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Spellbreaker is kinda like untamed


Zekent.3652

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Both seen as pvp specs, but untamed is just (far) better, for pve and pvp.

And it's sad because it's weak in pvp rigth now, low sustain and doesn't even makes its role well, which is countering the boon vomit and being strong duelist.

And has been in this state for years.

-They buffed pve untamed numbers once, and now they're in a far better state, currently top 1 dps, spellbreaker not, they buffed spellbreaker numbers some times and still a really low utility/dps spec.

-Untamed pvp was good on launch (and still good nowadays), such as spellbreaker on launch, but spellbreaker have A LOT of stacked nerfs over the years, the resistance change, the many FC nerfs, etc.

-The outdated and useless things, meditations, specially the meditation heal, it's the worst heal in the game, Revenge Counter still NOT being a condi transfer skill, in 2022.

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One is a Ranger espec, the other warrior. I'm sure everyone knows where I'm going with this, but I'll spell it out a bit anyway.

The 3 mains I've had during my time in GW2 are Mesmer (Chrono), Warrior (primarily core and Spellbreaker), and Ranger (core and all especs - currently Untamed). I've been through a few buffs, and many more nerfs, on just these 3 classes than all the classes I played in the MMOs I've enjoyed previously. 

And nothing has ever felt like Warrior nerfing (and I've said this before): spiteful; with intent; with purpose. I think Bladesworn, buoyed by gimmicky trait interactions, will only be afloat so long as those buoys are in place - and that won't be forever. Not with the track record Anet has shown Warrior for so long. At some point Bladesworn will have served its purpose, and then the gutting shall begin.

As to the other 2 specs I mentioned, both are AI based (discounting Virtuoso) with both suffering from Anet's ineptitude on that front, and Mesmer suffering the additional indignity of being at least (and being generous here) partially misunderstood by its creator.

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I would suggest 2 things:

-Making Winds of Disenchantment more oppressive in PvE, just like the Spellbreaker Harpy.

-I said "i would also suggest that boonstrips/CC also reduces the cooldown of meditations only, then i said "nah, it's such a broken mechanic" until i saw the untamed, and they did it, and not just specific skills, but every single one; https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fervent_Force

 


 

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2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

SpB was strong before the long list of nerfs it took while Untamed is still young and have yet to take any crippling blow from the nerf team.

NB.: I'm not saying that SpB was ever good in PvE, though.

Pretty much this.

SpB is the main reason why I reject "it doesn't matter if it's bad in PvE, it's designed for PvP" reasoning. Because when push comes to shove, the balance team doesn't (and probably shouldn't) take this into account - the "PvP specs" are going to get balanced down to the same level in sPvP as everything else, and are just as susceptible to being overnerfed as everything else. So the argument has a tendency to lead to the specialisation being bad everywhere.

Mind you, there are areas in PvE that spellbreaker shines... just not in group content apart from a somewhat janky hand kite build. Could stand to have more, though.

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All that is required:

-WoD boon denial returns

-Break Enchantments gets an additional Boon ripped and better damage. 

-Loss Aversion can crit (debatable) 

-Guard Counter and Revenge Couter merge into a GM. Resistance on cast, Protection/Resolution on execution, triple condition TRANSFER. 

-Magebane Tether gets the 20% increased dmg mod from Revenge Counter vs foes with inhibiting conditions on them (maybe add 5% per condi, since SpB can be built for Slow/Cripple/Immob/Weakness/Chill) 

-Meditation trait on Guard Counter's spot, recharging their CD on CCs and 1 condi cleanse on use. 

-Imminent Threat becomes a longer taunt with less cast time at a greater radius and is unblockable. 

-SBS grants immunity to blind for 6 sec per charge and any foes affected by reveal are also blinded (5 sec). 

-Featherfoot gains 25 sec CD, potentially 30, depends on the Meditation trait. 

-Natural Healing becomes our Troll Unguent. 

-OH Dagger 4 becomes a 3-target skill, OH 5 strips a boon per for hit. 

-Dagger trait grants lower dagger CDs and for critical strikes to heal you, no matter the number of daggers equipped. 

Spellbreaker is fixed for the most part, all it needs is coeff changes from that point onward and Core warr buffs. 

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9 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

All that is required:

-WoD boon denial returns

-Break Enchantments gets an additional Boon ripped and better damage. 

-Loss Aversion can crit (debatable) 

-Guard Counter and Revenge Couter merge into a GM. Resistance on cast, Protection/Resolution on execution, triple condition TRANSFER. 

-Magebane Tether gets the 20% increased dmg mod from Revenge Counter vs foes with inhibiting conditions on them (maybe add 5% per condi, since SpB can be built for Slow/Cripple/Immob/Weakness/Chill) 

-Meditation trait on Guard Counter's spot, recharging their CD on CCs and 1 condi cleanse on use. 

-Imminent Threat becomes a longer taunt with less cast time at a greater radius and is unblockable. 

-SBS grants immunity to blind for 6 sec per charge and any foes affected by reveal are also blinded (5 sec). 

-Featherfoot gains 25 sec CD, potentially 30, depends on the Meditation trait. 

-Natural Healing becomes our Troll Unguent. 

-OH Dagger 4 becomes a 3-target skill, OH 5 strips a boon per for hit. 

-Dagger trait grants lower dagger CDs and for critical strikes to heal you, no matter the number of daggers equipped. 

Spellbreaker is fixed for the most part, all it needs is coeff changes from that point onward and Core warr buffs. 

On MBT, I think a better option than a better multiplier would be to push it back up to 2 stacks of might. This gives both a damage and a sustain buff simultaneously, which will better augment spell’s primary role as a duelist. Unless you are talking about pve, then ignore me 😛

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Spellbreaker will forever be useless for pve as long as they force it to be dps spec, when its main mechanic is purely selfish defensive skill, there is no reason to pick it over berserker or blades worn since it is just core warrior with protector's strike. Even if FC is made into self activatable skill the gameplay will be extremely similar to the short cd bursts on berserker. It could have been salvaged as quickness support like scrapper, now all specs can give quickness and there is no reason to pick SpB over the others.  Personaly I think SpB should fufill other niche that the other warrior specs can't in pve.

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7 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Spellbreaker will forever be useless for pve as long as they force it to be dps spec, when its main mechanic is purely selfish defensive skill, there is no reason to pick it over berserker or blades worn since it is just core warrior with protector's strike. Even if FC is made into self activatable skill the gameplay will be extremely similar to the short cd bursts on berserker. It could have been salvaged as quickness support like scrapper, now all specs can give quickness and there is no reason to pick SpB over the others.  Personaly I think SpB should fufill other niche that the other warrior specs can't in pve.

Yeah, one thing I'd kinda like to see is a "Spellbreakers can convert the magic of enemies into alacrity for their allies" effect. That's probably not going to happen as long as warriors have quickness on core, though. Like revenant having alacrity on Ventari, though, I can see that being a stopgap measure until they develop a quickness support specialisation.

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I'm thinking something along the lines of "grant alacrity to allies when you inflict slow or remove a boon. Effects that remove boons inflict slow when striking a boonless foe".

Maybe attach it to Enchantment Collapse and call it something like Harvest Magic. That'd give spellbreaker a lot of potential ways to trigger it and therefore generate alacrity, so the base duration can probably be relatively short, although apart from Break Enchantments it wouldn't do much to make meditations more useful. But it could serve to make for an interesting utility/boonstrip/CC build.

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40 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I'm thinking something along the lines of "grant alacrity to allies when you inflict slow or remove a boon. Effects that remove boons inflict slow when striking a boonless foe".

Maybe attach it to Enchantment Collapse and call it something like Harvest Magic. That'd give spellbreaker a lot of potential ways to trigger it and therefore generate alacrity, so the base duration can probably be relatively short, although apart from Break Enchantments it wouldn't do much to make meditations more useful. But it could serve to make for an interesting utility/boonstrip/CC build.

Don't get me wrong, i like the idea, but the problem with spellbreaker, is that depends too much in the enemy boons to get some value, making them good just for a very few bosses. And if you treat those enemy boonstrips gains as a plus, it's gonna be OP against enemies with boons, that's why Loss Aversion has been so hard nerfed on PvP, and its dps is so low against enemies without boons without, that trait. Of course spellbreaker SHOULD punish the boons, but if you make the spec too based around it, it's probably gonna fail in most of scenarios, except for pvp, that's why people says that "it's a pvp only spec".

Edited by Zizekent.2398
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On 9/3/2022 at 11:10 AM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

All that is required:

-WoD boon denial returns

-Break Enchantments gets an additional Boon ripped and better damage. 

-Loss Aversion can crit (debatable) 

-Guard Counter and Revenge Couter merge into a GM. Resistance on cast, Protection/Resolution on execution, triple condition TRANSFER. 

-Magebane Tether gets the 20% increased dmg mod from Revenge Counter vs foes with inhibiting conditions on them (maybe add 5% per condi, since SpB can be built for Slow/Cripple/Immob/Weakness/Chill) 

-Meditation trait on Guard Counter's spot, recharging their CD on CCs and 1 condi cleanse on use. 

-Imminent Threat becomes a longer taunt with less cast time at a greater radius and is unblockable. 

-SBS grants immunity to blind for 6 sec per charge and any foes affected by reveal are also blinded (5 sec). 

-Featherfoot gains 25 sec CD, potentially 30, depends on the Meditation trait. 

-Natural Healing becomes our Troll Unguent. 

-OH Dagger 4 becomes a 3-target skill, OH 5 strips a boon per for hit. 

-Dagger trait grants lower dagger CDs and for critical strikes to heal you, no matter the number of daggers equipped. 

Spellbreaker is fixed for the most part, all it needs is coeff changes from that point onward and Core warr buffs. 

Interesting i just made a buff Loss aversion thread, i don tthink it needs to crit, but could be the way for warrior to recover damage on CC skills, that could be actually a mechanic for  spellbreaker, if at least SPB could deal damage ripping boons on CC's.

 

26 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Don't get me wrong, i like the idea, but the problem with spellbreaker, is that depends too much in the enemy boons to get some value, making them good just for a very few bosses. And if you treat those enemy boonstrips gains as a plus, it's gonna be OP against enemies with boons, that's why Loss Aversion has been so hard nerfed on PvP, and its dps is so low against enemies without boons without, that trait. Of course spellbreaker SHOULD punish the boons, but if you make the spec too based around it, it's probably gonna fail in most of scenarios, except for pvp, that's why people says that "it's a pvp only spec".

 

Thats what a necro is and besides boon riping also converts them to condis wich means more damage.

 

Edited by Aeolus.3615
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1 hour ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Don't get me wrong, i like the idea, but the problem with spellbreaker, is that depends too much in the enemy boons to get some value, making them good just for a very few bosses. And if you treat those enemy boonstrips gains as a plus, it's gonna be OP against enemies with boons, that's why Loss Aversion has been so hard nerfed on PvP, and its dps is so low against enemies without boons without, that trait. Of course spellbreaker SHOULD punish the boons, but if you make the spec too based around it, it's probably gonna fail in most of scenarios, except for pvp, that's why people says that "it's a pvp only spec".

That's why I added the "effects that remove boons inflict slow when striking a boonless foe" part. It means that if a boss doesn't have boons to remove, you still get the alacrity proc. It would naturally be more effective when boons are in play, but 1) I don't think it's a bad thing for some builds to be better against some bosses than others and 2) there are already builds that have boonstrip naturally present in their DPS builds. So I don't think having an alacbreaker which also offers boonstrip is likely to be the next mechanist, just an alternative to mesmers and necromancers for encounters where boonstrip is important. 

In competitive, they can reduce the durations to a point where they're barely relevant, kinda like quickness herald.

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