Mirage Cloak: How to make it work better

[Curunen.8729]

Well personally I think the concept is no different - ie they've tried to give us back mobility removed from dodge on utility and weapon skills so having a multifunctional dodge (moving and not moving options) would be more elegant and flexible allowing space for new utility skill design.

But the whole thing is probably moot anyway given it's unlikely to change.

[Esplen.3940]

I believe your argument is flawed, Ohoni. You could apply that logic to any change they consider or even implement. Just because it's not there now doesn't mean it's not in line with their vision or goal of the profession. Of course, I personally believe that stating opinions on what should get implemented to fix it is a waste of breath (even though I participated in that in this discussion), but by stating that anything that goes against what is currently shown is a different concept is a flawed belief.

[Dondagora.9645]

My fellow Mesmers, let me explain why I feel a blink is infinitely better than the Superspeed they gave us.

We don't have to move.

As it stands, many of those who disagree with this concept have stated that the point of Mirage Cloak is that you don't move while dodging, which is half true, with the other point being that you can attack during it. This lack of mobility is meant to help us blend with clones, to deceive the enemy.

Well, are you just going to stand in an AoE circle and let yourself be mowed down? I think not! At which point, the "point" of Mirage Cloak is lost in this instance, as your moving gives you away blatantly. Instead, by using a blink + minimal stealth, you can maintain the "illusion" that you are a clone. The enemy does not see you move, instead you get to remain "still" and relocate to safety.

This suggestion is not made to remove the intent and uniqueness of Mirage Cloak, merely to enhance it so that it might fully accomplish its supposed purpose, which (to my understanding) is to become hidden amongst clones.

[Curunen.8729]

Regarding cast while dodging - if the contextual blink dodge functions like other teleports then it shouldn't interrupt your cast either - so you could ambush while blink dodging or ambush while standing still.

[Ohoni.6057]

@Dondagora.9645 said:Well, are you just going to stand in an AoE circle and let yourself be mowed down? I think not!

But the point is, if ANet is going to make the Mirage "the class that dodges without moving," then obviously they should also be "the class that CAN stand in the AoE circle without getting mowed down. Simple solution, really. And for those situations where you do need to get out of dodge, being able to move at full super speed in all directions would be plenty. There's just no need for a "link" effect beyond "I think it'd look cool."

[Dondagora.9645]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Dondagora.9645 said:Well, are you just going to stand in an AoE circle and let yourself be mowed down? I think not!

But the point is, if ANet is going to make the Mirage "the class that dodges without moving," then obviously they should also be "the class that CAN stand in the AoE circle

without

getting mowed down. Simple solution, really. And for those situations where you do need to get out of dodge, being able to move at full super speed in all directions would be plenty. There's just no need for a "link" effect beyond "I think it'd look cool."

It isn't a "I think it'd look cool" thing. The point of making it a blink rather than a movement is that it maintains the illusion of being a clone. It is a relocation without forcing you to reveal yourself with movement. It is an elimination, partially at least, of one of the things which gives one away to the enemy of being the real Mesmer.

The other way of doing this would be to increase the time of the Mirage Cloak to something like 3 seconds or so, thus that we might have enough time to simply evade through the danger.

Contrary, I believe it is the Superspeed that is a band-aid on a broken mechanic. They say they're giving us a dodge that will allow us to stay in place while avoiding the damage, to attack while doing so, yet they give us Super Speed such that we "technically" don't lose mobility (while we're "practically" made clunky). This means that they acknowledge the necessity to move with evasion to truly remove ourselves from danger with such a short dodge, that the Mirage Cloak alone is not enough to make up for the loss of the original dodge's survivability. If I were to say it, Mirage Cloak is simply an inferior dodge with a very minimal trade-off provided. "You can attack while not taking damage", but how much damage do we output in that mere 0.75 seconds that pays us back for our ability to position?

So, in short, I have addressed your claim that this suggestion is meant to just "look cool" as well as your claim that Super Speed should be plenty with:

• This suggestion functions to support Mirage's fundamental premise of "becoming the illusion/clone", while Super Speed does not. Thus, this suggestion holds functional reasons why it should be, while Super Speed does not functionally support the idea of "Mirage".
• If Mirage is the class that "dodges without moving", then we shouldn't need Super Speed in the first place, and Mirage Cloak should just be strong enough that we wouldn't have to move. Because it does have Super Speed, and because it isn't strong enough, that means it is not ANet's goal to make Mirage the non-moving dodger. So the suggestion is made in-line with both ANet's goals of "making the dodge allow movement" and "the Mirage can pass as a clone".

So we're left with a quandary. Either you should remove the mobility from Mirage Cloak and enhance its ability to evade damage, especially in AoE, or you should acknowledge that movement is necessary and ensure that the mobility provided is in-line with the Mirage Cloak's purpose of blending in with clones (meaning not giving you away). In either case, Super Speed is most definitely not "plenty".

[Ohoni.6057]

@Dondagora.9645 said:It isn't a "I think it'd look cool" thing. The point of making it a blink rather than a movement is that it maintains the illusion of being a clone. It is a relocation without forcing you to reveal yourself with movement. It is an elimination, partially at least, of one of the things which gives one away to the enemy of being the real Mesmer.

I don't know about that, I think if you dodge and all the clone Blink in some random direction, then the "real clone" is the one that didn't blink to somewhere stupid and pointless.

This means that they acknowledge the necessity to move with evasion to truly remove ourselves from danger with such a short dodge, that the Mirage Cloak alone is not enough to make up for the loss of the original dodge's survivability.

It is situational though. In many cases the evade frames are enough, but sometimes, yes, you do need to leave an area because there will be bad things happening there for several seconds. I think that Superspeed IF it applies equally in all directions, would be a suitable balance. I think that in its current form, where you still back-peddle at reduced speed, is not alone sufficient.

but how much damage do we output in that mere 0.75 seconds that pays us back for our ability to position?

That's not quite fair to it. It's not just about the 0.75 seconds, it also includes that you don't have to interrupt the casting of other moves, so it could impact at least a few seconds of activity. Also, I think that if they address the directional issues, being able to freely travel at "dodge speeds" within the range of a dodge does have an advantage over the standard dodge roll (or a blink) in that you can move exactly where you want, whereas a dodge puts you at a specific location. Playing as a Daredevil, I often use Vault instead of dodge in order to avoid attacks, because in some situations, my standard dodge would cause me to roll off a cliff or into fire, whereas the targeted nature of Vault allows me to move to a specific safe location. In these situations, a Mirage would be able to hoof it to exactly where he'd want to be. I like this effect, they just need to make it work right.

If Mirage is the class that "dodges without moving", then we shouldn't need Super Speed in the first place, and Mirage Cloak should just be strong enough that we wouldn't have to move.

And I do propose that as a way to go with this. I still want the 8-way Superspeed because mobility is inherently a good thing, but I do think that they should double down on the Mirage's "unmoving" nature by giving Mirages some form of AoE armor, like Ranger Pets have had for a while now. Not permanent, of course, but maybe like a few seconds after each dodge.

[Esplen.3940]

Clones don't dodge when you do. Unless you're talking about Infinite Horizon which won't confuse the opponent as you're still pretty obvious whether or not you've given all your clones an Ambush.

@Ohoni.6057 said:

but how much damage do we output in that mere 0.75 seconds that pays us back for our ability to position?That's not

quite

fair to it. It's not

just

about the 0.75 seconds, it also includes that you don't have to interrupt the casting of other moves, so it could impact at least a few seconds of activity.I mean, that's also not

quite

fair, either. Sure, a Mesmer doesn't need to interrupt their rotation if they time their dodge correctly, but what are they going to do with it? Finish casting Blurred Frenzy (oh wait)? Finish casting Confusing Images (could have just walked out of the attack in many cases)? Yes, you can finish casting whatever ability you're getting out, but the average cast time is less than a second and usually not do or die. So you save a second (you could say you save 0.75s, hue) but for a Mesmer this doesn't actually amount to anything.

I may get this wrong (because I hear I have awful analogies) but Mirage Cloak is similar to Daredevil's class mechanic being a third dodge BUT without having an upgraded dodge attached. Yes, you get a third dodge and can use it. But it doesn't do anything special. It's just there. You could play it as if it wasn't there and nothing would be different. You can't really play around it because it's hard to incorporate that into anything when it doesn't do anything except be there.

[Ohoni.6057]

@Esplen.3940 said:Clones don't dodge when you do. Unless you're talking about Infinite Horizon which won't confuse the opponent as you're still pretty obvious whether or not you've given all your clones an Ambush.

Well if you Blink away and the clones stay put then that would be a pretty solid indication as to which the clone is.

[Curunen.8729]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Esplen.3940 said:Clones don't dodge when you do. Unless you're talking about Infinite Horizon which won't confuse the opponent as you're still pretty obvious whether or not you've given all your clones an Ambush.

Well if you Blink away and the clones stay put then that would be a pretty solid indication as to which the clone is.

Not if all the clones blinked in the same direction as you when you blinked (ie the entire "mirage" shifts position).

[Dondagora.9645]

Ah, this is all assuming that Infinite Horizon is baseline. Seems I took that for granted, which is my bad.

[zealex.9410]

@Dondagora.9645 said:My fellow Mesmers, let me explain why I feel a blink is infinitely better than the Superspeed they gave us.

We don't have to move.

As it stands, many of those who disagree with this concept have stated that the point of Mirage Cloak is that you don't move while dodging, which is half true, with the other point being that you can attack during it. This lack of mobility is meant to help us blend with clones, to deceive the enemy.

Well, are you just going to stand in an AoE circle and let yourself be mowed down? I think not! At which point, the "point" of Mirage Cloak is lost in this instance, as your moving gives you away blatantly. Instead, by using a blink + minimal stealth, you can maintain the "illusion" that you are a clone. The enemy does not see you move, instead you get to remain "still" and relocate to safety.

This suggestion is not made to remove the intent and uniqueness of Mirage Cloak, merely to enhance it so that it might fully accomplish its supposed purpose, which (to my understanding) is to become hidden amongst clones.

Idk if you adressed this but it would have imo a bad feel to use s then dodge to dodge backwards if the dodge alone doesnt move you.

Igenually dig the idea of small blinks but i believe that just because anet didnt think it that way when making it they wont go that far. It would also have abit of a wierd interaction when you get mirage cloack from mirrors.

[Tseison.4659]

Hmm, you know I've always just imagined Mirage Cloak sort of acting like the Necromancers Death Shroud bar. So Mirage Cloak has its own separate bar, filled when you summon illusions and also when your illusions attacks. Then you can activate the Mirage Cloak to give you a set of skills that have a variety of attacks, effects and allows you to evade. Just a thought though. I just feel that the whole ambush attacks would be more of a invisibility thing like what Thieves have instead of putting it under some "new" effect called "Mirage Cloak" when all it is is just an ambush attack upon blur instead of a ambush attack upon invisibility .

They could 've just given Mesmers the ambush attacks as a baseline whenever you are stealthed . What if they come out with lets say a main hand dagger or hammer, bows etc... They'll never get an ambush attack because those will likely be linked to the new Elite Spec and we can only run one at a time so...

But oh well, i'm not expecting much changes this friday so. :3

[Esplen.3940]

IMO, one of the better changes that could be made is: Ambush is now an F1 skill (changes based on active weapon). No cooldown, but unusable. It becomes available for use (indefinitely, 1 use) when you dodge.

@zealex.9410 You could just have it when you pop a Mirror, you don't blink. Similar to how you don't move when using Blurred Frenzy even though you're evading.