Wintrading at an all time high

[greedywholesome.9081]

On 9/15/2022 at 3:53 PM, ResJudicator.7916 said:

Or you . . .

1) Queue up first b/c queues take forever to pop at higher ratings. 

2) Once queue pops, check your contacts.  Are a bunch of people you want to avoid currently OUTSIDE of an active PvP game?  If yes, decline queue b/c chances are their queue just popped as well, so your odds of getting matched with them is higher.  If they're currently in a game, then accept the queue.

From the video you posted from your stream, it seems like you have an (unfortunately) unique experience where people specifically throw when they get matched with you, due to some personal animus that they have against you.  I think that's awful behavior and totally inexcusable, and that those people should be punished for it.  But I also think that your experience is probably not representative. 

The evidence you've linked actually suggests that people are duo-ing with smurfs on alt accounts.  That's why you wind up with a bunch of alt accounts also in the top 50.  It's also what the first video you referenced actually showed.   

And it's so easy to do.  A guy with 1600 rating duo-queues with his 1800-rated friend, but the 1800-rated friend uses a 1100-rated alt account.  Their average rating is now 1350, so they get to crush a bunch of mid-gold, then high-gold, then low-plat games.  Those games are going to be so one-sided because these gold (and some silver) players are actually up against some of the top players in GW2, and once you decisively win a fight you can snowball the rest of the map.

At the end of the session, the 1600-rated guy winds up at 1800 from all those wins, while the 1100-rated alt winds up at like 1600.  If they really want to try-hard about it, the smurf could always create a second smurf account to reset the rating yet again.  And if someone ever wants to de-rank their smurf account, all they have to do is chain-afk a bunch of matches (and maybe it's those people who are stream-sniping you while they derank to troll you). 

By contrast, just think about how much effort it takes to win-trade consistently at platinum and above.  Every time the "thrower" account actually throws a game, he's losing like 15 points, while his "partner" gains 15 points, for a 30-point differential.  Then the thrower account has to grind games just to get back to the same rating as his partner so the matchmaker syncs them up against each other.

 

Thanks for sharing, it was a darn good read and you methodically explained how the DuoQ set-up is being "gamed". I'm sure once that goes away, the mode will become more merit based and more people will participate. The top 20 will still remain on top for the most part due their high level skill play. Plus the mode will be more inclusive. I've went against players that only Q unranked play mechanically better than those I've fought in Plat 2 during ATs. 

 

Not bashing Plat 2 - To be transparent, when the population was a lot higher, I have ended seasons in Plat 1 but have never crossed the Plat 2 line. Those guys play at a much much higher level. Every movement, interruption, cleave, kill, playing for all 3 nodes...just really fast thinking and reaction. Just saying that if we have no duoQ, we'll see more players climb on top and will reduce Qtimes

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

I just wanted to bump this thread in reminder that this thread: Team USA has blatantly WINTRADED the Monthly AT was again and unsurprisingly, removed from forum discussion and swept under the rug.

I just wanted there to be some note that this did happen, again.

There is undoubtably deep corruption here.

-----------

~ edit

Ok so 30 minutes after someone created this thread So Anet just covering up MAT cheating? Arenanet also removed that thread lol.

I mean woooooooooow dude. Never seen anything like this so boldly public.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I just wanted to bump this thread in reminder that this thread: Team USA has blatantly WINTRADED the Monthly AT was again and unsurprisingly, removed from forum discussion and swept under the rug.

I just wanted there to be some note that this did happen, again.

There is undoubtably deep corruption here.

-----------

~ edit

Ok so 30 minutes after someone created this thread So Anet just covering up MAT cheating? Arenanet also removed that thread lol.

I mean woooooooooow dude. Never seen anything like this so boldly public.

Removed, of course.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-conduct-breaches-outcomes/

"Engaging in PvP match manipulation, disrupting a PvP match by not actively playing in good faith, or any other form of PvP griefing, exploitation, or abuse."

 

What a joke. You would think after the what... 40-50 uncontested purple cups of agreement that post had, that maybe someone at Arenanet would sit down and be like: "Okay, what's left of our PvP community appears to be really sick of this, what should we do?"

Extensive match manipulation for years? - Arenanet sleeps 😴🛏️

Some slimeball wintrader gets called out by name just once? - Arenanet:

Can that same level of energy be directed at the wintrading cartel instead?  If that were possible we wouldn't even have to mention them by name. 🤔

 

[pukish.5784]

I stopped paying because of this. I didn't buy End of Dragons expansion because of this lol. Also don't subscribe any streamers of guildwars2. 

[Tinkerer.2167]

On 9/3/2022 at 5:10 PM, Bast.7253 said:

Thank you for sticking to the subject. 

That is crazy! I can't believe people would pay real life money for a pvp title. I can understand buying raid/fractal clears because they come with exclusive cosmetics but how can you buy a title and feel anything for it if you didn't earn it? What do you do with it? Tell people how you're x number on the leaderboard?

It makes sense though. I've seen a few people here and there with plat badges and am like.. uh.. I know I'm not great at this game but didn't this person used to consistently rank below me? Maybe they just hadn't found their playstyle yet. 

"because they come with exclusive cosmetics "

A monthly gizmo is an exclusive cosmetic and a title that is by far more rare than any Fractal, Raid clear you could ever pay for, and that value will vary heavily based on which gizmo it is, for example a golden crown is extremely valuable. It's something you'll never get access to in PvE, and is only achievable by winning a monthly tournament.

I understand the topic is more about wintrading, so obviously the title in question is going to be rank1 God of PvP or even the 2nd tier title from then. That alone is even more rare and valuable technically than fractal, raid clears where raid/fractals are more common, and easy to carry through. There is only 1 way to get r1 title, and that method is extremely hard, even if you pay for it. The amount of coordination needed to do it properly is ridiculous and may even be down to luck in a lot of cases.

It is in the <0.1% of the population that have one. I'm not sure what your distinction here is, but people will pay a lot of money for them for that reason alone.

On Epic accounts with them sell for a minimum $2,000+, and those are just flat alts with Gizmos and nothing else.

There's a lot of money not only in mAT's, because top players will flood alts with Gizmos and then sell them, but also because they charge for coaching, Top leaderboard carries and of course, monthly tourney wins.

I think though, it's difficult to actually coordinate carrying someone's legit account in an mAT win, because it's heavily monitored, so what they tend to do is just get gizmos for their own alts then sell them and make money that way. It's easier, and it's safer for them.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Tinkerer.2167

[voltaicbore.8012]

I'm impressed that so many of you still care about ranked. I play a lot less of GW2 in general, but my ranked time has dropped to 0. I just see no point in struggling to keep my peasant p1 status when I don't even need the legendaries anymore. Even without the scourge of wintrading, the matchmaking system and imblaanced point losses alone were frustrating enough. The brazenness of wintrading these days just nailed down the lid on the coffin for me.

All this talk about smash had me thinking about OG, N64 Smash and Goldeneye. Much shouting, much fun, simpler times.

[JTGuevara.9018]

1 hour ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I'm impressed that so many of you still care about ranked. I play a lot less of GW2 in general, but my ranked time has dropped to 0. I just see no point in struggling to keep my peasant p1 status when I don't even need the legendaries anymore. Even without the scourge of wintrading, the matchmaking system and imblaanced point losses alone were frustrating enough. The brazenness of wintrading these days just nailed down the lid on the coffin for me.

All this talk about smash had me thinking about OG, N64 Smash and Goldeneye. Much shouting, much fun, simpler times.

Pfft...we don't care. As a matter of fact, some of us like myself want to see ranked burnt to the ground! You're talking to the people who already quit. (myself included) Also, it's just NOT a good look for an mmo with functional pve to have a disastrous and floundering pvp. That's a laughable neglect of a product and as paying customers we should say something.

[voltaicbore.8012]

6 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Pfft...we don't care. As a matter of fact, some of us like myself want to see ranked burnt to the ground! You're talking to the people who already quit. (myself included) Also, it's just NOT a good look for an mmo with functional pve to have a disastrous and floundering pvp. That's a laughable neglect of a product and as paying customers we should say something.

Ah that makes more sense. I, too, actually want to see ranked burned to the ground in its current form. In particular I support @Trevor Boyer.6524's proposal to get rid of ranked queue, move current ranked rewards (from pips) into unranked, and have prestige be determined by MATs or a new, properly regulated system. I don't think ranked is salvageable in its current state.

As for the shameful/laughable neglect, also agree. It's a mark against the game to have such a dysfunctional pvp scene. I remember some folks really high on copium were hoping that Steam would bring hordes of new blood into spvp, but I take it that hasn't happened.

[JTGuevara.9018]

3 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

Ah that makes more sense. I, too, actually want to see ranked burned to the ground in its current form. In particular I support @Trevor Boyer.6524's proposal to get rid of ranked queue, move current ranked rewards (from pips) into unranked, and have prestige be determined by MATs or a new, properly regulated system. I don't think ranked is salvageable in its current state.

As for the shameful/laughable neglect, also agree. It's a mark against the game to have such a dysfunctional pvp scene. I remember some folks really high on copium were hoping that Steam would bring hordes of new blood into spvp, but I take it that hasn't happened.

Hah! All the Steam release really did was bring a temporary influx of new players who will eventually see through the smoke and mirrors. (It's a matter of time.) That, and I believe Anet desperately trying to ride the Steam platform for cash. And yes, I do mean "giddy-up".

And unfortunately, MATs are also out the window. Win-trading happens there as well. So, you're pretty much down to the properly regulated system. However...that would require actual developer effort, planning and company presence. And let me ask you: how are we doing on THAT lately lmao?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

6 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

And unfortunately, MATs are also out the window.

If you could actually find a team of people who could see through the confusion, trust each other instead of judging each other based of throw game rating, and agree to not get bribed, you could form a solid team but this is only pt 1 of the task.

After that, you have to find some way to protect yourself against these magical DCs that happen during important AT games, which aren't a coincidence it happens so often, and figure out how to deal with the casual hacks that pop on an off when they really want to avoid a death or snag a clutch rotation here and there when they're in stealth.

They are good at hiding prompt & short hack use. And this isn't to mention hacks that have been admitted to be used in years past that aren't so easy to detect. Not sure if these still exist, like hacks that allow you to see all players at all times on the mini map, even if they are stealthed. This is a massively powerful hack for high tier players, to be able to see all rotations at all times so you never have to make mistakes. Who knows what other kinds of passive non-speed non-tele hacks exist, that give players who know the game well, large advantages.

Just as one example, I won't mention any names: The other day I was in an AT final round in Eternal Coliseum. We were nearly even in points with this team we were against. I was on Untamed and I was coming off respawn and headed to my home node, where there was a Catalyst decapping my home. I could SEE everything to my left and on my mini map, and there were no opponents leaving mid to come to home with the Catalyst, no opponents coming over the ramp. Untamed is like the only thing in the game right now that can pop kill a Catalyst. I knew that if I could land the burst right, I could quickly down the Catalyst, prevent the cap, recap the node, and it would shove us a bit ahead in points at least for awhile. Keep in mind the opponent team had nothing in their comp that could stealth or even lay smoke fields. As I approach the Catalyst and get within about 600 range to perform the burst, I began casting Barrage. I began casting behind the boxes while panning my camera to watch the ramp area from mid and the archway to mid which no opponents were incoming. All of the sudden a Tempest somehow appears on the home node right next to the Catalyst and they both push me and kill me. When I died like this, it created snowball and they got ahead in points and we couldn't keep up after that. And in true copout fashion as usual, they tell me it was Lightning Flash. It was clearly not Lightning Flash. To be able to LF to that spot, the Tempest would have needed to be within 900 range of the center of the home node and have line of sight to use the ground target, which I would have been able to easily see a nearby Tempest if this were the case. It also wasn't stealth because that team had all classes that don't even have access have stealth, that don't even have access to smoke fields. It was a blatant tele-hack.

They only did it once in the match, but they did it at the right time to prevent a bad situation where I would potentially kill the Catalyst and tip points in our favor on a snowball into mid on a 5v4. This is what they do. Usually, they hide these things better but that day was one of times they were sloppy about it.

My point being is that unfortunately we can't challenge these teams unless we are willing to do the same kinds of things that they do. If people care to really harness what's left of our pvp scene in GW2, it's probably time to create a closed invite-only community and players need to wisen up and support that community, go participate in it. This way we could launch some clean legitimate events and if any blatant bull**** like that was caught by spectators or definitely if caught on record, just remove those players. At this point, I just want GGs again. I'm really tired of playing with cheaters.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 9/28/2022 at 8:27 AM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

If you could actually find a team of people who could see through the confusion, trust each other instead of judging each other based of throw game rating, and agree to not get bribed, you could form a solid team but this is only pt 1 of the task.

After that, you have to find some way to protect yourself against these magical DCs that happen during important AT games, which aren't a coincidence it happens so often, and figure out how to deal with the casual hacks that pop on an off when they really want to avoid a death or snag a clutch rotation here and there when they're in stealth.

They are good at hiding prompt & short hack use. And this isn't to mention hacks that have been admitted to be used in years past that aren't so easy to detect. Not sure if these still exist, like hacks that allow you to see all players at all times on the mini map, even if they are stealthed. This is a massively powerful hack for high tier players, to be able to see all rotations at all times so you never have to make mistakes. Who knows what other kinds of passive non-speed non-tele hacks exist, that give players who know the game well, large advantages.

Just as one example, I won't mention any names: The other day I was in an AT final round in Eternal Coliseum. We were nearly even in points with this team we were against. I was on Untamed and I was coming off respawn and headed to my home node, where there was a Catalyst decapping my home. I could SEE everything to my left and on my mini map, and there were no opponents leaving mid to come to home with the Catalyst, no opponents coming over the ramp. Untamed is like the only thing in the game right now that can pop kill a Catalyst. I knew that if I could land the burst right, I could quickly down the Catalyst, prevent the cap, recap the node, and it would shove us a bit ahead in points at least for awhile. Keep in mind the opponent team had nothing in their comp that could stealth or even lay smoke fields. As I approach the Catalyst and get within about 600 range to perform the burst, I began casting Barrage. I began casting behind the boxes while panning my camera to watch the ramp area from mid and the archway to mid which no opponents were incoming. All of the sudden a Tempest somehow appears on the home node right next to the Catalyst and they both push me and kill me. When I died like this, it created snowball and they got ahead in points and we couldn't keep up after that. And in true copout fashion as usual, they tell me it was Lightning Flash. It was clearly not Lightning Flash. To be able to LF to that spot, the Tempest would have needed to be within 900 range of the center of the home node and have line of sight to use the ground target, which I would have been able to easily see a nearby Tempest if this were the case. It also wasn't stealth because that team had all classes that don't even have access have stealth, that don't even have access to smoke fields. It was a blatant tele-hack.

They only did it once in the match, but they did it at the right time to prevent a bad situation where I would potentially kill the Catalyst and tip points in our favor on a snowball into mid on a 5v4. This is what they do. Usually, they hide these things better but that day was one of times they were sloppy about it.

My point being is that unfortunately we can't challenge these teams unless we are willing to do the same kinds of things that they do. If people care to really harness what's left of our pvp scene in GW2, it's probably time to create a closed invite-only community and players need to wisen up and support that community, go participate in it. This way we could launch some clean legitimate events and if any blatant bull**** like that was caught by spectators or definitely if caught on record, just remove those players. At this point, I just want GGs again. I'm really tired of playing with cheaters.

 

 

Oh but of course! You can't be obvious with hacks. That's the point. THIS is why I say these clique of "top" players are full of it. They're not as good as they claim. I may kitten off fanboys with this comment but I don't mind!

When a game mode is neglected this way for so many years, without meaningful oversight, it is inevitable that hacks will proliferate.

But referring to your last paragraph. Unfortunately, for meaningful multiplayer communities to develop, you HAVE to control the technology behind it. We all depend on Anet's servers and basically hope that Anet is in the mood to maintain them. The days of games having dedicated servers are no longer with us. Almost everything in this game industry is "live service" now. Also, you know that the clique has special perks and tools at their disposal that they keep hush-hush about to game the tournaments and matchmaking system. All while Anet looks the other way, of course.

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 9/28/2022 at 2:27 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

If you could actually find a team of people who could see through the confusion, trust each other instead of judging each other based of throw game rating, and agree to not get bribed, you could form a solid team but this is only pt 1 of the task.

After that, you have to find some way to protect yourself against these magical DCs that happen during important AT games, which aren't a coincidence it happens so often, and figure out how to deal with the casual hacks that pop on an off when they really want to avoid a death or snag a clutch rotation here and there when they're in stealth.

They are good at hiding prompt & short hack use. And this isn't to mention hacks that have been admitted to be used in years past that aren't so easy to detect. Not sure if these still exist, like hacks that allow you to see all players at all times on the mini map, even if they are stealthed. This is a massively powerful hack for high tier players, to be able to see all rotations at all times so you never have to make mistakes. Who knows what other kinds of passive non-speed non-tele hacks exist, that give players who know the game well, large advantages.

Just as one example, I won't mention any names: The other day I was in an AT final round in Eternal Coliseum. We were nearly even in points with this team we were against. I was on Untamed and I was coming off respawn and headed to my home node, where there was a Catalyst decapping my home. I could SEE everything to my left and on my mini map, and there were no opponents leaving mid to come to home with the Catalyst, no opponents coming over the ramp. Untamed is like the only thing in the game right now that can pop kill a Catalyst. I knew that if I could land the burst right, I could quickly down the Catalyst, prevent the cap, recap the node, and it would shove us a bit ahead in points at least for awhile. Keep in mind the opponent team had nothing in their comp that could stealth or even lay smoke fields. As I approach the Catalyst and get within about 600 range to perform the burst, I began casting Barrage. I began casting behind the boxes while panning my camera to watch the ramp area from mid and the archway to mid which no opponents were incoming. All of the sudden a Tempest somehow appears on the home node right next to the Catalyst and they both push me and kill me. When I died like this, it created snowball and they got ahead in points and we couldn't keep up after that. And in true copout fashion as usual, they tell me it was Lightning Flash. It was clearly not Lightning Flash. To be able to LF to that spot, the Tempest would have needed to be within 900 range of the center of the home node and have line of sight to use the ground target, which I would have been able to easily see a nearby Tempest if this were the case. It also wasn't stealth because that team had all classes that don't even have access have stealth, that don't even have access to smoke fields. It was a blatant tele-hack.

They only did it once in the match, but they did it at the right time to prevent a bad situation where I would potentially kill the Catalyst and tip points in our favor on a snowball into mid on a 5v4. This is what they do. Usually, they hide these things better but that day was one of times they were sloppy about it.

My point being is that unfortunately we can't challenge these teams unless we are willing to do the same kinds of things that they do. If people care to really harness what's left of our pvp scene in GW2, it's probably time to create a closed invite-only community and players need to wisen up and support that community, go participate in it. This way we could launch some clean legitimate events and if any blatant bull**** like that was caught by spectators or definitely if caught on record, just remove those players. At this point, I just want GGs again. I'm really tired of playing with cheaters.

 

 

I mentioned it before somewhere that I made AT game with random WvW players. ( 4 fun game )
We ran against the you know what type of 5man team, 3 on mains, 2 on alts. we were gonna lose 500-200, but that would be too weak for them, guardian started teleport hacking. At first I thought they just wanted to smash our random no winning chance even harder but just now I realised. They didnt cheat to win harder, that was practice. These guys legit practice cheating to be more effective at it lol

[Burnfall.9573]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbMLjFC9pvk

"Wintrading has been a problem at the top level for the last few years thanks to Anet refusing to ban even the most obvious cheaters and just letting it run rampant... it really needs a fix so hopefully this video will spread awareness about match manipulation...."

Edited August 17, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Kozumi.5816]

No one has ever win traded in GW2.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

5 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbMLjFC9pvk

"Wintrading has been a problem at the top level for the last few years thanks to Anet refusing to ban even the most obvious cheaters and just letting it run rampant... it really needs a fix so hopefully this video will spread awareness about match manipulation...."

Should see my recent stream.

It's like 4 hours of analysis vs. the curiously ridiculously strange matches I was getting in a row.

[Burnfall.9573]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Should see my recent stream.

It's like 4 hours of analysis vs. the curiously ridiculously strange matches I was getting in a row.

 you're quite funny and its sad at the same time

Edited August 18, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Sahne.6950]

(10 months later... )

 

The Necromancers getting stronger each day.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Kozumi.5816]

16 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It's like 4 hours of analysis vs. the curiously ridiculously strange matches I was getting in a row.

This has been going on for 5+ years now. The devs are in cahootz with the RMT boosters and literally do not care.

[Burnfall.9573]

1 hour ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

This has been going on for 5+ years now. The devs are in cahootz with the RMT boosters and literally do not care.

"If you permit it, you promote it"

Therefore; you are correct!

Edited August 18, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

2 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

"If you permit it, you promote it"

Therefore; you are correct!

Its Murphy's Law in full effect. If something can happen, it will happen. Arenanet isn't totally oblivious either. It's true that they just don't care, and I hope their next expansion (or whatever they want to call it) flops miserably. If they won't listen to our words, maybe they'll listen to our money. Target & Bud light sure did.

17 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

(10 months later... )

 

The Necromancers getting stronger each day.

Wasn't anything unholy that brought this thread back. It has risen, praise be 🙏

Doubt if you will, but this thread tells the truth, which will forever rest upon lies like oil over water. Godspeed. 

[Okhu.7948]

Complaining about wintrading doesn't matter because the developers are part of the problem. Since they're friends with the wintraders in question.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 8/18/2023 at 7:42 PM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Its Murphy's Law in full effect. If something can happen, it will happen. Arenanet isn't totally oblivious either. It's true that they just don't care, and I hope their next expansion (or whatever they want to call it) flops miserably. If they won't listen to our words, maybe they'll listen to our money. Target & Bud light sure did.

Gotta lol at 'Target' and 'Bud Light' name drop in this context when this community is probably the friendliest to LGBTQ on the entire internet. 

Also, your icon Kid Rock is drinking Bud again, so no, not even there was your money heard 😃.

Same applies here, people will buy the xpac to keep the game going, and you angry forum dwellers will give them site traffic to keep the cycle going.  

[CK rimeiller.5014]

On 8/19/2023 at 5:22 AM, Okhu.7948 said:

Complaining about wintrading doesn't matter because the developers are part of the problem. Since they're friends with the wintraders in question.

Indeed. And the cycle repeats all the time. Currently it is Shorts not getting tired to brag how he has power in balance now because one of his friends became dev not too long ago. I am sure it is not Tpot or Roy, so must be someone was hired after them. 

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by CK rimeiller.5014

[ccccc.4963]

Is it a running joke to talk about anyone except rodrigo/brazilian goldfarmers for thrown games on the forums?

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

11 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Gotta lol at 'Target' and 'Bud Light' name drop in this context...

It's got nothing to do with political ideology and identity politics and I'm not willing to engage in either as these are video game forums, not reddit, and I would rather find a way to find a relevant application here in this context.

The point being in bringing up those 2 particular boycotts was their effectiveness. Target's quarterly sales sunk 5.4% in the 2nd quarter; the lowest they've been in 6 years, and Bud Light's dropped by 10.5% in the same period of time which represents a record low. While 5.4% and 10.5% may not seem like a lot, when a company is pulling billions in revenue these percentage losses represent millions of $ which cannot simply be ignored. These are businesses, they exist to make money; profit, not to give charity and preach morals. That would be the responsibility of a non-profit organization, religious institutions, and activists.

Arenanet and NCsoft are not non-profit companies. They exist to make money at the end of the day, and that is not a bad thing, that doesn't make them evil, but when a company starts to show contempt and blatant disregard for its consumers, a report and an angry paragraph on the forums does nothing to make them reconsider. They don't speak that language. It's money that talks.

11 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Also, your icon Kid Rock is drinking Bud again, so no, not even there was your money heard 😃.

Same applies here, people will buy the xpac to keep the game going, and you angry forum dwellers will give them site traffic to keep the cycle going.  

I had to google who that was if that tells you anything. Whether the boycott is successful or not doesn't really matter as it really just boils down to consumer preference. If you feel a company has wronged you, then you just go somewhere else, build different habits. That's one of the great beauties of a free and competitive market. If I feel like enjoying a different bevvie or shopping somewhere else, I can do that, just like I can play a different MMO. That's not done thinking it all boils down to me and how I think, as that would be an incredibly self-centered and arrogant mindset to possess.

"O Lord, my heart is not lifted up; my eyes are not raised too high; I do not occupy myself with things too great and too marvelous for me." -Psalms 131:1 | One of my favourites 🙏