A look at Berserker Stance and a Recommendation

[oscuro.9720]

Hello everyone! Today, we will be taking a look at berserker stance. This is predominantly through the lens of WvW. 
 

Straight to the point (TLDR, suggested changes at bottom): Berserker Stance needs improved functionality with the same cool down to make it a useful utility option that can fill an anti-condition niche the way it used to and in a way warrior no longer has.

 

Explanation; 

Comparison of Berserker Stance and Balanced Stance

Berserker Stance: 40s Cooldown (interestingly the wiki says 30s, the notes says it was increased from 30 to 40, and the game is saying 40s, so we will use the game cooldown), 7 adrenaline per second, 1s resistance per second, duration: 4s

 

Balanced Stance: 40s cooldown, immunity to critical hit, 2 stability per second, swiftness every second, 4s duration

 

Berserker Stance was actually my preferred utility of choice prior to the 2020 patch. Even with all the needs over the years, it was a great tool for countering condition heavy specs, working well against both power specs using condition for mitigation (see, thief), or high-cover condition specs (see, ranger). Unfortunately, since the resistance change, this stance is simply bad, as it never received any sort of improved functionality following the resistance/resolution split.

 

Balanced stance is just superior for the same cool down. It isn’t overly strong at the moment, and probably shouldn’t be touched. It has 2 boons per tick, functions as a stun break, and grants crit immunity. Not only is the impact of its effect greater, but the number of effects are greater as well. 

Argument: 

Berserker Stance needs improved functionality with the same cool down to make it a functional utility option. 

 

Why?:

Warrior currently has strong clear. However, most of this is tied into utilities that have stacked functionality and large cool downs (see; shake it off), and none of it resides in the stance utility tree. Berserker Stance used to fill the niche of preventing condition’s impact for a period of time so that the warrior can have a window of opportunity to strike against high-condition output classes. It no longer fills this niche, and thus the niche is no longer filled on warrior.
This is mostly because resistance was needed, directly merging this utility, without any recompense to bring it back to viability. Now is a great time to make that change!

Berserker Stance is an opportunity to re-establish it’s former functionality with a small series of changes that bring its effectiveness in line with other stances and fill a niche on warrior that warrior is lacking (condition mitigation over time).
 

Conclusion;

Berserker Stance needs improved functionality with the same cool down to make it a utility worth the cost of use and to successfully fill it’s niche.

 

Suggested Changes: 

Berserker stance should cleanse 1 condition per pulse, as well as provide 2s resolution per pulse. 
 

Total functionality would look like this; 

4s duration

1s resistance per second

2s resolution per second

1 condition cleansed per second.

40s CD

Edited September 3, 2022 by oscuro.9720

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Could it be possible to just give it a special effect that makes you immune to condition damage and grant resistance? Make it only a 3s CD, but pulse 2s of resistance on each second and grant 10 adrenaline each second?

[Shinja.3451]

I don't like to comment on these forums because of the language and the translation, but the berserker position was long-lasting for the reason that the conditions were also long-lasting, not like now that they exploit you XD

Postures are strong effects with a high cd and mostly unbreakable effects, posture should be as it was and that's it, and more so now that everything applies conditions to you, even power builds or even support, that is, they even make you invulnerable to the conditions for 10s, changing it would not be a problem, but anet does not track anything they do, it only sees the banners.

[oscuro.9720]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Could it be possible to just give it a special effect that makes you immune to condition damage and grant resistance? Make it only a 3s CD, but pulse 2s of resistance on each second and grant 10 adrenaline each second?

I see no reason you couldn’t do that, but the stance was already changed away from having a unique-effect (back when it prevented new-condition-application) in favor of a boon, as has been the case with many skills, and is abets stated design direction. In keeping with that, I avoided using unique-effects. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

7 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

I see no reason you couldn’t do that, but the stance was already changed away from having a unique-effect (back when it prevented new-condition-application) in favor of a boon, as has been the case with many skills, and is abets stated design direction. In keeping with that, I avoided using unique-effects. 

A shame rly. 

I have alwys been in favor of stances being unique. 

Since Endure Pain, Balanced Stance and Defiant Stance all have unique non-boon effects. 

Would love to see Berserker stance deny condition damage and Frenzy to make you immune to inhibiting conditions (and re-application like Doly Stance). 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

I see no reason you couldn’t do that, but the stance was already changed away from having a unique-effect (back when it prevented new-condition-application) in favor of a boon, as has been the case with many skills, and is abets stated design direction. In keeping with that, I avoided using unique-effects. 

If that is the case then Endure Pain needs to be a barrier pulsing stance, Balanced stance needs to pulse protection, and Defiant Stance needs to pulse healing as they all have unique effects.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

4 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

If that is the case then Endure Pain needs to be a barrier pulsing stance, Balanced stance needs to pulse protection, and Defiant Stance needs to pulse healing as they all have unique effects.

Defiant should pulse regen maybe hmm

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

12 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Hello everyone! Today, we will be taking a look at berserker stance. This is predominantly through the lens of WvW. 
 

Straight to the point (TLDR, suggested changes at bottom): Berserker Stance needs improved functionality with the same cool down to make it a useful utility option that can fill an anti-condition niche the way it used to and in a way warrior no longer has.

 

Explanation; 

Comparison of Berserker Stance and Balanced Stance

Berserker Stance: 40s Cooldown (interestingly the wiki says 30s, the notes says it was increased from 30 to 40, and the game is saying 40s, so we will use the game cooldown), 7 adrenaline per second, 1s resistance per second, duration: 4s

 

Balanced Stance: 40s cooldown, immunity to critical hit, 2 stability per second, swiftness every second, 4s duration

 

Berserker Stance was actually my preferred utility of choice prior to the 2020 patch. Even with all the needs over the years, it was a great tool for countering condition heavy specs, working well against both power specs using condition for mitigation (see, thief), or high-cover condition specs (see, ranger). Unfortunately, since the resistance change, this stance is simply bad, as it never received any sort of improved functionality following the resistance/resolution split.

 

Balanced stance is just superior for the same cool down. It isn’t overly strong at the moment, and probably shouldn’t be touched. It has 2 boons per tick, functions as a stun break, and grants crit immunity. Not only is the impact of its effect greater, but the number of effects are greater as well. 

Argument: 

Berserker Stance needs improved functionality with the same cool down to make it a functional utility option. 

 

Why?:

Warrior currently has strong clear. However, most of this is tied into utilities that have stacked functionality and large cool downs (see; shake it off), and none of it resides in the stance utility tree. Berserker Stance used to fill the niche of preventing condition’s impact for a period of time so that the warrior can have a window of opportunity to strike against high-condition output classes. It no longer fills this niche, and thus the niche is no longer filled on warrior.
This is mostly because resistance was needed, directly merging this utility, without any recompense to bring it back to viability. Now is a great time to make that change!

Berserker Stance is an opportunity to re-establish it’s former functionality with a small series of changes that bring its effectiveness in line with other stances and fill a niche on warrior that warrior is lacking (condition mitigation over time).
 

Conclusion;

Berserker Stance needs improved functionality with the same cool down to make it a utility worth the cost of use and to successfully fill it’s niche.

 

Suggested Changes: 

Berserker stance should cleanse 1 condition per pulse, as well as provide 2s resolution per pulse. 
 

Total functionality would look like this; 

4s duration

1s resistance per second

2s resolution per second

1 condition cleansed per second.

40s CD

That's a good idea, Oscuro. It seems a little over stacked to me (cleanse, resolution, resistance, AND adrenaline gain?) but I definitely agree with you that Berserker Stance needs some serious love.

 

Personally, I think access to resistance is the biggest need warrior has. We get shut down so hard by blind, weakness, chill, immob, etc, and currently have to rely on mass cleanses like mending or shake it off to deal with them. This overtaxes our stunbreaks and our heal skill.

 

My suggestion:

Keep Berserker Stance exactly as it is, but reduce CD to 20s.

 

Now you have readily available adrenaline boost on par with signet of Fury (also a 20s CD) as well as on-demand resistance.

 

Incidentally, I think this could be part of the answer to @Azure The Heartless.3261's repeated requests for Berserker to get better access to resistance. A low-CD Berserker Stance could be slotted in place of signet of Fury to both help you get the adrenaline to enter B mode and/or to cover your bursts once there. (I still do support adding resistance on primal burst use to the primal rage trait, though).

 

Alternatively, if you wanted to focus on cleansing, Berserker Stance could be:

 

Gain 5 adrenaline and cleanse 1 condition every second.

Gain an additional 7 adrenaline for each condition cleansed.

Duration: 4s

CD 30s

 

 

[oscuro.9720]

7 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

That's a good idea, Oscuro. It seems a little over stacked to me (cleanse, resolution, resistance, AND adrenaline gain?) but I definitely agree with you that Berserker Stance needs some serious love.

 

Personally, I think access to resistance is the biggest need warrior has. We get shut down so hard by blind, weakness, chill, immob, etc, and currently have to rely on mass cleanses like mending or shake it off to deal with them. This overtaxes our stunbreaks and our heal skill.

 

My suggestion:

Keep Berserker Stance exactly as it is, but reduce CD to 20s.

 

Now you have readily available adrenaline boost on par with signet of Fury (also a 20s CD) as well as on-demand resistance.

 

Incidentally, I think this could be part of the answer to @Azure The Heartless.3261's repeated requests for Berserker to get better access to resistance. A low-CD Berserker Stance could be slotted in place of signet of Fury to both help you get the adrenaline to enter B mode and/or to cover your bursts once there. (I still do support adding resistance on primal burst use to the primal rage trait, though).

 

Alternatively, if you wanted to focus on cleansing, Berserker Stance could be:

 

Gain 5 adrenaline and cleanse 1 condition every second.

Gain an additional 7 adrenaline for each condition cleansed.

Duration: 4s

CD 30s

 

 

Yes, perhaps a bit stacked. If anything is cut out the resolution. I don’t think resistance+cleanse+adrenaline is overkill for the stance. Dropping the CD is an option, I’m just not certain it would be taken quite as much as if you baked in a bit more functionality. Can’t say for certain though. 

[Vancho.8750]

1 hour ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Yes, perhaps a bit stacked. If anything is cut out the resolution. I don’t think resistance+cleanse+adrenaline is overkill for the stance. Dropping the CD is an option, I’m just not certain it would be taken quite as much as if you baked in a bit more functionality. Can’t say for certain though. 

It is not stacked enough even, since it has to compete with Banner of Tactics vs its group support with selfish defenses. The Short cd gradual condi cleanse on top of the rest would probably be enough to compete with Shake it off(this one also needs buff/nerf rework to really force it into group support skill) and Banner of Tactics for the really high value utility slots on warrior.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

14 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

 A low-CD Berserker Stance could be slotted in place of signet of Fury to both help you get the adrenaline to enter B mode and/or to cover your bursts once there. 

 

Ding ding ding ding.

 

Look at all that good design.