Anet logic.

[Okhu.7948]

Flamethrower needs to be nerfed damage-wise because it's a brainless kit that is unfun to play against in PvP. But also, hey check out these engineer rifle changes that make rifle autos into even worse to play against flamethrower like attacks that are longer range. Anet's logic is unsurpassable.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Okhu.7948

[Choyacute.8591]

Long time ago i played a lot of flamethrower scrapper but then they heavily nerfed it making it unplayable.

 

Then the rifle rework appears, Anet just tell us to give up on engineer shield (Heavily nerfed the cooldown), to give up on flamethrower (except for condi build).

 Anet want us to play rifle by killing other alternative.

 

With mechanist rifle being one of the spec the most easy to play and kill noobs, making the climb a nice experience.

 

And on a final word. One of the balance dev play Mechanist.

 

Edit: (I love rifle, it's a nice alternative to the flamethrower, i'm just sad they nerfed flamethrower 😢 and the shield, now i play rifle because Anet want us to play it)

Edited September 4, 2022 by Choyacute.8591

[Okhu.7948]

I don't love rifle anymore, and I'm an engineer player. They turned rifle into an idiot trap. Now one of the least played professions in the game is like a locust swarm of underwhelming rifle engineers.

[bethekey.8314]

The old flamethrower build was a combination of more things than the auto attack damage alone. The combination of rapid, no LoS attacks paired with Scrapper quickness and Juggernaut stab + might put it over the top.

A quick test on the Medium Golem:

New rifle damage on zerker stats: ~600 non-crit chain, ~1300 crit chain

This is about the same, if not the same, damage as the rifle auto had before, just spread out over 3 hits. It could be that Aim-Assisted Rocket is what you're actually upset about? Maybe the psychological effect of getting hit more times?

Personally I have no trouble against current rifle spam builds. They're usually not very good players. LoS, CC, and conditions work well on them compared to the Flamethrower builds of old.

Edited September 5, 2022 by bethekey.8314

[Hotride.2187]

New rifle is glass, flamethrower was pretty tanky. I'd fight new rifle any day over how FT was.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

3 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

New rifle is glass, flamethrower was pretty tanky. I'd fight new rifle any day over how FT was.

Big Boomer works with rifle autos..

[oscuro.9720]

16 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

The old flamethrower build was a combination of more things than the auto attack damage alone. The combination of rapid, no LoS attacks paired with Scrapper quickness and Juggernaut stab + might put it over the top.

A quick test on the Medium Golem:

New rifle damage on zerker stats: ~600 non-crit chain, ~1300 crit chain

This is about the same, if not the same, damage as the rifle auto had before, just spread out over 3 hits. It could be that Aim-Assisted Rocket is what you're actually upset about? Maybe the psychological effect of getting hit more times?

Personally I have no trouble against current rifle spam builds. They're usually not very good players. LoS, CC, and conditions work well on them compared to the Flamethrower builds of old.

Just to give a bit more of a true-numerical representation of the alteration;

 

Hip shot had a .44 multiplier over a .84 second total-cast, resulting in a coefficient/cast time of .5238.

 

Rifle Burst+Grenade has a total multiplier of of .552 over a 1 second total-cast, resulting in a coefficient/cast time of .552. 
 

This means there was about a 5% increase in damage with the auto attack change, not all that much, but not nothing. 

[Axl.8924]

I'm going to defend a bit scrapper it seems when i saw it that even though they have some tools they have to stand still and strafe aroudn to get those hits and can't just run at you, making them vulnerable and  they had some weaknesses so its not like they were invincible.

[Kuma.1503]

Big issue people had with Flamethrower was perma stab. Pair that with free might gen and  you had an obnoxious combo. 

Rifle has the damage, but you can lock it down and burst it. Especially if the Engi is running firearms. 

 

As for the changes. 

Rifle auto barely got buffed in PvP. 

It does 3 hits instead of 1 with roughly the same overall DPS as before. It feels a lot stronger, but that's placebo.

The bump in damage mostly comes from Aim Assisted Rocket and the fact that some engis are dropping  Alchemy in favor of firearms. 

Firearms + A-AR makes engi hit a lot harder than people are used to, but it also gives up all the amazing Alchemy traits like Elixir E, Protection Injection, and HGH.

Blunderbuss also has a lower cooldown, so Engis can combo with it more often than they used to. 

If you see an Engi running rifle, and you determine that they're not running alchemy, just focus them down. They're a lot squishier than your average Engi, so they should pop. Bonus points if you have a thief or herald because without shield, they usually rely on toolkit's block, and their unblockables eat right through it. 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I only find mechs that are a liability if on my team or absolutely destroy my teammates if on enemy team....

[greedywholesome.9081]

I theory crafted a scrapper build months ago and used the bomb kit (which I haven't touched in years). I literally cackled when I used the toolbelt Big Ol Bomb do 19dmg. I used to love playing engie especially holo, heck I still play it sometimes. 

 

For the scrapper rifle build, when ppl realized that cspecter and c harb could stall and even defeat the bladesworn, it affected the viability of the build because it is super weak to CC and condi like the warrior BS but without the sustain. 

[Aeolus.3615]

30 minutes ago, greedywholesome.9081 said:

For the scrapper rifle build, when ppl realized that cspecter and c harb could stall and even defeat the bladesworn, it affected the viability of the build because it is super weak to CC and condi like the warrior BS but without the sustain. 

If its melee cant win to range that's Anet reasoning... they hate melee combat >_>

[noneHotBuildTest.7251]

Engi need a god dam nerf!

[Sahne.6950]

2 hours ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said:

Engi need a god dam nerf!

bro your playing Tempest :D

[miriforst.1290]

50 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

bro your playing Tempest 😄

Clearly it's a ruse since he is not testing HOT builds.

[noneHotBuildTest.7251]

21 hours ago, miriforst.1290 said:

Clearly it's a ruse since he is not testing HOT builds.

Tempest is one of my favourite, but one build hard counter engi is not the case.

If a build work on 99% of build  , it's OP, A-net should nerf it , engi OP.

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said:

Tempest is one of my favourite, but one build hard counter engi is not the case.

If a build work on 99% of build  , it's OP, A-net should nerf it , engi OP.

you should start talking about specific builds, rather than calling out a whole profession overpowered. There is over 10 possible builds that you could mean with that. It makes any form of discussion impossible and we just keep doing our loop-di-loops.

 

What build are we talking about?

What is overperforming?

What do you think could be done to fix these problems?

 

If you would answer these 3 questions we would be one HECK of a step closer to a real discussion.

[noneHotBuildTest.7251]

On 11/9/2022 at 4:27 PM, Sahne.6950 said:

you should start talking about specific builds, rather than calling out a whole profession overpowered. There is over 10 possible builds that you could mean with that. It makes any form of discussion impossible and we just keep doing our loop-di-loops.

 

What build are we talking about?

What is overperforming?

What do you think could be done to fix these problems?

 

If you would answer these 3 questions we would be one HECK of a step closer to a real discussion.

That is not "Prohibited posts" or "Datamined or Leaked Content".
NO MORE BAN PLS.
--------------------------------------------------------------

What build are we talking about?

What is overperforming?

Tool holo have is a snowball machine, it can farm bad player really hard.

 

What do you think could be done to fix these problems?

Remove supper speed and cc on holo and nerf damage, the cc on core engi is is already overwhelming.

Edited November 15, 2022 by noneHotBuildTest.7251

[pbalint.1607]

1 hour ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said:

That is not "Prohibited posts" or "Datamined or Leaked Content".
NO MORE BAN PLS.
--------------------------------------------------------------

What build are we talking about?

What is overperforming?

Tool holo have is a snowball machine, it can farm bad player really hard.

 

What do you think could be done to fix these problems?

Remove supper speed and cc on holo and nerf damage, the cc on core engi is is already overwhelming.

 

Engineer is balanced, just learn to play!

[Sahne.6950]

3 hours ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said:

That is not "Prohibited posts" or "Datamined or Leaked Content".
NO MORE BAN PLS.
--------------------------------------------------------------

What build are we talking about?

What is overperforming?

Tool holo have is a snowball machine, it can farm bad player really hard.

 

What do you think could be done to fix these problems?

Remove supper speed and cc on holo and nerf damage, the cc on core engi is is already overwhelming.

The thing is right here: in the video he cuts out anything, besides some quick bursts, against people how dont use half of their kit. Maybe they used their skills earlier? maybe they are bad? we dont know, because most clips are just a few seconds of him bursting someone that is not reacting properly.

just take the first spellbreaker clip... this dude almost melts in a mere 10 seconds... because... he got CCed twice!?....... and then they finish him in a 2v1..... what is that supposed to show? that the spellbreaker was bad!?

Some dude dumping all of his "best off " clips into a single 2 minute video doesnt justify anything.

I could create a 10 minute montage where i oneshot people with FreshairWeaver, but that doesnt justify a nerf.

This dude is winning those fights, because he has good movement and, atleast in those few clips, is outskilling the enemys. They just do their 0815 dps rotation into his defensive skills and then melt at the next CC.... idk man.

i wont even mention that some of those fights are also 2v1´s or teamfights that he joins late to deal the final 3k damage.

btw: "remove superspeed" and "remove CC" are not valid balance suggestions.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[noneHotBuildTest.7251]

On 11/15/2022 at 3:43 PM, Sahne.6950 said:

The thing is right here: in the video he cuts out anything, besides some quick bursts, against people how dont use half of their kit. Maybe they used their skills earlier? maybe they are bad? we dont know, because most clips are just a few seconds of him bursting someone that is not reacting properly.

just take the first spellbreaker clip... this dude almost melts in a mere 10 seconds... because... he got CCed twice!?....... and then they finish him in a 2v1..... what is that supposed to show? that the spellbreaker was bad!?

Some dude dumping all of his "best off " clips into a single 2 minute video doesnt justify anything.

I could create a 10 minute montage where i oneshot people with FreshairWeaver, but that doesnt justify a nerf.

This dude is winning those fights, because he has good movement and, atleast in those few clips, is outskilling the enemys. They just do their 0815 dps rotation into his defensive skills and then melt at the next CC.... idk man.

i wont even mention that some of those fights are also 2v1´s or teamfights that he joins late to deal the final 3k damage.

btw: "remove superspeed" and "remove CC" are not valid balance suggestions.

That is not "Prohibited posts" or "Datamined or Leaked Content" or "Duplicate Posts"
NO MORE BAN PLS.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Floody is one of best player for sure, but the thing is engi ttk , and the prema superspeed make it have best rotation ability, and it can farm bad player really fast.

If floody play a condi tempest , it can win the duel  as well, but when it got mid the emany was respawn.

Edited November 17, 2022 by noneHotBuildTest.7251