that currently prevent this, but let's keep improving instead of taking steps backwards.

[Astralporing.1957]

5 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

There are quite a few achievements you're never going to get though. There are many retired achievements.

Yes, and it was generally acknowledged to be a problem. They even tried more than once to bring at least some of those back. That's why adding to that list doesn't make sense.

[Mazreal Blackknight.1564]

I look at it this way, IF you wanted these AP so bad why did you leave them sitting for how ever long? Being an AP hunter myself, I make it priority to obtain the AP as soon as I can. Why would you let 125 AP slip away so easy. Why did you let them sit for 2 years? If you want someone to be mad at, be mad at you.

Sure I missed out on some AP but at the time I didn't get them done before they were retired, guess who's fault that is; MINE cause I didn't get them finished.

[Labjax.2465]

2 minutes ago, Mazreal Blackknight.1564 said:

I look at it this way, IF you wanted these AP so bad why did you leave them sitting for how ever long? Being an AP hunter myself, I make it priority to obtain the AP as soon as I can. Why would you let 125 AP slip away so easy. Why did you let them sit for 2 years? If you want someone to be mad at, be mad at you.

Sure I missed out on some AP but at the time I didn't get them done before they were retired, guess who's fault that is; MINE cause I didn't get them finished.

Do we really need to be judging people over their reasons for not having gotten some AP yet in a video game? 😩All for some blame shifting away from a corporation who holds 100% of the power over this game onto an individual who holds 0% of the power over this game?

This stuff is so weird.

[Izzy.2951]

I was missing 10-20 achivements of that, the one that you have to loot a box and equip some boots that never dropped.

[Luthan.5236]

They shold at least have made the once you started but have not completed yet ... available for future completion. I deleted the items where you had rare drop + achievement step and had another one for equipping them. And .... all the time no drops. And yesterday one dropped again. But that one is incompleted and completely hidden now. The one that needed equipping them. I  completede everything else.

I know it could be confusing for newer players ... so for people that did not do it at all was good to hide this. For the AP you can not get anymore (luckily the season 1 are being brought back now so this should not be tooo much) ... they should add this on top of the AP you can get from dailies. (So that these people can just do 1 more daily or so ... once they are at the cap there.)

Edited August 24, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Nightmaria.8316]

1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Do we really need to be judging people over their reasons for not having gotten some AP yet in a video game? 😩All for some blame shifting away from a corporation who holds 100% of the power over this game onto an individual who holds 0% of the power over this game?

This stuff is so weird.

Very "weird" to put it mildly, and I thank you for calling it out.

 

I figured those "white knights" would be out shortly to defend ANET. Guess they never heard of real life.

 

The players shouldn't be the ones being judged here for not finishing the achievement yet.

 

The blame should be on ANET. They said it was a permanent achievement. One plagued with terrible RNG issues related to the equipment box at that, and the fact you had to do everything on a brand new character.

 

Just because one player blitzes through it immediately doesn't mean they have any right at all to judge another for trying to do the same so called "permanent achievement" at their own pace. Their reasons for not blitzing through it are their own.

 

There was no warning. There was never an indication they were going to remove the achievement.

 

This isn't how you keep players.

[udoh.5307]

It's a little unfair to really  do this sort of thing, and replacing with achievements that give no AP and a lot of spam (that we can't disable) without any warning, it's the same sort of thing as "that balance patch", doing something without communicatng/discussing it with your loyal player base.

Edited August 24, 2022 by udoh.5307

[Teratus.2859]

Oh no!!

I really like these achievements, shame they're no longer around.
I'm glad I did them all when I had the chance but still, these were good achievements with some nice little rewards, boosters etc.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Got to say that as relatively new players who have been working ourselves up through Tyria (about level 50 now) the new Character Achievements really skew the game. They give out way too much XP and trivialize our efforts to grow our characters naturally. What's the point in spending a couple of hours exploring new areas, doing events and getting a few hard earned levels when the new Character Achievements throw three levels at you in 5 minutes just for logging on, using a teleporter, dodging three times and half a dozen other trivial things?

At the very least we should be able to turn them off.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Mistwraithe.3106

[Vayne.8563]

17 hours ago, Nightmaria.8316 said:

It is a betrayal of trust between the company and consumer. When they say something is a permanent addition for the duration of the game then you should be able to believe it is.

 

They lied.

 

Just because you are willing to shrug it off when they feed you lies doesn't mean others are.

 

A permanent achievement should not be changed in such a way. Improving something is one thing, taking away so called "permanent" content is another.

They lied. They told you directly those achievements would be there forever.  That's what they said. Or was in implied? Or did you assume?   Lying means to intentionally mislead.  We don't even know the same devs were involved.

I think it's completely hyperbolic to use the term lie to imply something that you believed to be true that wasn't stated directly.  It has nothing to do with shrugging it off or not. It's that people exaagerate the severity of something minor in order to make a point. This is a storm in a tea cup. If it was that important it was easy enough to get, it took a whopping couple of hours to do it all.  You chose not to, and now it's gone.  Most of the people I know did it pretty much straight away, because it was easy and a lot of achievement points. The people to whom achievement points were most important would have it done.

 

You may feel betrayed, but that doesn't mean you were betrayed. That's exactly how hyperbole works. I can understanding being annoyed. I don't see how this will affect the vast majority of players in the long run.

[Lama.2735]

I absolutely detest the new Character Adventure Guide and how spammy it is.  I was so frustrated yesterday with them I actually logged off.  Furthermore, they removed the old Tutorial (Mastery) achievements so that is another 150 AP gone from the grand AP pool.   I just don't see why they couldn't have both the Character Achievement Guide and the collection up at the same time. It's a dumb decision to remove the tutorial collection with AP imo.

I think if they remove the achievements, they should remove the AP with it so there's no controversy like this. It further widen the AP gap and I feel that no matter what I do, I'll never catch up to those at 40k+ because I never even played when Monthly/Weekly AP was a thing. I value AP but with this inconsistent system, high AP simply means you've played longer and/or played at the right time.  In my experience, people with really high AP tends to not understand some basic concepts of the game.

Anet - please quit doing silly things like this and actually design a mentor system.  Add the old Tutorial achievements back and stop alienating people like me who has FOMO (fear of missing out).

[phantom.1675]

46 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

You may feel betrayed, but that doesn't mean you were betrayed. That's exactly how hyperbole works. I can understanding being annoyed. I don't see how this will affect the vast majority of players in the long run.

 

If they deleted the turtle mount, although never explicitly stating it was a permanent feature, do you think Anet lied? All the EOD advertising says is that players can unlock a turtle mount, never that it's permanent unlock. Am I trolling? Sure, but the point is anet shouldn't have to state something is permanent if the MO has been permanent AP since like 2016 or so?

It's very reasonable that any player would think any new AP would become permanent. 

 

You can call it lying or misleading or whatever - I don't really care how it's labeled. But it is extremely counter to a good customer experience and a game environment where you can jump in and not feel like you will never catch up.

 

The other odd aspect of this is that it really doesn't cost Anet much to leave the old system in some kind of "legacy section" of the achievements.

59 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The people to whom achievement points were most important would have it done.

Also, please dont push your assumptions about how people earn AP onto the entire player base - if you were right, there would be no uproar over this. As there is an uproar, you are clearly wrong. QED

 

[Randulf.7614]

We have been through this before. Things get removed without warning, Anet hold up their hands and say they will pre-warn next time. A new team comes in, the old feedback is not known or forgotten and the cycle continues.

It is a minor annoyance they keep not thinking about AP and the importance some hold to this rather easy to maintain form of horizontal progression, but this isn’t really new either. AP is never going to be looked upon with much forethought or priority. I agree this should have been communicated ahead of time, but I’m seeing lacklustre communication in so many games these days, I’m becoming less and less surprised.

I don’t think this is a case of lying though. That’s attaching more premeditated thought than it was ever likely given

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, phantom.1675 said:

 

If they deleted the turtle mount, although never explicitly stating it was a permanent feature, do you think Anet lied? All the EOD advertising says is that players can unlock a turtle mount, never that it's permanent unlock. Am I trolling? Sure, but the point is anet shouldn't have to state something is permanent if the MO has been permanent AP since like 2016 or so?

It's very reasonable that any player would think any new AP would become permanent. 

 

You can call it lying or misleading or whatever - I don't really care how it's labeled. But it is extremely counter to a good customer experience and a game environment where you can jump in and not feel like you will never catch up.

 

The other odd aspect of this is that it really doesn't cost Anet much to leave the old system in some kind of "legacy section" of the achievements.

Also, please dont push your assumptions about how people earn AP onto the entire player base - if you were right, there would be no uproar over this. As there is an uproar, you are clearly wrong. QED

 

Except they're removed achievements in the past and never removed a mount from the game.  And we're talking about something like 120 achievement points.   A mount helps you move around the game.  It's an in game feature, like a weapon. Achievement points, there are tons of. Nothing can replace a  turtle. There'll always be more achievement points. Everything in that analogy is flawed.

 

As to not caring how it's labeled, we use language to communicate. If you don't care how that happens, the forums are a funny place for you to hang out. It makes a difference. If someone calls you a liar, when you've simply made a mistake, you'd have something to say about it I'm pretty sure. If you told your kids you were taking them to the movies and had to work late and there was no choice, did you lie? No. The circumstance changed.  It really is that simple. Hyperbole makes arguments weaker, because reasonable people will simply close off.

[Izzy.2951]

2 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

They lied. They told you directly those achievements would be there forever.  That's what they said. Or was in implied? Or did you assume?   Lying means to intentionally mislead.  We don't even know the same devs were involved.

I think it's completely hyperbolic to use the term lie to imply something that you believed to be true that wasn't stated directly.  It has nothing to do with shrugging it off or not. It's that people exaagerate the severity of something minor in order to make a point. This is a storm in a tea cup. If it was that important it was easy enough to get, it took a whopping couple of hours to do it all.  You chose not to, and now it's gone.  Most of the people I know did it pretty much straight away, because it was easy and a lot of achievement points. The people to whom achievement points were most important would have it done.

 

You may feel betrayed, but that doesn't mean you were betrayed. That's exactly how hyperbole works. I can understanding being annoyed. I don't see how this will affect the vast majority of players in the long run.

I bet you have done the achivements before they retired them. You can keep complaining on getting all content solo-free again then i guess.

(yeah indeed forums are a funny place like you said)

[Eekasqueak.7850]

The tutorial achievements were better than this adventure guide. 

[Vayne.8563]

30 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

I bet you have done the achivements before they retired them. You can keep complaining on getting all content solo-free again then i guess.

(yeah indeed forums are a funny place like you said)

But they have removed achievements in the past before I did them. Shrugs.