One small but very important adjustment/change can make Guild Alliances a good and profitable update for GW2 and WvW remains... WvW!

[Dawdler.8521]

7 hours ago, Reborn.2934 said:

i said that the its implementation is disaster and catastrophic for wvw

Ok, but how? People keep saying it, yet they cant really show something for it, except feelings.

We know that the beta weeks was... just normal WvW with new (and old) faces on more evenly populated teams. 

We also know that alliances is only a method to organize something the size of a guild without forcing people to leave their current guilds.

Where is the looming disaster coming from? 

[Mabi black.1824]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Ok, but how? People keep saying it, yet they cant really show something for it, except feelings.

We know that the beta weeks was... just normal WvW with new (and old) faces on more evenly populated teams. 

We also know that alliances is only a method to organize something the size of a guild without forcing people to leave their current guilds.

Where is the looming disaster coming from? 

It is clear that it is not a looming disaster, and the new system actually gives servers much more similar to each other. This is important and improves the gaming experience. That said, if now (for all the problems we know well) winning or losing in WWW has no meaning and does not prove anything, with alliances it will be the same thing or even less. This is the only problem that some of us see in the near future.

It is an experience that I personally verified in the weeks of beta (perhaps because we know that they are only a week of trial) I had little interest in putting a tag to defend or capture anything, and as the days of the week passed, different groups behaved as if they had no common interest, each one on his way.

The hypothesis is that 8 weeks and you find yourself in a new team, are very few. Players have little time to make a group, and you have several groups will lack a common, shared construction, a common goal. Because it is still unclear how players can compare with each other. In the long run, how are they going to climb a leaderboard, and how can they claim to have won something.

Unless that's actually something Anet wants on purpose. Practically play this WWW mode with many teams actually simi and a lot of fun. Because winning a game is deliberately meaningless.

If this is the case, just say so, and I understand it too. Only time will tell if we get more players and more content in this mode, and if the chosen direction is the right one.

Of course we could also avoid a jump into the void without a parachute. It would be enough to use alliances and make them work with a system still based on servers. Keeping the concept of world vs world. Worlds are still the fundamental tool to climb a leaderboard and win a tournament.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[Xenesis.6389]

7 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

That said, if now (for all the problems we know well) winning or losing in WWW has no meaning and does not prove anything, with alliances it will be the same thing or even less.

That's a problem with the game play systems, not world restructuring/alliances.

Game play for ppt/ppk, motivations to win, need to be improved, and mostly likely anet thinks that will come when they review and update rewards, or perhaps add in leaderboard stuff. But they can't hand out more rewards when it can be unfairly lopsided to stacked servers, the tournaments were an example of this.

World restructuring is not the one and only system that is expected to solve every issue in wvw, people need to understand it's purpose and stop tacking on extra expectations to it.

[Custodio.6134]

exactly. World Restructuring has 2 specific tasks to do / problems to solve: 

1. create balanced teams based on guilds, alliances and solo players (while considering a multitude of factors), by making the groups of people (currently static servers) smaller, which makes the process of creating teams way more granular (and as result, more balanced)

2. make your options to "choose" who to play with easier (by joining a guild/alliance)

 

that´s it. nothing more, nothing less. 

anything else will not be affected by WR, and WR is NOT intended to solve any other problems than that. It has nothing to do with rewards, it has nothing to do with giving winning a matchup a purpose, It has nothing to do with how PPT/PPK impact the game, it has nothing to do with game balance, or whatever hope you can come up with (just wanted to make a few examples that frequently pop up)

[Mabi black.1824]

19 hours ago, Custodio.6134 said:

exactly. World Restructuring has 2 specific tasks to do / problems to solve: 

1. create balanced teams based on guilds, alliances and solo players (while considering a multitude of factors), by making the groups of people (currently static servers) smaller, which makes the process of creating teams way more granular (and as result, more balanced)

2. make your options to "choose" who to play with easier (by joining a guild/alliance)

 

that´s it. nothing more, nothing less. 

anything else will not be affected by WR, and WR is NOT intended to solve any other problems than that. It has nothing to do with rewards, it has nothing to do with giving winning a matchup a purpose, It has nothing to do with how PPT/PPK impact the game, it has nothing to do with game balance, or whatever hope you can come up with (just wanted to make a few examples that frequently pop up)

You're probably right, your two points will definitely be addressed, and it will be great to get them. However, McKenna declared WR's goals in 2018.

 

The goals of the World Restructuring system are:

•  -Create great matches
•  -Handle population fluctuations
•  -Balance teams
•  -Diversify WvW experiences 
•  
• So we should try to agree on what we mean by ''Great Matches'' My personal thought is that to get it you have to somehow involve the players, you have to stimulate the players to be transported to create content that leads you to a common goal. Mind you getting balanced games is beautiful. But when you've ended your 8-week game without a purpose, it may be unpleasant. if players are transported and involved in a great competition even just in the medium term (1 year and then you start again) maybe it could be more beautiful.The project of WR are doing it now, and if you do not take into account all these aspects, you could develop something that brings with it problems later. I think it is smarter and more appropriate to reason and discuss this now.When we get the new mechanic after so many years, the reaction of the average player could be:
• wow finally we have nice balanced games but winning still means nothing........... Or:
• wow finally balanced matches, and we also have a new reference ranking a new medal table and Anet gives us an official tournament to participate in, WWW plays really new music.

That first point of McKenna is a lot of stuff, and it should not be underestimated, but it must be addressed.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[Reborn.2934]

On 11/22/2022 at 12:29 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Ok, but how? People keep saying it, yet they cant really show something for it, except feelings.

We know that the beta weeks was... just normal WvW with new (and old) faces on more evenly populated teams. 

We also know that alliances is only a method to organize something the size of a guild without forcing people to leave their current guilds.

Where is the looming disaster coming from? 

 

the looming disaster is coming from what i have seen during beta weeks. What i have seen the whole day, not only the peak hours...

 

but, since i saw you answered  this post that the problem was during peak hours in USA 

 

 

and like always you defended anet on how they are implementing the guild alliances in wvw

 

 

for yours and anet's debrief....

 

i have to say that the same happened to EU servers prime time and it was predictable to happen when they are creating entities without stable background.

 

WvW had at least Servers as background and they can create equal pairs as i have write on my site at the pinned post.

 

Guild Alliances will have guilds as background that will do whatever they want inside the game. Today exist but tomorrow ... not! ******

 

now i am sure that if the guild alliances remain as they were in beta weeks will not only destroy WvW, but guild wars 2 as game itself since WvW is connected with legendary crafting that is one of the 2 hidden end game* parts of gw2 as game....

*the other one end game has code name... fashion wars 2.

 

p.s.. as you can see i was waiting the proper time to answer you Mr 10k posts. You can't imaging what i have ready to post to my site when anet finally destroys WvW as they are doing after 2014  when ended the first and last championship of wvw. 

what championship? this :  https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/wvwsilver?sort=rating&sort_direction=asc

 

****** unless anet says that they will control guilds in wvw... i am sure even this is happening or happened in the past they are not so stupid to admit it in public!  :-x)

Edited December 9, 2022 by Reborn.2934

[Dawdler.8521]

9 hours ago, Reborn.2934 said:

WvW had at least Servers as background and they can create equal pairs as i have write on my site at the pinned post.

Right, and linked pairs have been so equal since they implemented them with no problems at all and they have had the exact same populations since they started for perfect balance.

I can already imagine your super secret posts will be like most "solutions" on the forums, an impractical mess that doesnt actually solve anything.

[Reborn.2934]

On 12/9/2022 at 10:28 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Right, and linked pairs have been so equal since they implemented them with no problems at all and they have had the exact same populations since they started for perfect balance.

I can already imagine your super secret posts will be like most "solutions" on the forums, an impractical mess that doesnt actually solve anything.

 

no  you can't imagine because your role here is to annoy players and when you can't handle the forum post to move/remove or lock it ...

 

so Mr 10k posts "my solutions" are coming from the fact that i am the customer and i know what i will pay to play and what not.

 

simple as that and i keep my promises because i already didn't pay the expansion to be better on roaming (EoD) and i will not pay to play an expansion that it will be a downgrade and a destructive game-mode for my Server.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Reborn.2934

[Custodio.6134]

54 minutes ago, Reborn.2934 said:

at and i keep my promises because i already didn't pay the expansion to be better on roaming (EoD) and i will not pay to play an expansion that it will be a downgrade and a destructive game-mode for my Server.

but we´re talking about population-balance and WR here, which isn´t related to any type of expansion at all. so even if you don´t buy it, you will get it anyway

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Reborn.2934 said:

so Mr 10k posts "my solutions" are coming from the fact that i am the customer and i know what i will pay to play and what not.

Customer feedback has enormous value, but only to an extent as identifying a problem.

Case in point: players stack servers because they believe this will improve their WvW experience (or rather increase their win/loss ratio which is not necessarily the same as increasing fun). Same players then come and complain that they have no opponents, are being dodged, have long queues, etc.

Here is a nice article and quote to go along from Sean Murray (Founder of Hello Games, or easier: No Man's Sky). Think what you want of him or how the game launched, it has been a huge success story since with years of great content:

Quote

“Players are normally almost always right about problems,” Murray tells us. “That’s the thing I always find. They’re almost never right about the solutions – or they can never agree on them, anyway. So they’ll be like, ‘Oh, I don’t like your inventory system,’ and they’ll tell you crazy things that they want you to do to solve that. Generally that isn’t the most useful thing."

- https://www.pcgamesn.com/no-mans-sky/problems

So yes, you have identified a problem as customer. That does not automatically mean you have any capacity to solve said problem.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Reborn.2934]

2 hours ago, Custodio.6134 said:

but we´re talking about population-balance and WR here, which isn´t related to any type of expansion at all. so even if you don´t buy it, you will get it anyway

 

population balance?

 

come on man, NOBODY with brain speaks for population issues in WvW.

 

Players were always asking from Anet to stop rewarding the cheaters and the no-brain blobbers and Anet did exactly the opposite during time. 

 

Anet gave to more proffesions the boonstrip skills and traits, Anet removed the no contested waypoint after some minutes, Anet made the emergency Waypoint a static position and now attackers know where to bomb the place, Anet removed the ability to revive Lords, Anet increased the boon shares to 10 people from 5(and they reverse it some months ago), Anet allow waypoints on enemy Keeps to disourage the pve gamers from playing this trolling WvW etc, etc and finally Anet's is this game-mode that we play but we don't create it, Anet created it!

 

There are so many changes during time that all gamers can understand now where they come form and they are stop playing the game-mode when their enemies are excessive blobbing or cheating like  Deso+ WR did the last week and guilds and roamers stopped playing against them. 

 

and this for their cheaters

 

 

so the only real issue in WvW is the Anet's behavior and character who don't recognize that the WvW player-base asks only for fair game and nothing else!

 

p.s.  i have a lot of screenshots from 2013-2014 alone in wvw maps during nights...  so where is the population balance speak comes from when the golden age of WvW had no population at all during nights?

Edited January 14, 2023 by Reborn.2934

[Custodio.6134]

so, if you´re not talking about population balance, you may want to post in the correct forum then. 
This is the

Quote

WvW World Restructuring Beta Feedback

-subforum. Where we are supposed to... guess what: 
give feedback about World Restructuring. 

guess what your comment doesn't contain: anything related to World Restructuring. 

You are adressing issues about skill- and mechanics-balancing, cheating and exploits, and those belong to the World vs World Forums

[Draygo.9473]

With WvW restructuring they could finally actually award winning, one could hope. 

[Reborn.2934]

On 1/15/2023 at 2:18 AM, Custodio.6134 said:

so, if you´re not talking about population balance, you may want to post in the correct forum then. 
This is the

-subforum. Where we are supposed to... guess what: 
give feedback about World Restructuring. 

guess what your comment doesn't contain: anything related to World Restructuring. 

You are adressing issues about skill- and mechanics-balancing, cheating and exploits, and those belong to the World vs World Forums

 

so, if i can't talk about the existing WvW in a WvW Subforum i am officially asking Moderators to move my thread back where i initially posted it because

i posted the 1st post on WvW forums and it magically transfered after 1 minute to this subforum of... WvW.

Btw the correct title on your Anon Quote is this...

Quote

WvW World Destruction Beta Feedback

 

because this all about. Anet is searching the best way to destroy WvW with the minimum impact to the game and this is why they delayed what they started 4 years ago ...

"We will fix the Bad WvW by Destroying the only good thing wvw has, the Servers that are creating communities and ... WvW guilds because we can't fix every other exploit or hack inside the WvW"

this is all about and you are bringing on the surface this nosense problem about populations in WvW as excuse to troll me Anet?

ANET 

THERE IS NOT ANY POPULATION PROBLEM IN WVW. THIS PROBLEM IS INSIDE YOUR MIND AND ONLY.

Why?

i repeat it because i am sure i am speaking to deaf ears

DURING THE GOLDEN AGE OF WVW (2013-2014) WHERE WVW WAS FULL OF PEOPLE AND THIS SITUATION ENFORCED ANET TO CREATE THE EOTM THE REASON FOR THE FULL WVW MAPS WAS THE CHAMPIONSHIP AND GUESS WHAT WAS HAPPENING DURING NIGHTS INSIDE THE WVW MAPS?

HOME & EBG BORDELANDS WERE EMPTY.

 

YES DURING THE GOLDEN AGE OF WVW THE BORDELANDS WERE EMPTY AT LATE NIGHT AND NOBODY CARED ABOUT THAT BECAUSE WVW MAPS WERE FULL DURING THE DAY AND THE GAME WAS FULL OF PEOPLE.

after that someone decided that the chanpioship was bad and Anet stopped it and ofc WvW DECLINED!

and you are coming here to repeat this population bs? come on tell this crap to anyone that don't know what is really happening to this game. 

SECRET BONUS INFO FOR GUILD ALLIANCES BETA

during the guild alliance betas old guilds logged to play GvG in Eotm... this is your 1.000.000 KILLS ANET that you are still thinking betas were succefully

 

p.s. now you all know at anet that you don't know what i will write to my site when you will destroy WvW to fix a problem that exists inside your minds and only!

Edited January 20, 2023 by Reborn.2934

[Mabi black.1824]

It is worth clarifying a few things. I am in EU and I usually go online after dinner. and every day I see a lot of players, very often on all 3 sides (unless you find or you are the unlucky server without link)

Alliances and WR do not arrive because there is a demographic problem, they arrive with the aim of redistributing in the best way all the players in the different servers, in terms of flow of number of players, with the opportunity to add other parameters (tag time and skills and time zone for example) to further improve this goal. If the activity of the players and their content is better distributed, you can guarantee more fun for everyone. ( which does not mean that everyone will have to win, because the rule is always the same in competition, the team that wins is only one )

I have been in my server since day 1, I have never transferred and I do not have an alternative account, and I enjoy every day in one way or another even when I lose badly.

Despite this I tell you that I am happy that alliances arrive, indeed I can not wait because I will no longer see servers that remain without links, I will no longer see servers overloaded by a bunch of players who transfer the day after the reconnections, with the result of emptying the other side, which remains with half of the players it had before,  So everyone left uses their alternate account emptying even more that server etc etc.

The only thing I think needs to be emphasized is that when we finally have alliances and WRs, we will finally have the opportunity to play this mode with all the servers really similar to each other. The competition returns to be something credible, which will deserve all my and your initiatives or content or playing time that each of us is willing to put.

So why give up everything, making the concept of servers completely useless just because it is continuously deleted every 8 weeks, without drawing anything inside those 8 weeks, (because they are too short) we finally get all similar servers and give up building a great competition between these servers. ( which is essentially what WWW players want, as evidenced by all the private tournament and competition initiatives you can see usually in www.mist )

[Mabi black.1824]

Otherwise if the problem of this mode in the future becomes a demographic problem, then ANET will probably merge a series of servers , decreases the number of servers.

Or if the number of players remains unchanged but Anet chooses to invest in this mode to increase his portfolio (because he considers this mode a cornerstone of GW2) then it will be time that you will see new things, new maps, new competitive events, competitive newspapers, new special prizes etc etc .

But alliances and WRs have nothing to do with this.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Mabi black.1824