Cele has to go

[senftube.6081]

Anet really stop it Now! WvW Roaming is so hard plagued by this carry Set it sucks! 

[SleepyBat.9034]

Just now, Yunari.9065 said:

Anet really stop it Now! WvW Roaming is so hard plagued by this carry Set it sucks! 

"Cele has to go" do you have any idea how many builds that would kill? It doesn't "need to go", it needs to be properly balanced.

[senftube.6081]

It can't be balanced. Either it is to good or it is bad. This set as it is now is a jack for everything and whith the boonspam it makes busted things even stronger.

[SleepyBat.9034]

2 minutes ago, Yunari.9065 said:

It can't be balanced. Either it is to good or it is bad. This set as it is now is a jack for everything and whith the boonspam it makes busted things even stronger.

That's false, they haven't tried balancing it. Obviously it can't be balanced if they never try. They should probably lower all the secondary stats, like Healing power, Concentration, Expertise by a certain amount. Then wait 6 months or so and see what happens.

[Dawdler.8521]

Let's count the armor sets on metabattle roaming to see what's plaguing WvW, if I didnt miss some:

9 Celestial
18 Marauder (or mostly Marauder mixes)
11 Berserker (or mostly Berserker mixes)
6 Trailblazer (or mostly Trailblazer mixes)

Conclusion: Buff condi, nerf power, delete Marauder.

What, it's not what people want?

Edited August 29, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[SleepyBat.9034]

3 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Let's count the armor sets on metabattle roaming to see what's plaguing WvW, if I didnt miss some:

9 Celestial
18 Marauder (or mostly Marauder mixes)
11 Berserker (or mostly Berserker mixes)
6 Trailblazer (or mostly Trailblazer mixes)

Conclusion: Buff condi, nerf power, delete Marauder.

What, it's not what people want?

Amazing.

[Avion Blade.4869]

+ of using full Celestial:

1. Versatility

2. Boon Builds benefit most from celestial + Boon selected traits

3. Starter Set with level 80 booster to get by.

4. Punishes opponents who blow off their cool-downs the first 10 seconds of engaging you.

 

- of using full Celestial:

1. Does not provide peak performance in any single playstyle.

2. Can't down or stomp certain players/builds and can't survive against certain players/builds.

3.  Dependent on non-interrupted rotation to survive anything or get the downs/stomps which are possible.

4. You are punished if you blow your cool-downs the first 10 seconds of engaging the opponent(s).

 

 

Personally I mix Cele as base then perk with Assassin, Berserker and Marauder trinkets. I still want to chip away at their HP over time with power dps and some condi while being somewhat tanky and can mend a bit. With perking a bit on dps the boons really increase the damage on spiking power especially with sigil of severance.

 

More Celly + DPS > full Celestial, but fully Celestial can respond against a wasted DPS bursts.

 

Celestial seems like a problem probably because of the cool-down nerfs a while back. Longer cool-downs means less burst per given time and numbers in team play more of a role.

 

So when roaming and you want to beat a full celly, you have to perk somewhere. Because for me, the most difficult fights are honestly celly vs celly.

 

 

 

[SleepyBat.9034]

8 minutes ago, Avion Blade.4869 said:

1. Does not provide peak performance in any single playstyle.

2. Can't down or stomp certain players/builds and can't survive against certain players/builds.

3.  Dependent on non-interrupted rotation to survive anything or get the downs/stomps which are possible.

Obviously these rules don't apply to Cele Harbinger.

[Avion Blade.4869]

1 minute ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Obviously these rules don't apply to Cele Harbinger.

 

Because the elite mechanic already gives bonus dps while blighting, oh yeah I understand lol.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Thank you, no. I don't want to restrict gear sets like they do in sPvP. If you have issues with particular skills and combos and how they work with the Cele feel free to visit those Class subforums and post your findings there for suggested changes to those skills. 

[Guirssane.7082]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Let's count the armor sets on metabattle roaming to see what's plaguing WvW, if I didnt miss some:

9 Celestial
18 Marauder (or mostly Marauder mixes)
11 Berserker (or mostly Berserker mixes)
6 Trailblazer (or mostly Trailblazer mixes)

Conclusion: Buff condi, nerf power, delete Marauder.

What, it's not what people want?

Metabattle 😂

---

2 Celestial roamers can't even kill themselves, Time to kill is infinite, it's super boring. 

I remember when roaming actually took skill without Cele. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Guirssane.7082

[Rider.6024]

I feel like if cele concentration and expertise were removed then it would be in a great spot

 

theres no precedence for it so I could be wrong....lol (there was nothing wrong w cele before they buffed the kitten out of it)

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

Metabattle 😂

---

2 Celestial roamers can't even kill themselves, Time to kill is infinite, it's super boring. 

 

 

Um, this isn't sPvP, that's ok if cele fights cele, WvW isn't a 1v1 ESports arena that they tried to make sPvP into. If people were watching that feed they might switch to another. That's also ok. But that could have also been two roamers looking to be able to be hit by havoc and have some odds to get away. We need those options. Now note I run Power, Condi & Cele as the specs make sense for the toon I am on, so I am not coming at this from one view point when discussing roaming. ANet has been working towards each class having at least one elite that does better in Cele. To me why that's why we have seen more Cele builds. I think Zerk/Condi/Sustain/Cele should all have places at the table since you need to build what you might run into depending on your playstyle.  

Edited August 30, 2022 by TheGrimm.5624

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 hours ago, Rider.6024 said:

I feel like if cele concentration and expertise were removed then it would be in a great spot

 

theres no precedence for it so I could be wrong....lol (there was nothing wrong w cele before they buffed the kitten out of it)

 

I won't say yeah or nay here, but Anet thought is was under utilized which is why they added those additions when they updated Cele. So without more from them it seemed like per whatever they used it was underperforming. But we can't tell based on  notes when the Concentration and Expertise was added. My main point is Cele should have a place at the table, as should sustain builds which are often aided by Cele. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Yeah, removing it worked great for PvP. Nothing like losing half the viable builds in the game in one fell swoop! Of course, it couldn't be class balance that's the real problem, nope.

 

Remember folks, removing Celestial fixed PvP, and it'll fix WvW too.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Yeah, removing it worked great for PvP. Nothing like losing half the viable builds in the game in one fell swoop! Of course, it couldn't be class balance that's the real problem, nope.

Remember folks, removing Celestial fixed PvP, and it'll fix WvW too.

I moved to spvp and quit wvw roaming, I'm having way better times there. Best decision I've made in the game in fact. I don't miss fighting this garbage called cele, even remotely.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

I won't say yeah or nay here, but Anet thought is was under utilized which is why they added those additions when they updated Cele. So without more from them it seemed like per whatever they used it was underperforming. But we can't tell based on  notes when the Concentration and Expertise was added. My main point is Cele should have a place at the table, as should sustain builds which are often aided by Cele. 

Based upon data we have, Marauder is currently the most common set in the game in all game modes, as it offers an intense balance between damage and survivability, especially on low health classes. (It also crit caps extremely easily compared to other sets.)

 

Everything points to Cele still being underutilised (only a few builds even require it), despite the buffs. Its just the players who complain about it don't know how the game works or how to counter it (like that cleanses reduce its power by half), and most Cele builds are hybrid builds that take other stats like Marauder mixed with it as wearing full Celestial is overkill in most situations even in WvW outside of maybe Elementalist, sometimes also on Thief though thats also very situational.

 

(Harbinger Cele build has nothing to do with Cele and everything to do with Harbinger.)
 

And yes, before Concentration and Expertise were added no one used it anywhere.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

14 hours ago, Yunari.9065 said:

Anet really stop it Now! WvW Roaming is so hard plagued by this carry Set it sucks! 

stealth --->burst, try to one shot = cele don't die and you are in trouble.. just say it lol. You can have my cele, if  anet also removes stealth.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Yellow Rainbow.6142

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

9 hours ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

Metabattle 😂

---

2 Celestial roamers can't even kill themselves, Time to kill is infinite, it's super boring. 

I remember when roaming actually took skill without Cele. 

what this skill you are talking about roaming?

stealth burst? or if you losing fight, put nike shoes?

[Aeolus.3615]

15 hours ago, Yunari.9065 said:

It can't be balanced. Either it is to good or it is bad. This set as it is now is a jack for everything and whith the boonspam it makes busted things even stronger.

Buff counter meta towards the boon spam then, chrono is very good at removing boons.

Imo even spellbreaker should be buffed towards VS certain boons like quickness, in pvp enviroment Anet carries way to much the lamers wit their perma boon pve system, at least spellbreaker should prioritize quikness on boon removal that would help even on small scale against perma boon leechers.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Dawdler.8521]

11 hours ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

Metabattle 😂

 

Challenge accepted then!

Going to guildjen which has made the count real easy:

20 Celestial

33 Power

9 Condition

Conclusion: buff condi, nerf power, delete marauder and berserker.

Happy?

[Zyreva.1078]

3 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Based upon data we have,

Which data? We don't have actual data about what players use and even if we had, it wouldn't mean that much, becaúse many players in WvW run bad builds.

Quote

Marauder is currently the most common set in the game in all game modes, as it offers an intense balance between damage and survivability, especially on low health classes. (It also crit caps extremely easily compared to other sets.)

Doubt it is actually the most commonly run set, and even if it was, it just means players don't run actually good builds. Also nothing comes anywhere close to the dmg + sustain cele provides. Mara is nothing special in comparison and on par with other 4-stat gear. It is only bis for (power) thief builds and most of those struggle vs anything cele.

Quote

Everything points to Cele still being underutilised (only a few builds even require it), despite the buffs. Its just the players who complain about it don't know how the game works or how to counter it (like that cleanses reduce its power by half), and most Cele builds are hybrid builds that take other stats like Marauder mixed with it as wearing full Celestial is overkill in most situations even in WvW outside of maybe Elementalist, sometimes also on Thief though thats also very situational.

Nonsense.

Quote

(Harbinger Cele build has nothing to do with Cele and everything to do with Harbinger.)

It's both.

Quote

And yes, before Concentration and Expertise were added no one used it anywhere.

Not true either. It was used on some builds which already made it better than like 90% of other stat combinations.

Edited August 30, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Guirssane.7082]

14 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Challenge accepted then!

Going to guildjen which has made the count real easy:

20 Celestial

33 Power

9 Condition

Conclusion: buff condi, nerf power, delete marauder and berserker.

Happy?

Yes, look at the "effectiveness" of every type of build now. 90% of the Cele build are categorized as "meta" where the "power" build are just "good". 

Stop going tunnel vision mode with your argument. 

You're not going to win a Cele build as a power build against people of equal skill. That's a fact.

[Dawdler.8521]

Just now, Guirssane.7082 said:

Yes, look at the "effectiveness" of every type of build now. 90% of the Cele build are categorized as "meta" where the "power" build are just "good". 

Stop going tunnel vision mode with your argument. 

You're not going to win a Cele build as a power build against people of equal skill. That's a fact.

Its anecdotal true but the real question is:

Is it more or less anecdotal than yelling CELE HAS TO GO on the forums?

[Guirssane.7082]

2 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Its anecdotal true but the real question is:

Is it more or less anecdotal than yelling CELE HAS TO GO on the forums?

Just remove expertise and concentration, it's that simple. Like it was before. Why should Cele get bonus stats?

Edited August 30, 2022 by Guirssane.7082