Dps chrono needs more love.

[zealex.9410]

Frankly speaking the 2 major pain points of  dps chrono (excluding burst, its not necessary for it to have great burst  since thats the whole deal behind virtuoso) is that its sustain dps is low and critcapping it is miserable esp since the 5% crit nerf to it.

This hurts alot more considering dps chrono is hard to play at a high lvl, requires better encounter knowledge and is melee. None of these are bad but why would you play it when other jobs frankly do more and more easily?

I think dps chrono would really benefit by having an easier time crit capping (giving dueling a 5% crit chance would help here, this could be taken from virt without any major blow to power virruoso) and also buffs/qol to chronofantasma and its f1 at the very least.

Edited August 26, 2022 by zealex.9410

[Mungo Zen.9364]

You aren't the first person to suggest moving the Crit from Virtuoso to Dueling, but I think it is a terrible idea.  Dueling is already used in the majority of Power and Condi builds for Mesmer.  By adding more Crit to Dueling it just makes Dueling more likely the best choice to take for any Mesmer build.  

I think that if Chrono needs 5% more Crit, it should be added to Chrono traits and Virtuoso Crit be left alone.

I mean really, calling to nerf one spec to buff another?  I know this is the lesson Anet has shown us but, cmon, just ask for more Crit from Chrono without giving Anet bad ideas on how to tweak the game.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

9 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

You aren't the first person to suggest moving the Crit from Virtuoso to Dueling, but I think it is a terrible idea.  Dueling is already used in the majority of Power and Condi builds for Mesmer.  By adding more Crit to Dueling it just makes Dueling more likely the best choice to take for any Mesmer build.  

I think that if Chrono needs 5% more Crit, it should be added to Chrono traits and Virtuoso Crit be left alone.

I mean really, calling to nerf one spec to buff another?  I know this is the lesson Anet has shown us but, cmon, just ask for more Crit from Chrono without giving Anet bad ideas on how to tweak the game.

this suggestion always seems to have a touchy side, but then you realise the only build that really cares is condi virt because its forced to build crit chance which adds absolutely no meaningful flavor to the spec, its just some random limiter that doesnt have a real reason to be there. im pretty sure we could give jagged mind with 1s or so reduced duration and not needing to crit a go and see how it fares with a generic condi setup, rather than some annoying specific setup just to hit crit cap

moving the crit chance to dueling wont have much of an effect on other condi builds because itd only be crazy good if the mesmer could reliably get illusions to crit cap to proc sharper images... but most of the time they cant. all would do is improve the usual not-so-great power dmg from mostly negligible to slightly-less-but-still negligible, and maybe make using alternative phantasms apart from duelist/mage all the time more viable

meanwhile every power build thats not virt (just because chrono is the only other popular alternative doesnt mean its the only one - core, mirage and future especs too) are equally suffering from running some annoyingly specific setup just to crit cap. they all tend to end up running dueling anyway if they want to improve on crits (also phantasmal fury)... but apart from poor fury access, it doesnt even increase their crit chance? if the build doesnt want to run dueling, shouldnt that be when the build takes compensating gear to crit cap?

[zealex.9410]

15 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

You aren't the first person to suggest moving the Crit from Virtuoso to Dueling, but I think it is a terrible idea.  Dueling is already used in the majority of Power and Condi builds for Mesmer.  By adding more Crit to Dueling it just makes Dueling more likely the best choice to take for any Mesmer build.  

I think that if Chrono needs 5% more Crit, it should be added to Chrono traits and Virtuoso Crit be left alone.

I mean really, calling to nerf one spec to buff another?  I know this is the lesson Anet has shown us but, cmon, just ask for more Crit from Chrono without giving Anet bad ideas on how to tweak the game.

Its not really a nerf when virtuoso is already running the dueling line and i choose dueling because it is the crit line for mesmer in general, im not really callimg to nerf virtuoso since the change in its power wouldnt exist.

That being said said they can do whatever here really however if they gave chrono more crit in danger time they should also rework that trait because its very unrealistic.

[zealex.9410]

4 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

this suggestion always seems to have a touchy side, but then you realise the only build that really cares is condi virt because its forced to build crit chance which adds absolutely no meaningful flavor to the spec, its just some random limiter that doesnt have a real reason to be there. im pretty sure we could give jagged mind with 1s or so reduced duration and not needing to crit a go and see how it fares with a generic condi setup, rather than some annoying specific setup just to hit crit cap

moving the crit chance to dueling wont have much of an effect on other condi builds because itd only be crazy good if the mesmer could reliably get illusions to crit cap to proc sharper images... but most of the time they cant. all would do is improve the usual not-so-great power dmg from mostly negligible to slightly-less-but-still negligible, and maybe make using alternative phantasms apart from duelist/mage all the time more viable

meanwhile every power build thats not virt (just because chrono is the only other popular alternative doesnt mean its the only one - core, mirage and future especs too) are equally suffering from running some annoyingly specific setup just to crit cap. they all tend to end up running dueling anyway if they want to improve on crits (also phantasmal fury)... but apart from poor fury access, it doesnt even increase their crit chance? if the build doesnt want to run dueling, shouldnt that be when the build takes compensating gear to crit cap?

Personally i think a condo build that relies on crit is unique and does add flavour to virtuoso but thats besides the point. Since the july 28ths patch every memser build that wasnt virtuoso lost 5% needlessly and while other specs got it back in core traitlines in very accesible positions (some didnt at all like guard) the only place mesmer go it was on virtuoso.

Thats needlessly hurtfull to chrono esp because besides needing it you also had to run danger time which was argueably more unrealistic of a trait compaired to running spirits and banners pre 28th.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

4 hours ago, zealex.9410 said:

Personally i think a condo build that relies on crit is unique and does add flavour to virtuoso but thats besides the point. Since the july 28ths patch every memser build that wasnt virtuoso lost 5% needlessly and while other specs got it back in core traitlines in very accesible positions (some didnt at all like guard) the only place mesmer go it was on virtuoso.

Thats needlessly hurtfull to chrono esp because besides needing it you also had to run danger time which was argueably more unrealistic of a trait compaired to running spirits and banners pre 28th.

unfortunately they needed to put a 5% into virtuoso because of condi virt (surprise surprise) and also because in their headspace it makes virt match chronos 15% from danger time. taking them both and putting 15% into core sounds far too sensible, but it cant be done because we annyoingly go back to the fact that condi virt is crit reliant and some devs and players want to give it the choice of running chaos/illusions and not be forced to run dueling

[zealex.9410]

27 minutes ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

unfortunately they needed to put a 5% into virtuoso because of condi virt (surprise surprise) and also because in their headspace it makes virt match chronos 15% from danger time. taking them both and putting 15% into core sounds far too sensible, but it cant be done because we annyoingly go back to the fact that condi virt is crit reliant and some devs and players want to give it the choice of running chaos/illusions and not be forced to run dueling

Dunno about chaos cirt but the highest dmg cvirt build aka illu also runs dueling. That being said idm making 1 cvirt build abit less convenient to help chrono which desperately needs it atm, dueling p and dueling condi virt would see no nerf and considering cvirt relies on crit i think dueling makes alot of sense for it anyways.

[Josiah.2967]

I personally want my Chrono Phantasm build back. They over nerfed phantasms and just need to revert it. With everything else doing crazy damage, it would be fine.

[zealex.9410]

7 minutes ago, Josiah.2967 said:

I personally want my Chrono Phantasm build back. They over nerfed phantasms and just need to revert it. With everything else doing crazy damage, it would be fine.

You mean the old perma phantasms? Those were just bad imo im all for buffing chronophantasma.

[Josiah.2967]

1 hour ago, zealex.9410 said:

You mean the old perma phantasms? Those were just bad imo im all for buffing chronophantasma.

 

I'm talking about the  2021-05-11 Chrono Nerfs before EOD.

 

•  Danger Time: Removed the critical-damage bonus.
•  Chronophantasma: Resummoned phantasm damage is now 75% in PvE only.
•  Seize the Moment: Quickness duration per clone shattered has been reduced from 1.5 seconds to 1 second in PvE only.
•  Illusionary Riposte: This skill no longer displaces the player when summoning a clone.

 

That's the stuff I'm talking about. Chronophantasma should really do 100% damage again. Some of those other changes should be reverted to. The really killed the spec.

Basically all of those changes should be reverted in my opinion.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Josiah.2967
Images broke

[zealex.9410]

18 minutes ago, Josiah.2967 said:

 

I'm talking about the  2021-05-11 Chrono Nerfs before EOD.

 

•  Danger Time: Removed the critical-damage bonus.
•  Chronophantasma: Resummoned phantasm damage is now 75% in PvE only.
•  Seize the Moment: Quickness duration per clone shattered has been reduced from 1.5 seconds to 1 second in PvE only.
•  Illusionary Riposte: This skill no longer displaces the player when summoning a clone.

 

That's the stuff I'm talking about. Chronophantasma should really do 100% damage again. Some of those other changes should be reverted to. The really killed the spec.

Basically all of those changes should be reverted in my opinion.

Ahh yeah true theres no reason these changes shouldnt be reverted. Well most except danger time if they dont rework it, it was incredibly degenerate before.

Edited August 26, 2022 by zealex.9410

[Mungo Zen.9364]

12 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

but then you realise the only build that really cares is condi virt because its forced to build crit chance

 

7 hours ago, zealex.9410 said:

Its not really a nerf when virtuoso is already running the dueling line

 

2 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

we annyoingly go back to the fact that condi virt is crit reliant

Are there any other Mesmer specs that actually rely on Crit Capping?  What are the skills or traits that they use that actually require being at Crit Cap?  As far as I can see, Critical Infusion (10 second ICD) and Master Fencer (8 second ICD) are are the only two actual payoffs for having higher Crit but do not require 100% Crit to function.  Whereas Virtuoso using Jagged Mind and Deadly Blades does not function properly without being at 100% Crit.

If any build in this game doesn't require 100% Crit and can function with below 100% Crit with the only change being how DPS is derived, then all Crit modifiers are doing is increasing DPS.  This DPS increase could be realized through a variety of means (Might, Ferocity, Quickness, Alacrity as buffs, or Skill Coefficient changes, Illusion DPS changes, or base DPS numbers etc etc).

This is one reason why I think moving Crit away from Virt in general is a bad idea, regardless of where the end result is.  cVirt has to take 3 Virt traits in order to function whatsoever.  cVirt has to gear towards 100% Crit Cap as a baseline, unlike the majority or all Mesmer builds.  The Crit in cVirt empowers the playstyle, and the DPS increase Crit provides is secondary.

What is the argument for other builds being able to access additional Crit?  To optimize gearing and increase DPS?  But if Crit was moved to Dueling, then all Spec would have to have the DPS rebalanced against this and as such, Chrono would most likely lose DPS somewhere else to make up for it.

Would you want Mirage and Chrono nerfed in some way to make up for a Crit buff in Dueling?  

20 minutes ago, Josiah.2967 said:

That's the stuff I'm talking about. Chronophantasma should really do 100% damage again. Some of those other changes should be reverted to. The really killed the spec.

I agree with these thoughts.  This is a better alternative to the idea of moving Crit into Dueling.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364

[zealex.9410]

56 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

 

 

Are there any other Mesmer specs that actually rely on Crit Capping?  What are the skills or traits that they use that actually require being at Crit Cap?  As far as I can see, Critical Infusion (10 second ICD) and Master Fencer (8 second ICD) are are the only two actual payoffs for having higher Crit but do not require 100% Crit to function.  Whereas Virtuoso using Jagged Mind and Deadly Blades does not function properly without being at 100% Crit.

If any build in this game doesn't require 100% Crit and can function with below 100% Crit with the only change being how DPS is derived, then all Crit modifiers are doing is increasing DPS.  This DPS increase could be realized through a variety of means (Might, Ferocity, Quickness, Alacrity as buffs, or Skill Coefficient changes, Illusion DPS changes, or base DPS numbers etc etc).

This is one reason why I think moving Crit away from Virt in general is a bad idea, regardless of where the end result is.  cVirt has to take 3 Virt traits in order to function whatsoever.  cVirt has to gear towards 100% Crit Cap as a baseline, unlike the majority or all Mesmer builds.  The Crit in cVirt empowers the playstyle, and the DPS increase Crit provides is secondary.

What is the argument for other builds being able to access additional Crit?  To optimize gearing and increase DPS?  But if Crit was moved to Dueling, then all Spec would have to have the DPS rebalanced against this and as such, Chrono would most likely lose DPS somewhere else to make up for it.

Would you want Mirage and Chrono nerfed in some way to make up for a Crit buff in Dueling?  

I agree with these thoughts.  This is a better alternative to the idea of moving Crit into Dueling.

I mean every power mesmer build also wants to 100% and its basicly a requirement for them but sure.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

1 minute ago, zealex.9410 said:

I mean every power mesmer build also wants to 100% and its basicly a requirement for them but sure.

But if they don't get to 100% they still function totally okay, right?  See it isn't a requirement if you don't need it to function.  cVirt is unique in that it is one of a few builds across any profession in the game that relies on traits that trigger on Crit and can only function properly with 100% Crit.

I mean, why not ask for more Crit in Dueling and leave Virtuoso traits alone altogether?  No one suggests it because it doesn't make sense to give cVirtuoso access to even more Crit right?

Chrono definitely needs some love but I have seen no compelling reasons to change every Mesmer build by adding Crit to Dueling just to fix Chrono.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

1 hour ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Are there any other Mesmer specs that actually rely on Crit Capping?  What are the skills or traits that they use that actually require being at Crit Cap?  As far as I can see, Critical Infusion (10 second ICD) and Master Fencer (8 second ICD) are are the only two actual payoffs for having higher Crit but do not require 100% Crit to function.  Whereas Virtuoso using Jagged Mind and Deadly Blades does not function properly without being at 100% Crit.

If any build in this game doesn't require 100% Crit and can function with below 100% Crit with the only change being how DPS is derived, then all Crit modifiers are doing is increasing DPS.  This DPS increase could be realized through a variety of means (Might, Ferocity, Quickness, Alacrity as buffs, or Skill Coefficient changes, Illusion DPS changes, or base DPS numbers etc etc).

This is one reason why I think moving Crit away from Virt in general is a bad idea, regardless of where the end result is.  cVirt has to take 3 Virt traits in order to function whatsoever.  cVirt has to gear towards 100% Crit Cap as a baseline, unlike the majority or all Mesmer builds. 

a lot of this doesnt make sense

power builds do up to 3x more dmg on crit (also you forgot about superiority complex and improved alacrity) and condi virt can also “function” without crit capping (its just more rng) which breaks the the rest of your argument, and its not like ive been pushing to remove the crit requirements and remove this need to function

”condi virt also doesnt need to crit cap either and hence its a good idea to delete the crit increase in entirety and try balancing the rng by increasing the bleed duration on jagged mind to 8s or something.” because thats thats how youre treating power builds atm. cant use bloodsong or upkeep deadly blades? oh just buff jagged mind further /s

1 hour ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

The Crit in cVirt empowers the playstyle, and the DPS increase Crit provides is secondary.

“its needed but its also secondary”?

1 hour ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

What is the argument for other builds being able to access additional Crit?  To optimize gearing and increase DPS?  But if Crit was moved to Dueling, then all Spec would have to have the DPS rebalanced against this and as such, Chrono would most likely lose DPS somewhere else to make up for it.

Would you want Mirage and Chrono nerfed in some way to make up for a Crit buff in Dueling?

why would mirage need nerfs?

chrono got a buff to improved alacrity that imo wouldnt be needed if this crit issue was solved before more balance spaghetti was introduced, but it seems like theres only more coming

[Mungo Zen.9364]

35 minutes ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

a lot of this doesnt make sense

power builds do up to 3x more dmg on crit (also you forgot about superiority complex and improved alacrity) and condi virt can also “function” without crit capping (its just more rng) which breaks the the rest of your argument, and its not like ive been pushing to remove the crit requirements and remove this need to function

”condi virt also doesnt need to crit cap either and hence its a good idea to delete the crit increase in entirety and try balancing the rng by increasing the bleed duration on jagged mind to 8s or something.” because thats thats how youre treating power builds atm. cant use bloodsong or upkeep deadly blades? oh just buff jagged mind further /s

“its needed but its also secondary”?

why would mirage need nerfs?

chrono got a buff to improved alacrity that imo wouldnt be needed if this crit issue was solved before more balance spaghetti was introduced, but it seems like theres only more coming

Let's help it make sense:

A Condi Virtuoso that is not Crit capped will not be able to generate Blades as efficiently, which in turn reduces the ability for them to fire off Bladesongs and trigger any 'on stock blade' effects like Signet of Ether and Deadly Blades alongside Jagged Minds.  By being unable to fire off Bladesongs on demand, it reduces access to more Bleed stacks further slowing down the DPS overall for the cVirt.  The mechanic is designed that being able to Crit triggers several effects on Skills and Traits with very low or no Internal Cooldown.

If a power build doesn't have 5% Crit, it loses ~3-5% DPS * Ferocity.  I believe that a cVirt losing 5% Crit would lose far more DPS than that based upon how the mechanic is currently built.

Now, I am not suggesting that power builds shouldn't have access to 100% Crit.  In the case of this thread however, I can think of many different ways to improve Chrono DPS and playability without putting a Crit Trait into Dueling. 

As an aside; I have far preferred Chrono playstyle over Virtuoso and was pretty disappointed with how Chrono has been treated since just before EoD.  I am hopeful that they will address Chrono in the future but I am also realistic that it may not be until next year that Chrono is actually in a good place (if ever).

[Noodle Ant.1605]

6 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Let's help it make sense:

A Condi Virtuoso that is not Crit capped will not be able to generate Blades as efficiently, which in turn reduces the ability for them to fire off Bladesongs and trigger any 'on stock blade' effects like Signet of Ether and Deadly Blades alongside Jagged Minds.  By being unable to fire off Bladesongs on demand, it reduces access to more Bleed stacks further slowing down the DPS overall for the cVirt.  The mechanic is designed that being able to Crit triggers several effects on Skills and Traits with very low or no Internal Cooldown.

If a power build doesn't have 5% Crit, it loses ~3-5% DPS * Ferocity.  I believe that a cVirt losing 5% Crit would lose far more DPS than that based upon how the mechanic is currently built.

let me help you understand where i see you coming from:

you say that cvirt losing 5% crit is a dps loss, but because like you said, its just dps, then frankly it can be compensated by simply increasing condi output (like buffing jagged mind to 999s or adding more condi traits elsewhere), because this is how youre proposing to try to balance power (“just add more”)

also power losing 5% crit turns that 5% into a 1/3 (loses 3.33%), while cvirt loses 5% of its 60% bleed output (3%) and loses barely anymore than power after factoring theoretical blade loss etc (5% of 5% and stuff). you cant just say that power mesmer isnt crit reliant and then say that cvirt is (or maybe -5% was a bad example and you shouldve said -40% or something)

Quote

Now, I am not suggesting that power builds shouldn't have access to 100% Crit.  In the case of this thread however, I can think of many different ways to improve Chrono DPS and playability without putting a Crit Trait into Dueling.

similarly, i dont see why cvirt needs to stay crit reliant when changing it opens more options both gameplay and balance wise, and the only reason ive been given is that “its unique”. uniquely starving the rest of the entire profession of a generic crit chance boost which every profession has something in core (up to 30%) but mesmer doesnt? or maybe, somehow this makes mesmer more “unique” because it has to use specialised gearsets more than half the time (and then also have other gearsets to switch to if changing to virt/not-virt)?

[Mungo Zen.9364]

12 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

let me help you understand where i see you coming from:

/shrug

you haven’t provided a compelling reason to make the changes you are supporting.  Why does Chrono need Virt to give up Crit and put it into Dueling?

It doesn’t; there are many other ways to fix Chrono without touching any other part of Mesmer. 

That you don’t agree with or acknowledge that cVirt was designed to use 100% Crit as a way to empower a style of play and not just hit a DPS target is a shame but I can’t force you to see what is right in front of you.

[Levetty.1279]

On 8/25/2022 at 6:31 PM, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

You aren't the first person to suggest moving the Crit from Virtuoso to Dueling, but I think it is a terrible idea.  Dueling is already used in the majority of Power and Condi builds for Mesmer.  By adding more Crit to Dueling it just makes Dueling more likely the best choice to take for any Mesmer build.  

I think that if Chrono needs 5% more Crit, it should be added to Chrono traits and Virtuoso Crit be left alone.

I mean really, calling to nerf one spec to buff another?  I know this is the lesson Anet has shown us but, cmon, just ask for more Crit from Chrono without giving Anet bad ideas on how to tweak the game.

I agree.

I wish trolls would stop trying to get the crit chance removed from Virtuoso. It is pretty obvious why they want it moved and it isn't to help Chrono.

 

Chrono has its own crit trait and they should have fixed the requirements of that to actually be viable and moved it so it isn't competing with improved alacrity. 

 

If they are so desperate for a crit chance buff in Dueling (they aren't) they would would asking for it in addition to the one in Virtuoso line. Like Warrior got with strength and Arms

[Noodle Ant.1605]

1 hour ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

you haven’t provided a compelling reason to make the changes you are supporting.

sure i havent. because its probably just as bad to you as your "empowerment" reason is to me

whatever. its not like changes are in our hands anyways and i dont need to convince you out of all people. if you are curious to what i was getting at though (you probably arent) then here:

• crit requirement removed for condi virt. opens options for every condi gear setup that doesnt focus on precision (rabid, dire, grieving, trailblazer etc... viper, meaning you dont need to statswap from chrono/mirage) and also allows bloodsong to be used by builds that might neither condi nor crit (blade gen is blade gen). how in the world is this empowerment, its limitation. counterbalanced by altering duration ofc
• crit chance moved from virt to core (doesnt have to be dueling but it makes the most sense in multiple ways). buffs every power build (including boon chrono builds which you totally didnt forget) except for virt, future proofs future elite specs so it doesnt have to already waste a trait for crit chance. allows swapping from virt/not-virt without needing to statswap. counterbalanced by reverting improved alacrity (explained later)
• void from moved crit chance in virt leaves space for another effect which you could recommend. or not
• danger time crit chance swapped for damage increase, maybe followed by adding additonal sources of slow. self explanatory. or maybe not
• frailty and superiority complex updated to also affect illusions or least phantasms. mesmer suffers from from taking a bunch of traits that doesnt give exactly what it says on the can (improved alacrity is one of them) - that 10% you traited for is maybe only a 5-6% overall increase

but whatever. i dont need to get this through to you or the next person thats going to try pick me apart

[zealex.9410]

If im being honest i dont see why any mesmer build would need a reduction in its output to justify giving the 5% that every build in the game had back to a core and more accesible traitline.

Crit for cvirt translates to dmg just as it does for chrono and pvirt and in the case of condi mirage much like many other condi specs its very inconsequential as a stat to make a difference in balance (with an exception being fb which even then has all the crit it needs built in).

Chrono wouldnt need a nerf on mirage wouldnt need a nerf because they effectively would be catching up to their indirect nerf from spirits and banners back in July.

Yeah generation of blades falls off abit for cvirt without crit but the best performimg build for cvirt runs dueling anyways and so does any power dps build for mesmer as well, its a non issue fie virtuoso.

[zealex.9410]

4 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

I agree.

I wish trolls would stop trying to get the crit chance removed from Virtuoso. It is pretty obvious why they want it moved and it isn't to help Chrono.

 

Chrono has its own crit trait and they should have fixed the requirements of that to actually be viable and moved it so it isn't competing with improved alacrity. 

 

If they are so desperate for a crit chance buff in Dueling (they aren't) they would would asking for it in addition to the one in Virtuoso line. Like Warrior got with strength and Arms

Chrono relied on banners and spirits/spotter as much as any other build for its crit including virt both condi and power however from that nerf only virtuoso was compensated. Chrono needs both danger time fixed and that lost 5% crit compensated because its miserable to crit cap on that build now and for no reason.

Edited August 27, 2022 by zealex.9410

[Salt Mode.3780]

I will say this, crit on hit builds are always terrible when you have stuff like weakness.

[zealex.9410]

55 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I will say this, crit on hit builds are always terrible when you have stuff like weakness.

That fair i think its a fair counterbalance to them personally tho for cvirt it introduces a unique aproach to countering them in pvp scenarios. In pvp its a skill issue and knowing to avoid it but incan also see ppl disliking having that counter on top of resolution.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

On 8/27/2022 at 10:02 AM, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

sure i havent. because its probably just as bad to you as your "empowerment" reason is to me

whatever. its not like changes are in our hands anyways and i dont need to convince you out of all people. if you are curious to what i was getting at though (you probably arent) then here:

• crit requirement removed for condi virt. opens options for every condi gear setup that doesnt focus on precision (rabid, dire, grieving, trailblazer etc... viper, meaning you dont need to statswap from chrono/mirage) and also allows bloodsong to be used by builds that might neither condi nor crit (blade gen is blade gen). how in the world is this empowerment, its limitation. counterbalanced by altering duration ofc
• crit chance moved from virt to core (doesnt have to be dueling but it makes the most sense in multiple ways). buffs every power build (including boon chrono builds which you totally didnt forget) except for virt, future proofs future elite specs so it doesnt have to already waste a trait for crit chance. allows swapping from virt/not-virt without needing to statswap. counterbalanced by reverting improved alacrity (explained later)
• void from moved crit chance in virt leaves space for another effect which you could recommend. or not
• danger time crit chance swapped for damage increase, maybe followed by adding additonal sources of slow. self explanatory. or maybe not
• frailty and superiority complex updated to also affect illusions or least phantasms. mesmer suffers from from taking a bunch of traits that doesnt give exactly what it says on the can (improved alacrity is one of them) - that 10% you traited for is maybe only a 5-6% overall increase

but whatever. i dont need to get this through to you or the next person thats going to try pick me apart

The bolded sections are important here.

Why make assumptions about me and what I may or may not do with your responses?  This is a public forum and we are having an open conversation about a topic neither of us have absolute knowledge over.  This conversation allows us to expand our knowledge by talking to people with different viewpoints and experiences and potentially learn something new that may change how we think or solidify our beliefs, and sometimes both.

So no, you don't need to convince me of anything, but if you want to share your thoughts, you might have to actually be clear and concise about them and have confidence that, right or wrong, your thoughts will be correctly interpreted.  And if they aren't you can act on it then rather than borrowing fear from a future that hasn't happened yet.

And yes, since I asked some questions, I do appreciate you taking the time to respond with more detail.  I don't have to agree with any of it but, outside of the bolded stuff you furthered the conversation and provided others with a better understanding of what you felt would be good changes.

As to the actual suggestions, that seems like a lot of work.  Typically Anet will not make that many different changes to different traits and skills that affect multiple builds at the same time.  There are too many stacking changes that the numbers could go very wrong or take a long time to rebalance (given how quickly we see Anet making changes thus far).

Is there a simpler solution you can think of?