Supports In WvW?

[SleepyBat.9034]

I don't think it's good game design if a support can outheal a dps class in a 1v1. It it encourages people to run around solo as a support when moving from place to place if they know they can't be killed by a single player. Personally I'm not a fan of this type of game-play.

[Strider Pj.2193]

So, what can that support accomplish then?

[Svarty.8019]

We had three rangers and a scrapper. A single Catalist ran through us trying to do a burst spike. When their fingers got tired, they ran away. We couldn't kill it. 

 

Do you know what people say about WvW in this game?

They say, "This could be great".

They don't say this is great.

They don't even say this used to be great.

They say this game used to have potential.

 

[SleepyBat.9034]

19 minutes ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

So, what can that support accomplish then?

I think they can be effective without being immortal.

Edited September 3, 2022 by SleepyBat.9034

[Asahi.1487]

4v1 and still can't kill? Sounds like a skill problem

[cyberzombie.7348]

Imo, this issue stems from the lack of anti-support abilities on most classes to keep them in, check. 

[Dawdler.8521]

16 minutes ago, Asahi.1487 said:

4v1 and still can't kill? Sounds like a skill problem

Or otherwise known as a hardcounter situation. Ele in particular hardcounter slow buildups, low-medium damage builds both condi and power no matter how much they themselves kitten and complain that they are so weak. They have insane sustain and so much AoE combos. I've seen an ele go 1v5 and not take any damage for 30s while taking down a few of them in turn.

Anyway real supports solo are not effective because they hit like wet noodles. The type of immortal builds no matter the class you run into solo that hurt you, arent support.

[kash.9213]

18 minutes ago, cyberzombie.7348 said:

Imo, this issue stems from the lack of anti-support abilities on most classes to keep them in, check. 

Character animations and audio help give a crisp sense you can tune into and you can hear and feel that crunch when Control skills and modifiers are eating away at layers. When your side is alert and scoping that out more you might see the other side scramble from the loss of slots in their composition. If you can influence body language on both sides with movement and Control while intercepting or mitigating theirs, you can drive movement and actions around some if people are tuned in. 

There's a lot of good players who make me look dumb sometimes though. Can't let a fight or two cause too much trauma OP. Play for fun and treat everything like it's a breakbar boss.

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 hour ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

I think they can be effective without being immortal.

Which means they can’t take anything nor kill anything.  

[SleepyBat.9034]

9 minutes ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Which means they can’t take anything nor kill anything.  

Guess what, supports aren't supposed to do that, that's what other builds are for.

[pukish.5784]

healing power and toughness can be halved

[Ashen.2907]

15 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Guess what, supports aren't supposed to do that, that's what other builds are for.

Ok, and this thread is built on commentary about facing a support character 1 v 1. If th3 support is alone he is not supporting anyone. He also cannot accomplish much. He is taking up space without contributing to his side....unless he is baiting you into trying to kill him. Then he breaks even. One person on his server accomplishing nothing and one person on your server doing the same.

[Strider Pj.2193]

48 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Guess what, supports aren't supposed to do that, that's what other builds are for.

🤷

 

There isn’t a problem.  And I play DPS.  
 

If you can’t kill them, bring more.  Or don’t.  
 

Call me when they can consistently kill tower lords.  Never mind keep lords.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Someone’s just mad they caught a support player returning to their Zerg and couldn’t kill them.  
 

Sure, the boon ball needs tweaks (ok maybe a hammer).  But not because a DPS player can’t kill a support player caught alone.  

[ArchonWing.9480]

8 hours ago, Asahi.1487 said:

4v1 and still can't kill? Sounds like a skill problem

Not just 4v1 but vs a 1 that doesn't have damage to kill them lmao.

I mean yea it's annoying but coordinated Chain CCs make it easy. And honestly even if they get away, who cares? They aren't supporting anyone when you keep them in combat and away from their group.

A lot of these bunkers just move around selfishly while their teammates die. They already failed as supports.

  

6 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

🤷

 

There isn’t a problem.  And I play DPS.  
 

If you can’t kill them, bring more.  Or don’t.  
 

Call me when they can consistently kill tower lords.  Never mind keep lords.

Or just build ballistas. Or bring 4 mesmers with Moa.

Edited September 3, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

We need a counter thread about glass dps builds not being glassy enough to be killed by tanky builds.

 

On a serious note I have a feeling the catalyst was using magnetic aura wisely and the rangers were all, you know.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 9/3/2022 at 3:18 PM, cyberzombie.7348 said:

Imo, this issue stems from the lack of anti-support abilities on most classes to keep them in, check. 

The warrior problem, Spellbreakers could have that role, but they are just health sponges diving and dying.

Seams anet has been only buffing the  classes towards pve speed raids by adding more boons to skills that had no boons and that's how they want wvw to be builded to, perma boons and poor counters to the meta at the point they wont be efefctive.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[SleepyBat.9034]

10 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

The warrior problem, Spellbreakers could have that role, but they are just health sponges diving and dying.

Seams anet has been only buffing the  classes towards pve speed raids by adding more boons to skills that had no boons and that's how they want wvw to be builded to, perma boons and poor counters to the meta at the point they wont be efefctive.

Yeah when they changed the Profession mechanics on all these classes to pulsing boons, and all the new elite specs that have ways of pulsing boons. I'd love if Reaper became like a Boonripping powerhouse class.

[Cuks.8241]

Oh this is very old discussion pre dating gw2. Typically a lone damage dealer should not be able to kill a healer support otherwise they become obsolete. Unless the dd outplays support which usually means catching him in a long CC chain and/or interrupts a crucial skill cast or if the fight goes really long and someone runs out of resources (the last not relevant for gw2). This is more often true for game modes that focus on small scale fights with one support healer.

[Yuyo.5697]

Get Good.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 9/3/2022 at 3:45 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Or otherwise known as a hardcounter situation. Ele in particular hardcounter slow buildups, low-medium damage builds both condi and power no matter how much they themselves kitten and complain that they are so weak. They have insane sustain and so much AoE combos. I've seen an ele go 1v5 and not take any damage for 30s while taking down a few of them in turn.

Anyway real supports solo are not effective because they hit like wet noodles. The type of immortal builds no matter the class you run into solo that hurt you, arent support.

Or very squishy Herald ventari dont need to run minstrells at all... going minstrells is more towards low skill anyway .

When ic a ele that tanky i tend to have time to swap to my spellbreaker.

Ill keep telling minstrells are a issue  need to loose the toughness 😛 for somethign else.

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Thomas.2564]

So, u dont think its a good idea that support classes cant out heal dps classes? And what are u basing this idea on? Let me guess, u ran into a random support player while roaming, couldnt kill him, got pissed and quickly went to the forums to complain about this one silly incident. 

 

So lets say that anet were actually dumb enough to listen to this dribble. What about outside roaming then? Havok and zergs fights? What are they Supose to do now, that the dps is so high that the healing cant keep up? Should they all go dps, and play first bomb first win?  There is kind of a reason for the fact that healers can out heal ur dps! 

Who cares about healers roaming, if they think its fun being unkillable, but not being able to kill anything either, i say let them. I cant do anything but laugh at these plebs. 

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, Thomas.2564 said:

So, u dont think its a good idea that support classes cant out heal dps classes? And what are u basing this idea on? Let me guess, u ran into a random support player while roaming, couldnt kill him, got pissed and quickly went to the forums to complain about this one silly incident. 

 

So lets say that anet were actually dumb enough to listen to this dribble. What about outside roaming then? Havok and zergs fights? What are they Supose to do now, that the dps is so high that the healing cant keep up? Should they all go dps, and play first bomb first win?  There is kind of a reason for the fact that healers can out heal ur dps! 

Who cares about healers roaming, if they think its fun being unkillable, but not being able to kill anything either, i say let them. I cant do anything but laugh at these plebs. 

Theres counterplay to that as well, play mesmer, necro and warrior to some extent, these classes have mechanics to counter it, and it can work well to some extent.

The possible issue m8 be how sturdy some supporters can become very sturdy due minstrell be a perfect defensive stat and Anet has been kinda avoiding meta-counter to perma boon balls gameplay, Anet kinda helping carry the boon ballers at the momment.

On solo...or havock i would say just corrupt or dispel the tank wanabe all those sturdy tanky players need their boons 😛 .

Edited September 8, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Dawdler.8521]

56 minutes ago, Thomas.2564 said:

So lets say that anet were actually dumb enough to listen to this dribble. What about outside roaming then? Havok and zergs fights? What are they Supose to do now, that the dps is so high that the healing cant keep up? Should they all go dps, and play first bomb first win?  There is kind of a reason for the fact that healers can out heal ur dps! 

Yeah because there is absolutely no one complaining about the strenght of supports in havoc or zergs and saying boonballs need to be nerfed.

Wait.

[SleepyBat.9034]

5 hours ago, Thomas.2564 said:

So, u dont think its a good idea that support classes cant out heal dps classes? And what are u basing this idea on? Let me guess, u ran into a random support player while roaming, couldnt kill him, got pissed and quickly went to the forums to complain about this one silly incident. 

 

So lets say that anet were actually dumb enough to listen to this dribble. What about outside roaming then? Havok and zergs fights? What are they Supose to do now, that the dps is so high that the healing cant keep up? Should they all go dps, and play first bomb first win?  There is kind of a reason for the fact that healers can out heal ur dps! 

Who cares about healers roaming, if they think its fun being unkillable, but not being able to kill anything either, i say let them. I cant do anything but laugh at these plebs. 

Actually I run into them daily, I have lost countless 1v2s because they had a support, I want to be able to win a 1v2 or more if I play really well but that is impossible with supports being so tanky. People say this game is highly reliant on player skill, if that's the case why do we need healing stats with tank stats? It's not the healing I care about, it's that supports have high toughness and vitality which makes it impossible to deal enough damage before they heal back up. It's fine if supports can heal, that's not the issue here but they should not be so tanky while doing so.