Can we scale back wvw legendary armor requirements?

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If people are already comming into wvw for that reason then it seems to be doing ok? Make that acquisition faster and chances are people will come there specifically to semi-afk through the ticket acquisition. Right now at the very least chances are they'd bore themselves to -figurative- death, which might as well push them into actively participating in the content. And in the end if there's a goal connected to bringing people in, it's the active participation and not fastest/easiest/most convenient/passive reward acquisition since that does nothing.

I think the issue is that WvW is the lesser of three evils for a lot of people.  So you aren't going to have them leave, you're just going to have the bad for everyone scenario where you have bored AFKers in WvW.  This is why I think the best solution is to add open world PvE armour, and then the rewards can be increased in WvW without risk of a bigger influx. 

 

7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Some people try to build -imo a blatantly dishonest one- an argument about "acquiring tickets faster" (..because they want leggy specifically) on the backs of some of the "improve wvw reward system" complaints. Improving reward system in wvw between wvw participants is rarely based on an easier leggy acquisition. So yes, if the target is to make the wvw content more rewarding then that is the answer. Otherwise it's a false reasoning looking to latch onto a different discussion in order to get what those few people want (which is grab the leggies easiest/fastest way and not care about the actual reward system of wvw).

There was also this part in my post: (or... you know, reward tracks)

Overally people not interested in actual reward system of the gamemode should stop pretending that's their reasoning, when it's rather clear what they're specifically targetting here. As a reminder, in case you've missed it, OP already said he's fine with substituting effort with time in the past. So now he started going for it in a wvw (which is perfectly fine) except... Now the longer time is not acceptable and he keeps comparing it directly to said higher effort route. All it is, is a constant bargaining about making it easier/faster, no matter what.

I think both things are an issue.  Currently the best option for legendary armour for a lot of PvEers is for them to do a lot of WvW, which I don't think benefits anyone.  In addition to this, WvW isn't very rewarding.

To me, these problems are linked, because I think it is difficult to improve the WvW rewards without adding an open world PvE option for legendary armour (because any added rewards to WvW make it more appealing to PvE farmers - unless the goal is to bring those people into WvW).

 

I have no idea if people are being dishonest or not, but I do think it's possible to care about both.  I also think it's possible to only care about legendary armour, but still be correct in saying that WvW rewards need improving.

[VeriBeri.9528]

Came to this forum, to check if restructuring changes will affect skirmish tickets, but seeing this thread, I'm guessing it's not going to happen.
Last year I decided to try and make WvW armor, got 2 legendary pieces and 1 ascended, before I got so burnt out, that I had to quit the game entirely for several months. I wanted to get back to it now, but I don't think I will, because I just counted, and still have 5k tickets (14 weeks of this part time job) to grind. This is beyond ridiculous, to expect a player to commit 13-18h a week to a single game mode, when the average person can game 2-3h a day. That means, they won't be able to do anything else, except grinding TIME for skirmish tickets. Meanwhile, full clear of raids takes 4-5 hours per week. Even if I enjoyed WvW that much, it's just not the way it should be. Time shouldn't be a factor for a pvp based reward, so why not make it scale with actual activities, or something that makes sense? People who mainly play WvW, will still sink hours into it, while others, interested mostly in legendary armor, won't have to. Before someone answers, that I should go get my armor in raids: yeah, I am, it's just a shame, that raids require a group of 10 people organized on a specific date and time, and that's why I wanted something less obliging, but looks like I'm never going to finish this one after all.
The worst part of this thread, are people not wanting anything to change, because they've suffered already, or they enjoy playing the game mode, so it's no difference to them. That's just one point of view, but as clearly visible, there is plenty of people unhappy about it. Games are made to be rewarding and enjoyable, not to count minutes until freedom. Why not make things better, instead of gatekeeping? Legendary armor was added, when there were only 4 raid wings, now there is more, and strike missions, while WvW rewards are left untouched. I actually think that everyone, who spent their tickets on legendary armor, should be compensated. Refunding their tickets, to spend on new skins, or legendary WvW weapon should be better, than vain pride over wasted time. This is a really bad game design, and I don't understand defending it.

[Zok.4956]

6 hours ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Maybe that's what it is intended as.  If it is I think that's a core design mistake.  I'd like to see it as an incentive to join and try wvw, rather than a reward for the people who already enjoy it.

An incentive to try out WvW is the Gift of Battle.  And I hear a lot of complaints from PvE players that this already takes way too long in WvW even if it only requires a few hours and you can advance it with WvW dailies. So, anything that takes much longer to complete as the Gift of Battle would (for many PvE players) be a worse incentive to try WvW than the GoB.

[Zok.4956]

6 hours ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

So nothing for people who enjoy open world content?  By those standards, open world should have its own legendary armor set

Sure, why not. PvE openworld and PvE instanced challenging content do have important differences in player base. But then the openworld-raid-armor would also probably replace skill with more timegating.

And vice-versa I would like to get legy weapons just from playing WvW (and then I wouldn't care if PvE players could get the GoB from killing Behe 😉)

 

[Zok.4956]

7 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

The raid armor for PvE players, the WvW armor for players that play WvW and the PvP armor for the players that like to play PvP. 

The raid legy armor is for raid players, not for openworld players. It was created "as a reward for defeating raid bosses" (Anets words, not mine).

PvE-Openworld and PvE-instanced-challenging-content can be seen as two sub-type game-modes of PvE and they are not seen as different game modes from the beginning because there where no raids in GW2 until HoT released.

It is somehow similar to sPvP and WvW. Both are a PvP game mode but different enough that they are (seen as) two diffferent game modes.

 

[Endilbiach.4132]

3 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Sure, why not. PvE openworld and PvE instanced challenging content do have important differences in player base. But then the openworld-raid-armor would also probably replace skill with more timegating.

And vice-versa I would like to get legy weapons just from playing WvW (and then I wouldn't care if PvE players could get the GoB from killing Behe 😉)

 

I mean to be fair, you can get gen 1's almost exclusively from wvw if you really want to, the only thing you CANNOT get through wvw is a Gift of Exploration.  Much the same as how you can't get a Gift of Battle from pve.

The only grey area is 500 dungeon currency.  I think you could get that grinding reward tracks but that is a lot of dungeon reward tracks.

Well, 2 and a quarter dungeon reward tracks it looks like?  You get a bag of 60 currency 4 times every track so that's 240 per track meaning 480 in 2 passes plus getting to the 7th reward one more time.  So yeah literally everything but the Gift of Exploration is feasible.  Gen 2's and Gen 3's are obviously a very, very different animal.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Endilbiach.4132
Did the math.

[Labjax.2465]

I want to add some more emphasis to a point that I think Mariyuuna touched on earlier in the thread, which is that legendary benefits are not what they once were (they are a lot better). And personally, I'm not sure the design or mentality surrounding them has caught up, which may be part of where the contention about them comes from.

To try to put it in perspective, the legendary armory was added on July 13, 2021, so unless I'm missing some details here, that means for most of the game's life, legendaries were something that give you stat swapping and a fancy skin, and that was it; and the rest has only been around for little more than a year. In the context of the prior benefits, I think it made more sense the way they are implemented. If you wanted to be decked out in legendaries (or whatever maximum amount of them you could get as they came out), you might not literally become a legendary player, but you were going to have to play a lot in a number of different game modes. And in the context of the prior benefits, stat swapping alone prob not that useful to more than speed clear type of players; a fancy skin, cool and all the more cool the more rare it is. A special recognition of just how invested you are into the game.

Then came the legendary armory, which not only added a major fashion wars benefit (free transmutation on any legendary item), the addition of the armory aspect of it added onto the stat swapping now meant you are getting items that effectively mean you never have to get gear for that slot again for any character (with only a few exceptions, like some weapons where you technically need more than one to fill all the slots).

There was also the Return To achievements, which added an amulet that is relatively straightforward to get compared to most legendaries (albeit still a pretty significant time investment) such that a lot of people who had never gotten a legendary item prior would be more likely to get an introduction to having one and get that introduction with the full benefits of the legendary armory.

In short, not only did anet make the benefits of having a legendary way more significant, they added a significant entry point for being introduced to legendaries as an end-game goal.

But the design of most legendaries and, it appears to me, some of the player mentality about them, is still oriented around the pre-armory legendary experience. Which would not be surprising (in fact, expected) considering how recent the addition of the legendary armory is.

I can personally attest that in 2014-15 or so, I had some interest in going after Bolt or Incinerator and I even apparently got the gift of mastery back then, but I don't remember ever feeling like I had to have a legendary. It was this herculean goal that I'd maybe finish one day and I don't remember it feeling like a big deal if I didn't. Fast forward to returning to the game this year and my mindset about legendaries is almost entirely different. I find myself wanting to get full legendaries for the massive convenience upgrade, despite it being a huge goal to do so starting at close to square one on them as I did when I came back, and have spent a huge amount of time and energy making progress on that goal. Something I doubt I ever would have considered prior to the legendary armory.

Edited to add: And though they are still as "optional" as they ever were, I think it's also fair to say they are more distinguishable as a primary end-game goal now and the drastic increase in their benefits + the introduction of them to those who hadn't had one prior has almost certainly changed the perception about them for a significant number of players from being a super rare prestige item you only go for if you really really want one to being more like components to earn in the ultimate end-game of the gearing/cosmetic experience.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, VeriBeri.9528 said:

Last year I decided to try and make WvW armor, got 2 legendary pieces and 1 ascended, before I got so burnt out, that I had to quit the game entirely for several months. I wanted to get back to it now, but I don't think I will, because I just counted, and still have 5k tickets (14 weeks of this part time job) to grind.

I dislike playing the debbie downer side of the discussion but this post goes a bit far for me. Welcome to the forums, but I disagree.

 

So issue 1, if you feel its a grind then it is and its not for you. WvW Leggo was meant for people just playing the game mode. WvW is very lacking in any sense of reward and as the joke goes, your reward for winning is the option to lose next week and fight a bigger side. 

 

7 hours ago, VeriBeri.9528 said:

This is beyond ridiculous, to expect a player to commit 13-18h a week to a single game mode, when the average person can game 2-3h a day.

 

A day, 7 *2 = 14, 7 *3 = 21. So that is in your mark. I admit I am a PvXer meaning not all time is spent in WvW (though most is) but even by your stat people should be able to make it. WvW is the 24hr 365 fight. Its meant as a 24hr game meaning there is all hours people can choose to spend there. The Leggo armor being the highest tier in game should not be rewarded as thanks for logging in gear. That's called exotic and you can get that here as well. Spend some time and you are awarded with easy to get Ascended as well which is the same stats. I have countered and will still do so that Leggo should have more stats than Ascended since it requires more, but disagree. Keep Ascended and Leggo the same, what makes Leggo a more valuable set remains the ability to adjust on the fly, and that was before the Armory. After, even more so, no stat differences.

 

7 hours ago, VeriBeri.9528 said:

 

That means, they won't be able to do anything else, except grinding TIME for skirmish tickets.

 

Again, what grind? The rest of us just play.

 

7 hours ago, VeriBeri.9528 said:

Meanwhile, full clear of raids takes 4-5 hours per week.

 

Then why not get raid gear and bring it out to WvW? I was one of those asking for Leggo armor to be added to WvW since I don't raid. I am happy they added it even though it meant a longer play time to acquire, which wasn't a real basis since would have spent 21+ hours already in WvW for a week supporting our server.  If it only tales 4-5 hours per week acquire it there. 

 

7 hours ago, VeriBeri.9528 said:

 

Even if I enjoyed WvW that much, it's just not the way it should be. Time shouldn't be a factor for a pvp based reward, so why not make it scale with actual activities, or something that makes sense?

 

That is a discussion for the reward threads and a different topic. Not saying no, but different bigger thread.

 

7 hours ago, VeriBeri.9528 said:

 

People who mainly play WvW, will still sink hours into it, while others, interested mostly in legendary armor, won't have to.

 

That's an issue. So that was the compromise between over coming content versus spending time fighting others. The point of Raid gear was to award those that organized and excelled at fighting content while also allowing those that fight each other options over longer times to also get rewarded which is how we got to this time difference. Just giving nothing to those that fought each other due to kill trading and such there needed to be a balance between people gaming a system and people playing a game mode. Hence why it would take longer.

 

7 hours ago, VeriBeri.9528 said:

Before someone answers, that I should go get my armor in raids: yeah, I am, it's just a shame, that raids require a group of 10 people organized on a specific date and time, and that's why I wanted something less obliging, but looks like I'm never going to finish this one after all.

 

Why? In a zerg you make a lot of tickets. Even as mostly a roamer/havoc you can get there.

 

7 hours ago, VeriBeri.9528 said:

The worst part of this thread, are people not wanting anything to change, because they've suffered already, or they enjoy playing the game mode, so it's no difference to them. That's just one point of view, but as clearly visible, there is plenty of people unhappy about it.

 

Yes and no, WvW is endgame. Its about building up. I get it, I entered WvW in green gear at min level and yes it was harsh, its the current perception it should be balanced, its not, its end game. sPvP is your practice ground. PvE is your gearing level. You can level up in WvW but its hard but rewarding too, but its meant to be. Read my post history I am not saying no to new players, but new players expecting max gear day one, no, than it wouldn't be end game, it would be sPvP.

 

7 hours ago, VeriBeri.9528 said:

WvW rewards are left untouched. I actually think that everyone, who spent their tickets on legendary armor, should be compensated. Refunding their tickets, to spend on new skins, or legendary WvW weapon should be better, than vain pride over wasted time. This is a really bad game design, and I don't understand defending it.

 

Don't get WvW players wrong, time spent here might have been better spent elsewhere, but don't also remove WvW from being endgame and making that time spent have less value. Instead ask for more ways that WvW might better reward old and new players to reach that end state with actions that are WvW orientated versus can be done via AFK actions. 

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

1 hour ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

I mean to be fair, you can get gen 1's almost exclusively from wvw if you really want to, the only thing you CANNOT get through wvw is a Gift of Exploration.  Much the same as how you can't get a Gift of Battle from pve.

The only grey area is 500 dungeon currency.  I think you could get that grinding reward tracks but that is a lot of dungeon reward tracks.

Well, 2 and a quarter dungeon reward tracks it looks like?  You get a bag of 60 currency 4 times every track so that's 240 per track meaning 480 in 2 passes plus getting to the 7th reward one more time.  So yeah literally everything but the Gift of Exploration is feasible.  Gen 2's and Gen 3's are obviously a very, very different animal.

 

The Gift of Exploration is a pretty big ask in my opinion.  Even as someone who prefers open world PvE, world completion for the sake of legendary is tiring.  I think either selling it for some amount of skirmish tickets, or introducing a WvW legendary set (probably a flashier version of the Mistforged Hero set).

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

23 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Again, what grind? The rest of us just play.

I think there are two groups who feel grind:

 

1) PvE players who'd rather be in regular open world, but don't have a legendary path.

2) WvW players whose personal life doesn't fit neatly into "15 hours per week", but feel like the tickets are backloaded so don't want to only do part of the track each week (which also makes the journey very long).

 

Obviously there are people in this thread who don't fall into those two camps, but that's a LOT of people.

 

I definitely think Legendary Armour should be difficult/time consuming to get.  But it should also be fun, and realistically something that can be done around real life. 

[yoni.7015]

8 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

1) PvE players who'd rather be in regular open world, but don't have a legendary path.

The WvW legendary armor is not primarily meant for them. They have a legendary path with the emboldened raid mode. 
But sure, for them it might feel like a grind, but that’s not a reason to change anything. 

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

16 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

The WvW legendary armor is not primarily meant for them. They have a legendary path with the emboldened raid mode. 
But sure, for them it might feel like a grind, but that’s not a reason to change anything. 

Of course the WvW legendary armour isn't primarily meant for them.  But unfortunately WvW is the closest thing to open world PvE that has a path to legendary.

 

As I mentioned earlier, the emboldened mode doesn't fix the main obstacle to raiding, which is finding a group that is available at the same time as you, and fitting it into your schedule.

[yoni.7015]

21 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

 

As I mentioned earlier, the emboldened mode doesn't fix the main obstacle to raiding, which is finding a group that is available at the same time as you, and fitting it into your schedule.

I am pretty sure that this obstacle can be overcome. There are raid training guilds that have raid groups for every day, you could just make your own group or use the LFG. 
If all that doesn’t work for you then sure, get your legendary armor in WvW. But then you shouldn’t complain about the rate of acquisition when WvW players, for whom the armor is primarily meant, say it’s fine. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Arheundel.6451]

On 9/3/2022 at 2:47 AM, Endilbiach.4132 said:

That's if I want to literally not play the game.  That's also if your server has such a commander, and if such a commander is on during the hours you can pull this trick.  Know what's not a problem?  Buying raid wing completion.  Log on at roughly any o'clock, check LFG, pick a group of your choice.

No, the Raid armor is much easier to get, much cheaper to make, gets you all kinds of other achievements and unique skins as you work to complete it, and is generally more rewarding.  WvW armor exists as the carrot on the other end of the stick that's used to beat people into the ground for not wanting to raid, and costs significantly more.

WvW legendary armor is harder to get ...because it saves the sanity of people like me who could not stand to play hours while being subject to vile verbal abuse from toddlers....who couldn't finish their run in a timely  manner.....or quit after one wipe...or cry at every turn for whatever reason. A compromise I was willingly to make and maybe others can do the same....if you enjoy wvw, then the time spent playing it, should be no issue. 

I write this as a player who hates pve and completed 3x sets of legendary armor between wvw and pvp within 1.5 years 

If you can stand the company of the raid community...yeah the legendary armor is easier to get there...but the mental power cost makes it not really worth it...and those skins are ugly AF 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

12 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

I am pretty sure that this obstacle can be overcome. There are raid training guilds that have raid groups for every day, you could just make your own group or use the LFG. 

We shouldn't derail the thread with a focus specifically on PvE armour, so just to quickly respond:

 

(1) Yes, in a lot of cases it can be overcome by a lot of people.  Not everyone has a schedule that accommodates it though.

(2) It doesn't matter if it can be overcome, it matters whether the obstacle appears more unappealing than the alternatives.

 

As it stands, there being three unappealing, or unachievable options for open world PvE players, is not a good thing.  As a result, they will choose the least bad option, which for a lot of people will be WvW grinding.

 

I don't really understand the level of pushback this gets.

 

"I enjoy WvW!" - "Great! Go play it!"

"I enjoy sPvP!" - "Great! Go play it!"

"I enjoy instanced PvE!" - "Great! Go play it!"

"I enjoy open world PvE!" - "Find an organised group and play instanced PvE instead!"

 

I mean, I actively support the idea of adding legendary weapons to PvP and WvW.  Why is there such opposition to letting a huge proportion of the player base do the thing they enjoy doing? 

[VeriBeri.9528]

2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I dislike playing the debbie downer side of the discussion but this post goes a bit far for me. Welcome to the forums, but I disagree.

 

So issue 1, if you feel its a grind then it is and its not for you. WvW Leggo was meant for people just playing the game mode. WvW is very lacking in any sense of reward and as the joke goes, your reward for winning is the option to lose next week and fight a bigger side. 

 

(...)

 

Don't get WvW players wrong, time spent here might have been better spent elsewhere, but don't also remove WvW from being endgame and making that time spent have less value. Instead ask for more ways that WvW might better reward old and new players to reach that end state with actions that are WvW orientated versus can be done via AFK actions. 

 

Honestly, I can see that you answered to my post, but I don't think you paid attention while reading it, or just cut the parts that suit you. Can't see how are those answers relevant to anything I've said. My main point was to rebalance the whole pip thing, to make it faster, and for example add more skirmish tickets at the end of the week, if you actually played actively. So, more tickets for X amount of claimed/defended objectives, bigger objectives = more tickets. That would give players a reason to win, and have more strategic approach, not just run around with 50 people, flipping camps for participation. I don't see how would that hurt anyone, except those, who want to gatekeep others from getting legendary armor. More people having legendaries makes no difference to you, but can make all the difference to said people. Don't forget it's just a game, and not everyone has the luxury to get into organized full clear raid every week, so WvW being time flexible is the next best guess, as the legendary armor is the ONLY endgame reward this game has to offer. Just, committing average 15h a week for half a year to get it, is a bit much.
You might call WvW endgame, but in reality it's as much endgame, as open world content - people run around in toughness gear, tag everything, get some loot bags, and that's it. The difference is, in open world you get rewards based on type of event - in WvW you get same rewards, whether you captured 10 castles and 20 keeps, or tagged 1 person and went afk for 8 minutes. If people enjoy it, cool, but to me it's a mindless grind, similar to Halloween Labyrinth, just with a useless time gated reward mechanic. You can't "just play" to get legendary armor in WvW, because even if you play ~1h a day, you won't get tickets for anything, except maybe ascended.

[Ganelon.3726]

I don't think it should.  This is legendary armor.  Not your typical from the local mom and pop armor shop.  GW2 having horizontal progression means this is the end of the line.  Why complain about wvwvw taking long but then saying PvE ends up looking better?  Find or make groups for what you need.  Socialize, this is an mmo.  Make friends and have fun. 

 

Either join a guild that does this content and teaches it or make a guild for it.  Recruit people for what you want.  You may not be successful right away but eventually should find people...

 

I'm tired of seeing people complain and want things made easier for them when it sounds like they just don't want to have patience, take their time and find people.  Being HANDED everything makes it less meaningful once obtained...

[SweetPotato.7456]

Simple answer no, it is already way easier to get than raid legendary. ask me why i didn't get the raid legendary. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, VeriBeri.9528 said:

 

Honestly, I can see that you answered to my post, but I don't think you paid attention while reading it, or just cut the parts that suit you. Can't see how are those answers relevant to anything I've said. My main point was to rebalance the whole pip thing, to make it faster, and for example add more skirmish tickets at the end of the week, if you actually played actively. So, more tickets for X amount of claimed/defended objectives, bigger objectives = more tickets. That would give players a reason to win, and have more strategic approach, not just run around with 50 people, flipping camps for participation. I don't see how would that hurt anyone, except those, who want to gatekeep others from getting legendary armor. More people having legendaries makes no difference to you, but can make all the difference to said people. Don't forget it's just a game, and not everyone has the luxury to get into organized full clear raid every week, so WvW being time flexible is the next best guess, as the legendary armor is the ONLY endgame reward this game has to offer. Just, committing average 15h a week for half a year to get it, is a bit much.
You might call WvW endgame, but in reality it's as much endgame, as open world content - people run around in toughness gear, tag everything, get some loot bags, and that's it. The difference is, in open world you get rewards based on type of event - in WvW you get same rewards, whether you captured 10 castles and 20 keeps, or tagged 1 person and went afk for 8 minutes. If people enjoy it, cool, but to me it's a mindless grind, similar to Halloween Labyrinth, just with a useless time gated reward mechanic. You can't "just play" to get legendary armor in WvW, because even if you play ~1h a day, you won't get tickets for anything, except maybe ascended.

 

I did read your post and in whole it conveyed a message of I don't want to put time in this game mode. Hence the reason I broke it into points to show why I was seeing issues to discuss in all its varied bits. Your second post conveys a better picture. Not fully apposed to front loading tickets and making the system be diminishing returns but it was created that way so that it would be more rewarding the more you invested into the game mode. That was to allow people that wanted to spend some time a path thru but rewarded those that would spend more time in it. To me that's a fair ball. Years ago this was the discuss between WvWers and raiders who said no to WvW leggo armor to it and a balance between having to be organized to get their gear versus spending more time to do so. To the point of giving people ways to earn more tickets if there is a goal orientated (future discussion coming up after Alliances) way to do so that's less of a'game the system method' I am for it. Years ago and since thru a number of the forum iterations I also posted options for non-WvW players other paths to get the gear just like a number of us did for WvW with options for us to get it. That's why there are options to get the armor needed in Fractals as well. Have also posted options in the past for ways to get the gear thru world bosses and other events, but again there would need to be a balance, just like WvW posters had to do, between challenge versus time. So not opposed but this might be the wrong part of the forum and if people don't want to play WvW, then posts ideas on acquiring PvE armor in the general discussion and pros and cons to get the materials and armor from other sources, that's what WvW had to do in the past. And considering I know some people that might only play one night a week that are getting there, you can just play to get there. It just takes longer. So yeah if you are looking to spend just an hour a day to get the best gear in game after we got the armory system, you can get there but its going to take a while which is the point and the balance between the game modes.

 

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

Ultimately the issue is people coming into a game mode they don't care about, but they do want the rewards. That is fine, but if you want to make changes, then you need to consider the changes in the context of the people that actually play it.

I mean, why should we care about you if you're just going to leave the moment you get what you want?

There are too many people that come in and tell us it's the worst game mode ever and how Anet should roll the red carpet for PvErs regardless of where you go. But you have to understand-- it's not our fault that you've decided to arbitrarily separate pve into different parts.   I  mean, yes, raiders can be a difficult bunch, but that's not really our problem either. 

 

I mean, ascended still has the best stats and pve uses like 5,6 stats at most-- if you raid.

But honestly, you're almost there. You do actually want to put the time, but the game doesn't let you because of the time gate. And  WvW has many bad rewards. If you attempt to build your armor set through shards, it takes more than a year for the full set.

The rewards system in WvW is very outdated though, and quite out of whack with the rest of the game. So actually, it is perfectly natural for someone outside to see its sad state more clearly. That should also not be ignored because the first impression it gives is pretty bad.

  

5 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

but this might be the wrong part of the forum and if people don't want to play WvW, then posts ideas on acquiring PvE armor in the general discussion

In all fairness, this did start in general but was moved.

But I mean, even if they made Open World armor, it would be tied to harder stuff. Like doing stuff like  the Su-Won meta. xD And then the same complains would still happen, because it's not about the game mode really. (There were already a ocean's worth of tears over that)

Edited September 5, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Endilbiach.4132]

15 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

 

The Gift of Exploration is a pretty big ask in my opinion.  Even as someone who prefers open world PvE, world completion for the sake of legendary is tiring.  I think either selling it for some amount of skirmish tickets, or introducing a WvW legendary set (probably a flashier version of the Mistforged Hero set).

I'll admit that I can probably get 2 Gifts of Battle faster than I can complete map exploration on a character, which is equal up since you get 2 GoE's for finishing it on a character.  That's actually a hard call for me since I can do map exploration REALLY quickly, but then that's me, I can do it really quickly, not just anyone can.  So, fair point, however in terms of engaging in content you're not necessarily interested in to complete crafting an item I still say it's fairly 1 to 1 conceptually.

[Asahi.1487]

I don't mind the weeks of wvw. It's the stupid pve requirements such as 500 crafting and salvaging items is dumb

[Endilbiach.4132]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Ultimately the issue is people coming into a game mode they don't care about, but they do want the rewards. That is fine, but if you want to make changes, then you need to consider the changes in the context of the people that actually play it.

I mean, why should we care about you if you're just going to leave the moment you get what you want?

There are too many people that come in and tell us it's the worst game mode ever and how Anet should roll the red carpet for PvErs regardless of where you go. But you have to understand-- it's not our fault that you've decided to arbitrarily separate pve into different parts.   I  mean, yes, raiders can be a difficult bunch, but that's not really our problem either. 

Two things: one, I would argue that it's far from arbitrary, there is a clearly defined line between all other content and raids.  Even strikes and fractals don't really count as sufficient stair steps to raids in terms of difficulty and what you need to be able to do to successfully run through raids.  Two, I think both raids and pvp would have the same initial complaint about people coming into the game mode they don't care about, wanting the rewards.

Now, if it's just skins that is 100% their problem, but it's not in this case.  Legendary gear has such a massive utility benefit that it's impossible to write off as simply QOL or cosmetic content.  So at present the only recourse open worlders, strikers, and fractal players have when it comes to getting legendary armor is to do content they're not necessarily interested in.  I started this thread thinking that making wvw legendary armor more approachable would be a good carrot to get people to come in and try a game mode that I actually really like, but the more I've seen people argue here the more I realize that no, realistically we just need a 4th path to legendary armor that doesn't include any pvp, wvw, or 10 man instanced content.

[ArchonWing.9480]

18 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Now, if it's just skins that is 100% their problem, but it's not in this case.  Legendary gear has such a massive utility benefit that it's impossible to write off as simply QOL or cosmetic content.  So at present the only recourse open worlders, strikers, and fractal players have when it comes to getting legendary armor is to do content they're not necessarily interested in. 

I think that's pretty easy. You don't need stat change for Open World lol. Debatable for fractals,. but doubful.

For Strikes, that is a much stronger point, and if they really do want to pass them off as the new raids, then yes, it should be a path there.

But Open World, no.

[Labjax.2465]

1 minute ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I think that's pretty easy. You don't need stat change for Open World lol. Debatable for fractals,. but doubful.

For Strikes, that is a much stronger point, and if they really do want to pass them off as the new raids, then yes, it should be a path there.

But Open World, no.

Then remove stat change from legendary gear because you don't need stat change for anywhere. 😉