Very few change to make Healtempest actually méta.

[zeyeti.8347]

Hello everyone ,

 

I send a mail to Anet support to ask them if they are gonna change stuff about the ele , i am concerned about healtempest , i always wanted to play it , but it lacks a lot of things , and i dont like underperforming cause of my class choice. They told me they are really looking ideas in the forums , which i believe is true : people were complaining about no stab (can be but with a huge tradeoff) and no aegis , and we are getting those with shouts , and that greats ! but really not enough , so 2 ideas of change that could really make a difference for me :

- Invigorating torrents : give régénération and vigor on allies you grant an aura / i would change régéneration into alacrity (and change the gm trait who give alacrity in whatever you want and would actually greatly benefit  alactempest dps too) , so you can take elemental bastion from gm traits (or +15% damage dps version) and still have very decent healing trough your overload (with "unstable conduit" granting an aura when you finish an overload + "powerfull aura" sharing your aura to your subgroup) and your shouts who grant allies aura baseline.

-Elemental attunement : arcane trait who grants a boon to you and allies whenever you change an attunement , i would change the might given from changing to fire , into fury , it will allow you to play arcane as healingtempest , having the attunement reduction cd , + some boon duration , healing on dodging , pulsing revive etc ... and also allow you to NOT TAKE air traitline while healing , for the only purpose to grant fury ... 

 

Tell me what you think about it ? have you other ideas ?

 

Ty , have a nice day.

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[soulknight.9620]

That would just make ele a hfb 2.0. So no. Alac tempest has a lot of good unique stuff it can do and it has tradeoffs (yeah yeah a thing that every elite spec should have). Heal alac tempest needs some changes to alac generation and thats it. Its kinda sad that you have to precast an OL before group engages in encounter, not like any other alac provider. They should just make OL pulse alac or give some of it on OL start and the rest on OL finish.

[zeyeti.8347]

Well if hfb and ham stay like they are , ele is not gonna get more playerbase choice , for me (as you said ) the alac generator is lackluster and you have not a lot of choice to , out of water , in term of healing.  I undertsand you would like to let ele have his uniqueness, but fact is he is underperforming actually and only fan of it play it , no actuall benefit to play it (except 'rebound').

[the krytan assassin.9235]

Tbh i quite like the current spot of HAT, it has been buffed alot with the latest balance patch. Ofcourse there are always some imperfections, but i'd say the main reason you don't see many HAT's around is simply because most ele mains have picked up other classes over the years.  Also ele has only been able to fulfill dps roles over the last years and therefore most of the current ele vets simply prefer dps builds. 

My main critism with HAT currently is their lack of stability on overload as a minor trait instead of major master. You're basically forced to pick it over vigor partysupport incase the encounters has any interrupts.

 

I also agree that limiting Fury to air traitline is pretty silly, it creates an unnecessary difficulty when forming a squad comp. That being said, the vast majority of quick support also have perma Fury uptime and plenty of dps also have some Fury party support. Alongside with heat sync and sand squall Fury is almost always 100% uptime even if you don't run air traitline. 

[Mauti.3520]

IMHO

HAT blasts right now.

The only change I'd like to see in the near future is alac to pulse while overloading rather than being backloaded and maybe reduce the channel time a tad bit, maybe make aftershock instant cast to be used during overloads like Eye of the Storm for some reliable on point aegis...That's about it. 

1. Please never take Alacrity away from Overloads at all. No Aura Share, no Shouts, let us have Utility Skills and Traits to be of choice rather than spam buttons for the sake of "THE BOON" as it is on Druid or Herald rn. Especially Druid is so kitten picking Utility as 3 Spirits are a must. You either have a non spirit utility skill and no good condi cleanse in healing spring or you have healing spring and no utility at all because spirits. That's all the choice you have rn and it would be pretty much the same for Tempest if Alac goes the Aura Share/Shout route.  It's terrible and lazy design and boring as well. They removed spirit jailing unique buffs and instantly jailed Druid again to the same set of passive spam utilities that sorely lack gameplay. Yikes. Would like to spare tempest that kind of fate.

2. You are already free to run Arcane like 90% of the time and I would recommend slotting it baseline and only switch if the occasion arises. No need for fury. Most Quickness DPS buff uptimes of 100%, many dps specs buff it either for themselves or spam it passively for the group. Might and especially Fury are a kind of passive social boon these days.
 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Mauti.3520

[zeyeti.8347]

On 8/26/2022 at 8:54 AM, Mauti.3520 said:

2. You are already free to run Arcane like 90% of the time and I would recommend slotting it baseline and only switch if the occasion arises. No need for fury. Most Quickness DPS buff uptimes of 100%, many dps specs buff it either for themselves or spam it passively for the group. Might and especially Fury are a kind of passive social boon these days.

Commander will have to bother if there are fury provider in his sub , the problem is the same if healtempest , healherald , druid dont get some decent modification (aka buffs and qol) player like me (and i am not alone) who choose efficiency over class love will never play those , basically the fact are :

Ham -> all needed boons , -quickness (+ barrier pulse master)

Hfb -> all needed boons , -alacrity (+ lots of aegis and stab)

None of the healers and support/dps i listed up come even close to those two in terms of healing or boon provider , i know what you gonna tell me , healtempest is the strongest in term of healing ... ofc . But hfb and ham can heal any time they want , there is literally no holes in their heal uptime , while tempest and herald have huge ones (staff from rev. isnt even close to mace for guardian). 

I completely agree that my changes will make you choose 3 shouts as utility , but i dont really see what else you wanna take (ice bow ? hell i hate conjured weapons and talk about lame , use a conjure weapon to spam the auto for healing with a 60 sec cd , hell no ... or signet of water with the useless passiv and a 2000 healing on a 20sec cd ... ) , and somehow overload will still give alac , cause an overload will give you an aura , that you will share , so you could upkeep the shouts for solely healing/aegis/stab right timing and the healtempest is in need to have automated alacrity , cause thats what the ham is doing , the change arenanet made , included that now , without unique boons, all quickness provider will be compared to the firebrand and all alacrity provider to the mech , cause those two are the literal god of those buffs. Dont have to point you out that 1/3 players in endagme choose mech , why not healtempest ? because of all i stated up.

And a good change i think you will agree is to make shouts instant , with no cast time , that would allow to block a cc or "stab" it , while you overload. I have tried , and the feeling when you overload fire to provide might and alacrity , and got interrupted , ... that made me threw my ele , ... she's now my fisherman bank , sole prupose is to keep larva , ... ( i have 5000 hours on ele , and i dont want to touch it again , even with a stick...).

Edited August 28, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Mauti.3520]

Eye of the Storm is already.

[zeyeti.8347]

15 hours ago, Mauti.3520 said:

Eye of the Storm is already.

hopefully it is , would have been strange to have a breakstun with cast time ... all the others need to be like that too ,  shouts from other spec have no cast time , few of them have (like chill to the bone) and ele has only eye of the storm no other one .

[Mauti.3520]

Feel the Burn is an instant cast as well, yet I agree that Flash Freeze and Aftershock could/should be instant cast too.

[Erick Alastor.3917]

On 8/26/2022 at 8:54 AM, Mauti.3520 said:

1. Please never take Alacrity away from Overloads at all. No Aura Share, no Shouts, let us have Utility Skills and Traits to be of choice rather than spam buttons for the sake of "THE BOON" as it is on Druid or Herald rn.

Except you still spam overloads, plus you would be able generate plenty of auras without the need to fill all your utilities for it, so it's not really the same as heral or druid.
But I doubt Anet will change their decision now, so yeah, as you're asking too, at the very least pulsing on F is required.

[soulknight.9620]

Alac heal tempest doesnt need a buff. It needs quality of life changes. Thats it. HAT is rly powerfull atm. Tested it in live enviroment in cm strikes/fractals/raids. A strong pick, but needs some QoL to get past first 5 secs of the encounter without alac. 

[Serephen.3420]

I agree with you for the most part. I haven't enjoyed tempest for a while aside from when I could solo 10man heal. 

But tested it on fractal cm runs including 100cm, which was new for some in the party, got dwd that run with me as HAT running scepter/warhorn. Really liking those core weapon changes though. 

Perhaps if only one of the shouts gave a little alac baseline so you can start the fight with alac as you do your overloads. Like flash freeze (wouldn't wanna waste it on the elite). Currently I don't run flash freeze anymore unless I don't need stab.

13 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Alac heal tempest doesnt need a buff. It needs quality of life changes. Thats it. HAT is rly powerfull atm. Tested it in live enviroment in cm strikes/fractals/raids. A strong pick, but needs some QoL to get past first 5 secs of the encounter without alac. 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Serephen.3420

[Joswi.2635]

Only problem with putting it on auras is it would force you into water traitline to spread that around, which is fine for healers but not so much if you are trying to dps/alac. If they changed it to something like "When you give yourself an aura you give yourself and allies around you alacrity." that might not be too bad. With weapon skills, overloads, and shouts that can apply auras you'd have more freedom in how you apply it and what utility skills you are using depending on how long the duration would be.

[Zunki.3916]

32 minutes ago, Joswi.2635 said:

Only problem with putting it on auras is it would force you into water traitline to spread that around, which is fine for healers but not so much if you are trying to dps/alac. If they changed it to something like "When you give yourself an aura you give yourself and allies around you alacrity." that might not be too bad. With weapon skills, overloads, and shouts that can apply auras you'd have more freedom in how you apply it and what utility skills you are using depending on how long the duration would be.

You could put it on both and make both options viable. No condi spec would take water traitline to aktually use the aura share so that's fine. And no healspecc actually wants to overload on cooldown so that's fine too. But getting an aura from yourself works too, that actually sounds great.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Zunki.3916

[zeyeti.8347]

19 hours ago, Joswi.2635 said:

Only problem with putting it on auras is it would force you into water traitline to spread that around, which is fine for healers but not so much if you are trying to dps/alac. If they changed it to something like "When you give yourself an aura you give yourself and allies around you alacrity." that might not be too bad. With weapon skills, overloads, and shouts that can apply auras you'd have more freedom in how you apply it and what utility skills you are using depending on how long the duration would be.

Well i have to agree on that part , water traitline is literally not effective if you play condi/alacprovider. But if you play power you have 2 traits who actually are pretty darn good for dps power , one who increase +10% damage when target has vulnerability and 2x that effect in water (yeah i know pretty weird while almost all weapons do 0 damage in water...) and anothert who increase also damage +10% once up 75% health treshold , so yes it would be pretty bad for condi tempest alac , but fine for tempest power .

But anyway something need to change for ele (not only tempest)

i personnaly think that tying alacrity to overloads is bad because you could get interrupted or in the need to dodge a deadly blow , and everyone here would agree that having one of your overloads getting shutdown without any benefit , and looking at the cd of your attunement going to 20 secs... is very frustrating , it would be ok if all classes providing kinda the same roles , have mechanics punishing like that .

Just look at mechanist providing auto 25 stacks of might , fury and alacrity 100% uptime afk with 0 risk of interruption...

"When you give yourself an aura you give yourself and allies around you alacrity." that might not be too bad.  

Too bad ? Dude , thats a freaking great idea !!!!! I hope anet reads you anyday.

Edited August 31, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Labjax.2465]

On 8/31/2022 at 11:56 AM, zeyeti.8347 said:

i personnaly think that tying alacrity to overloads is bad because you could get interrupted or in the need to dodge a deadly blow , and everyone here would agree that having one of your overloads getting shutdown without any benefit , and looking at the cd of your attunement going to 20 secs... is very frustrating , it would be ok if all classes providing kinda the same roles , have mechanics punishing like that .

How easily interruptable overloads are (including the need to interrupt them to dodge) is easily the most frustrating part of tempest to me by a mile. Having your signature best abilities be effectively useless because of common and normally trivial things like "boss changes position" or "boss drops the 1000th red circle in a minute that can interrupt you and you don't have aegis"... ugh. I must really like how tempest plays otherwise that I put up with it. I do really enjoy the element switching aspect of ele in general, but the behavior of overloads gets so demoralizing sometimes.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Really I've given up on major reworks, the best we can hope for now is that they merge the Alacrity/healing auras together and give us a bit of barrier generation for allies. It'll never be meta until we have sustained healing outside of water and a way to prevent one-hit KOs without Rebound (which is why HAM and HealScourge excel due to the way barrier protects from excessive damage).

 

"But that would make Ele too OP!" Firebrand and HAM both literally have "fart xyz" buttons; you press a button and it just gives everything out, they're basically LI builds in comparison. Ele is complex gameplay to do the same things, so it should be rewarded as such. I'd even go so far as to say Ele should be the strongest support in the game because it takes work to make it work.

 

It still wouldn't be the first pick even then because its not LI and never will be.

 

Honestly, as someone who plays both Tempest and Druid, I'd say that right now even Druid is in a better state. Their healing weapon doesn't do zero damage, and can target allies, their ability to provide all boons automatically brings in Alacrity and doesn't affect their healing, but actually increases it slightly and they can heal allies outside of their transform while still upkeeping Alacrity (no tradeoffs), their revive doesn't require a specific attunment to port allies to them, and their supportive pets don't take up utility slots and aren't vulnerable to CC, not to mention their ability to swap weapons and pets means they can change roles in an instant.

 

There's alot more and this is just a basic list, players who think Ele has some big advantage just don't know what they're talking about. Try playing it for 6k hours like me then we'll see.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Labjax.2465]

So I had a wild thought about overloads. Prob obvious to some, but I did not realize you can use Lighting Flash (the ele teleport) while doing an overload and it won't interrupt it. So my thought was, add something to base tempest capability (ideally, so it doesn't become another annoying tradeoff in the trait line) along the lines of...

"successfully completing an overload resets the cooldown of Lightning Flash (in PvE only)"

The idea being that if you use Lightning Flash skillfully, you can move yourself in and out of bad while in the middle of overloads as needed. Adding to ele skill cap? Yes. But the upside is, it uses already existing functionality and doesn't require changing anything about overloads themselves. All it would be adding is a synergy between the teleport and overloads such that you can attack one of tempest's problems with skill... moving out of bad before it interrupts you. It doesn't completely solve the problem of targeted CC from enemies messing up your overloads, but I think it would fit the already high-movement style of dagger tempest nicely.

I would post this in its own thread, but I'm afraid some ele expert is going to go to town on something I've missed here, so I am not brave enough to do that right now. 😛

[zeyeti.8347]

Yeah lightning flash , you talk about the skill who port you away from a 900 range and deal mosquito damage the area you port to on a 40 secs cd ... , just look at "blink" or "shift signet" both are on very lower cd (20 and 25  i think) have 1200 range and breakstun ... and shift signet has incredibly powerfull passiv effect . dont need to point you out what the problem is here .

Just compare the might provider from ele and mechanist or hfb , mecha have a 600 range aotomated might provider : his robot attacking ....Hfb spit out might with mantras , give might when crit. and staff 4 who even with his nerf is one large op healing skill (easy to interrupt ? you are an hfb if you dont play with stand your ground ...) Ele has a 180 area pulsing might provider , yes you can extend boon with warhorn 4 fire , but you have to stay in that little 180 area to have yousrelf 25 might and then  share it ... how overlly complicated can it be , choose auto might provider , or the weird complicated way ? My problem here is any way you look ele providing something , other class provide it easier and better. Only trump card the ele has is rebound .