The existing Tutorial achievement category has been deprecated and moved to the Historical category for anyone who has already completed them [Merged]

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

There are a LOT of achievement categories in the game.  Unless you've finished every other thing the game has to offer, it's pretty reasonable to have these on a long to-do list and not have prioritised them yet because you thought they'd be available later.

If I know anything about achievement hunting, it's that you target time limited (which wasn't the case here) and the easiest ones (yup) first. If you're striving for AP, prioritise them better I guess. 

Yes, that was still an unpredictable removal. But it was also still an easy set of achievements available for a few years now.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Hashberry.4510]

Cmon its not like when they took away our watchknight naughty bits or something 😅.

 

 

(really tho, sorry for those who missed it. Hope it gets fixed).

 

[Daevhalla.7823]

3 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Sounds like why the Gem Store doesn't offer every item all the time.  If they did, players would say, "I'll get them another time, because they will be available later."

Not at all. And even if that were true, the achievements would come back in a span of time, which they will not as they have been retired. And I would remind you we have such achievements (festival achivs).

And the Gem Store works in a different way, it's exactly of the marketing they have now, that encourages you to buy. With achivs it's another matter. There's a lot of them, and because the game isn't usually time locked and so encourages relaxed play, it's the reason a lot of players haven't completed them yet. And since they were tutorial ones and most of the players doesn't have a particular reason to go play in the starter maps people would actually have to go out of their way to do them. Which for people that aren't straight up achievement hunters means losing out on other activities, such as raids, pvp, strikes, or high lvl content.

I think the only decent thing would have been to either remind the players ahead of time for things like that, or bring them back soon, since the deed is already done.

And beside that, I sympathise with the OP, because if that happened to me, it would really be bothering me just to have something that is incomplete on my account.

[Sobx.1758]

48 minutes ago, Daevhalla.7823 said:

Not at all. And even if that were true, the achievements would come back in a span of time, which they will not as they have been retired. And I would remind you we have such achievements (festival achivs).

His post doesn't say what you think it says.

You seem to think he said "situation with this retired achievement is the same as it is with time-limited gemstore items", meanwhile what he says is "seems the gemstore items are comming back in waves, because otherwise people could potentially 'leave it for later' just like some people apparently did with these achievements for past 2-3 years".

48 minutes ago, Daevhalla.7823 said:

Which for people that aren't straight up achievement hunters means losing out on other activities, such as raids, pvp, strikes, or high lvl content.

And beside that, I sympathise with the OP, because if that happened to me, it would really be bothering me just to have something that is incomplete on my account.

There's about 0% chance OP is an achievement hunter considering he still didn't do those achievements. Because of that, we can also be nearly certain he's not running out of achievements anytime soon.

 

Again, I still think they should have given everyone "heads-up" before retiring any achievement, but the way some people suddenly say they're are missing the achievements and think their account is incomplete or w/e is just... uh.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Daevhalla.7823]

43 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

There's about 0% chance OP is an achievement hunter considering he still didn't do those achievements. Because of that, we can also be nearly certain he's not running out of achievements anytime soon.

I'm talking about him being a perfectionist or completist. xDD

Thanks for clarifying tho. I was just answering it the way I understood it.

45 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Again, I still think they should have given everyone "heads-up" before retiring any achievement, but the way some people suddenly say they're are missing the achievements and think their account is incomplete or w/e is just... uh.

I can tell you that I personally am an achievement hunter, but even I leave more difficult or time investive achievements for later, banking on the fact that they will *stay there*. Since there is other content in the game I enjoy as well, and while I could farm Modremoth for a month straight for all the weapons and currency and what not (just giving a theoretical example since I can't remember an actual one), I find that too boring.

[Sobx.1758]

15 minutes ago, Daevhalla.7823 said:

but even I leave more difficult or time investive achievements for later, banking on the fact that they will *stay there*.

Ok, understandable, but as already noted here:

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If I know anything about achievement hunting, it's that you target time limited (which wasn't the case here) and the easiest ones (yup) first.

These achievements were neither hard nor time consuming -that's part of the point.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Kori Jenkins.9017]

5 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

As opposed to bringing back the achievement that was for those?  I do agree the new tutorial ones should have achievement points.   But neither are exactly game ruining experiences that are a blemish upon one's account.

Just because you don't understand why someone else would care primarily about achievement hunting doesn't mean they should just arbitrarily delete achievements with no warning. Someone who is a completionist is going to be very bothered by not being able to ever go back and finish that last achievement of the bunch, and the only reason they can't is a complete failure to communicate on the part of the developers. 

Edit: You can spam confused all you want, it does not make it any less true, but certainly exposes your own lack of empathy. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Kori Jenkins.9017

[Rendalmj.3152]

just login for 7 days youll get more ap points than tutorial. achievement points is meh in gw2

[jamesg.7128]

9 minutes ago, Rendalmj.3152 said:

just login for 7 days youll get more ap points than tutorial. achievement points is meh in gw2

AP may be meh to some people, but others want to finish off the armour sets for example. I recently got the 6th Hellfire armour piece at 33k AP. I really like this set. I have a couple pieces of Radiant to get but not so fussed about this set. The weapons aren't bad but I rarely use them.

[Astralporing.1957]

10 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If I know anything about achievement hunting, it's that you target time limited (which wasn't the case here) and the easiest ones (yup) first. If you're striving for AP, prioritise them better I guess. 

Yes, that was still an unpredictable removal. But it was also still an easy set of achievements available for a few years now.

Theoretically, sure. At the same time there were achievements that were easier to do (or even only possible) if you were levelling up a new character. And not everyone has a character slot they can easily free for such an occasion. As such, it's quite understandable lot of players might have decided to put getting those off till the time they decide it is time to buy a new character slot.

For me it was a non-issue, but that was only because i already had a dedicated keyfarm slot i could use for it.

6 hours ago, Rendalmj.3152 said:

just login for 7 days youll get more ap points than tutorial. achievement points is meh in gw2

First, you don't get any AP points for logging in. You need to do dailies for that. Second, it's been years since i have last obtained any AP from dailies, and that is unlikely to change. Third, even if you are still not capped on daily ap, at some point you will be - in which case those that have done tutorial achieves before they got removed will still end up having 125 AP more than those that did not manage to do them.

Daily APs do not let you overcome the gap created by retired achievements precisely because the cap from dailies is the same for everyone.

(also, 7 days of dailies is 70 AP. Which is lower than the 125 points from tutorial achieves).

Edited August 29, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

11 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If I know anything about achievement hunting, it's that you target time limited (which wasn't the case here) and the easiest ones (yup) first. If you're striving for AP, prioritise them better I guess. 

Yes, that was still an unpredictable removal. But it was also still an easy set of achievements available for a few years now.

I agree to an extent (like I said, I'm pretty sure I completed these years ago).  However, the amount of content in the game renders this a bit more complicated.  There isn't an straightforward list of easy to hard, because activities get bucketed before ranking.

 

For example, if you started recently, there's a good chance you leapt into End of Dragons quickly, meaning you definitely wouldn't have spent as much time in Core/HoT/PoF than someone who has been here from the start.  It's possible that the "easy" achieves in earlier releases got put on hold while you focus on the newer/more popular/more profitable content.  Similarly, you may focus on gold making, crafting a legendary, doing story, unlocking skins etc. first.

 

Don't get me wrong, if someone is claiming to be a hardcore AP hunter who lost out here, then that does sound unlikely.  But someone saying they're a completionist, or interested in AP hunting, and that this bothers them, sounds completely fair enough to me.

[Rendalmj.3152]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

 

First, you don't get any AP points for logging in. You need to do dailies for that. Second, it's been years since i have last obtained any AP from dailies, and that is unlikely to change. Third, even if you are still not capped on daily ap, at some point you will be - in which case those that have done tutorial achieves before they got removed will still end up having 125 AP more than those that did not manage to do them.

Daily APs do not let you overcome the gap created by retired achievements precisely because the cap from dailies is the same for everyone.

(also, 7 days of dailies is 70 AP. Which is lower than the 125 points from tutorial achieves).

who cares achievement points in this game  is garbage compared to other games

[Gorem.8104]

17 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

I have a shiny weapon achieve I'll never complete because I don't participate in raids.  Boohoo to the blemish.

You make the Kitty avatar image look worse with comments like that, You can get those at any time, no one can get the tutorial achievements anymore. One was removed, one is still in game, your comment makes no sense to exist. 

Its already impossible for new achievement hunters to catch up to the leaders. Making it harder is not the right way to go about it. 

[Daevhalla.7823]

1 hour ago, Rendalmj.3152 said:

who cares achievement points in this game  is garbage compared to other games

Your opinion is noted and not what is needed on this forum post.

[Skynet.7201]

It's really bizarre to see an entire category wiped without advance notice, especially to the thousands of achievement hunters in the game, old and new.  I can't imagine how many didn't get to do it before it was eliminated. No warning?

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Theoretically, sure. At the same time there were achievements that were easier to do (or even only possible) if you were levelling up a new character. And not everyone has a character slot they can easily free for such an occasion. As such, it's quite understandable lot of players might have decided to put getting those off till the time they decide it is time to buy a new character slot.

For me it was a non-issue, but that was only because i already had a dedicated keyfarm slot i could use for it.

Good point, but then it was ~2-3 years to get a character slot. If they still didn't get one, chances are they won't get it anytime soon. And yes, I still think the activity + whether or not someone is oriented on completing achievements is an important part of this topic, since if someone isn't that active nor pretty much hunts achievements, they most probably won't be running out of points to get anytime soon.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[KRUSSIDULL.6845]

I'm running out of points to get would have gotten these already If I knew they were gonna disappear. These achievements were just something you would get on your next character.

[Lama.2735]

14 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Theoretically, sure. At the same time there were achievements that were easier to do (or even only possible) if you were levelling up a new character. And not everyone has a character slot they can easily free for such an occasion. As such, it's quite understandable lot of players might have decided to put getting those off till the time they decide it is time to buy a new character slot.

For me it was a non-issue, but that was only because i already had a dedicated keyfarm slot i could use for it.

First, you don't get any AP points for logging in. You need to do dailies for that. Second, it's been years since i have last obtained any AP from dailies, and that is unlikely to change. Third, even if you are still not capped on daily ap, at some point you will be - in which case those that have done tutorial achieves before they got removed will still end up having 125 AP more than those that did not manage to do them.

Daily APs do not let you overcome the gap created by retired achievements precisely because the cap from dailies is the same for everyone.

(also, 7 days of dailies is 70 AP. Which is lower than the 125 points from tutorial achieves).

Thank you for this clear explanation.  I wish people would stop deflecting or playing "What about -isms?"  Many people already brought up excellent points.  It just seems the people that are white knighting Anet dont want to show some empathy towards others point of view and just blame it on them because they were "lazy" 😞 
 

13 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

I agree to an extent (like I said, I'm pretty sure I completed these years ago).  However, the amount of content in the game renders this a bit more complicated.  There isn't an straightforward list of easy to hard, because activities get bucketed before ranking.

 

For example, if you started recently, there's a good chance you leapt into End of Dragons quickly, meaning you definitely wouldn't have spent as much time in Core/HoT/PoF than someone who has been here from the start.  It's possible that the "easy" achieves in earlier releases got put on hold while you focus on the newer/more popular/more profitable content.  Similarly, you may focus on gold making, crafting a legendary, doing story, unlocking skins etc. first.

 

Don't get me wrong, if someone is claiming to be a hardcore AP hunter who lost out here, then that does sound unlikely.  But someone saying they're a completionist, or interested in AP hunting, and that this bothers them, sounds completely fair enough to me.

Yes.  Exactly this.  I want to enjoy the game and do whatever feels fun.  I know many people that hardcore "grind" something at the beginning end up quitting the game quickly.  I enjoy doing things passively as I play and Anet should respect that (especially since this game is centered around the 'casual' experience) and not just suddenly remove a good chunk of AP points with decent rewards without any notification.  This needs to stop happening.  In my opinion, a sign of a bad game is where you need to constantly remove old content and replace it with new content.  Anet is going have to rebuild that trust with me because I am not spending another dollar until a developer addresses this or revert the changes if possible.   Why would anyone care about the "AP race" if more people know it is rigged from the very start?  There are legitimate logical solutions proposed by others and it should be higher on their to-do-list since it is such a integral part of the game.   This conversation should go beyond the 125 lost AP at this point...

[PseudoNewb.5468]

On 8/25/2022 at 3:04 PM, Cronospere.8143 said:

That... could work. I like the idea.

The only problem is that when they reintroduce the retired achievements (LS1 for example) they arent available anymore.

I think Anet can justifiably simply lower the AP cap back down and then remove the points above the cap. It won't interfere with how Anet distributes achievement chests AFAIK. GWAMM bugs can make player AP go lower and nobody seems to have noticed any chest bugs due to it.

[Peter Panda.5629]

It baffles me how many people are actually trying to shift the blame to the players for not getting the achievements sooner.
Sooner than what? In the past, the only achievements that were removed were connected to content or systems that went away as well. And even then, it was rare that this happened. It was a regular occurence with Season 1, but since Anet changed its philosophy about removing content, it happened like what? Two times? It definitely happens uncommonly enough to be unexpected every time. And even then, I believe with the hint system going away for example, we had some forewarning.

Furthermore, the content connected to these recently removed achievements did not go away. Nothing was removed that would prevent these from being achievable. So there was nothing to logically indicate that this category would be deprecated.

Of course these achievements were very simple to get, but it does not follow that every achievement hunter would therefore prioritize them. There are plenty of relatively easy achievements I'm still putting off, because it is (for me) more optimal to finish them some other time. And now I'm supposed to play the game with the concern that with every Arenanet's attempt to innovate something, achievements could go away? Should I rush through my dungeon achievements the moment they announce looking back at dungeons? Should I be actively playing WvW because they might deprecate more APs with an Alliance update? This was simply a bad move, regardless of whether it was genuinely a one time thing, because it makes me and many others less confident in this game and its development.

[Labjax.2465]

22 minutes ago, Peter Panda.5629 said:

It baffles me how many people are actually trying to shift the blame to the players for not getting the achievements sooner.
Sooner than what? In the past, the only achievements that were removed were connected to content or systems that went away as well. And even then, it was rare that this happened. It was a regular occurence with Season 1, but since Anet changed its philosophy about removing content, it happened like what? Two times? It definitely happens uncommonly enough to be unexpected every time. And even then, I believe with the hint system going away for example, we had some forewarning.

Furthermore, the content connected to these recently removed achievements did not go away. Nothing was removed that would prevent these from being achievable. So there was nothing to logically indicate that this category would be deprecated.

Of course these achievements were very simple to get, but it does not follow that every achievement hunter would therefore prioritize them. There are plenty of relatively easy achievements I'm still putting off, because it is (for me) more optimal to finish them some other time. And now I'm supposed to play the game with the concern that with every Arenanet's attempt to innovate something, achievements could go away? Should I rush through my dungeon achievements the moment they announce looking back at dungeons? Should I be actively playing WvW because they might deprecate more APs with an Alliance update? This was simply a bad move, regardless of whether it was genuinely a one time thing, because it makes me and many others less confident in this game and its development.

Yeah, the blame the players rhetoric is so pervasive on these forums and it feels like borderline gaslighting sometimes. The way some people talk, you'd think the people who complain were showing up at anet developers homes with protest signs and chants, instead of what they are actually doing, which is voicing a complaint on a forum that has no evidence anything here is even read with regularity, much less taken seriously and the worst it can possibly do is offend somebody at anet if they read it or make the game look somewhat bad (the 2nd of which is highly unlikely, since most game forums contain a lot of criticism).

And the fact that I made a thread about things for people to share that they enjoy about the game and it has gotten far less engagement than some of the complaint threads I've made in the past tells me all I need to know about the thought process going on here. That some people on here are more interested in cutting others down than they are into nurturing a positive atmosphere about the game.

I mean, when I post criticism on here, my goal isn't to cut the game down, but to advocate for people who are paying for a product, myself included, and maybe once in a blue moon put something in perspective in a way that anet can benefit from hearing. I always feel bad when I post harsher criticism and the irony is when people like me post a criticism and someone defends anet against it ferociously (I see this happen with others, not just myself) what happens is my criticism ends up looking even harsher as a result of me persistently calling attention to it and going on about it in the process of defending its validity as a criticism. If people instead sympathized with criticism of the game and tried to understand it better, what they would prob get is a less critical environment; criticism that becomes more defused, that the person pulls back on a little more in how strongly they feel about it now that they feel validated and heard.

[Sobx.1758]

11 hours ago, Peter Panda.5629 said:

Furthermore, the content connected to these recently removed achievements did not go away. Nothing was removed that would prevent these from being achievable. So there was nothing to logically indicate that this category would be deprecated.

Sure it didn't. But I doubt it has anything to do with the reason these achievements got removed. It got removed, because it got replaced (still, as I wrote before, it doesn't mean that I somehow support removal of achievements) by another set of tutorial achievements and they probably didn't want people to have to somehow pick between one or another. Chances are rather high that people starting the game seeing two tutorial sets of achievements would get rather baffled about which one to follow.

Maybe they should have implemented the new tutorial achievements as they are -exept once per account instead of once per character- and after completing this full set, it would unlock the old one with AP as some sort of "going back to the roots"/"helping newbs"/"starting an alt" (still once-per-account) incentive.

11 hours ago, Peter Panda.5629 said:

Of course these achievements were very simple to get, but it does not follow that every achievement hunter would therefore prioritize them. There are plenty of relatively easy achievements I'm still putting off, because it is (for me) more optimal to finish them some other time.

Ok, but trying to go with less "vague hypotheticals" and more with "your actual situation you're outlining here", what would be the correct/optimal moment to go for those fast and easy achievements? (because if it was me hunting for achievements, I'd definitely say the easiest/fastest ones would have a priority)

 

10 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

And the fact that I made a thread about things for people to share that they enjoy about the game and it has gotten far less engagement than some of the complaint threads I've made in the past tells me all I need to know about the thought process going on here. That some people on here are more interested in cutting others down than they are into nurturing a positive atmosphere about the game.

That's probably because some of your complaint/accusatory ("player flaming commander is the fault of people saying who they're looking for in lfg" or "this guy flaming others isn't my casual, it's your elitist guy!") threads make little to no sense, which is subsequently pointed out and discussed at length. Meanwhile the thread about "what you enjoy in the game" seems to have low value to me, people enjoy whatever they enjoy, it doesn't mean anyone is bound to make a list for you -there also isn't a whole lot to discuss there, it's basically "make your list and move on" thread, so it shouldn't be such a huge surprise it has low activity. People disagreeing with you -or straight up pointing out faulty logic in what you wrote in some thread- has nothing to do with "cutting others down".

Maybe to help you understand: you're disagreeing on plenty of issues too, don't you? Does it mean that you're focused on cutting others down or does it mean you're just disagreeing with something?

Edited August 30, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Lama.2735]

I just want equity in the AP system so it means something.  My motivation to grind AP has come to a halt.  Why chase points if Anet is going to just randomly remove them without notice?   AP hunting was my true end game but now I kind of just do dailies and log off to watch a movie.  😞

[Deepcuts.9740]

Is it just me or archiving these achievements actually removed the AP from people that already have them done?

gw2efficiency shows a big dip after the update for me.

[Sobx.1758]

17 minutes ago, Deepcuts.9740 said:

Is it just me or archiving these achievements actually removed the AP from people that already have them done?

gw2efficiency shows a big dip after the update for me.

Don't think it got removed.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Sobx.1758