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In your general consensus: How much minimum Healing Power is somebody consider Support Healer and not DPS


Ausar.9542

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I was having a discussion about Druids in another thread when this sparked me to have this separate discussion.

 

Support Healers vs DPS. 

 

By definition, everybody can heal and everybody can deal damage. But not everybody is considered a DPS nor is everybody considered Support Heals.

 

Druid like all other support builds can be specced to do one or the other, with some cross over or shared skills used by both roles.           

 

But usually once a player stacks enough Healing Power Gear, their dps threshold isnt enough to be considered a serious DPS spec. 

 

 

I want to know what the general consensus is for the amount of Healing Power is considered the cutoff point for a Support healer spec to no longer be considered respected dps. 

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This is hard to answer due to many classes having different healing mods. 

Some classes need a lot of heal power to keep up, while others struggle almost not at all with just going celestial (~650healpower)

 

If talking about ,as example, celestial Firebrand or cele Herald, they can be an heal support, while also doing decent damage.

Theres also stuff like carrion Spectre, which is mostly the same as dps spectre, but can still heal a ton aswell.

 

If someone looks for Healer or Dps, most of the time is asked for a full harrier/giver/minstrel & viper/berserker/similar stats. But many crazy ideas can work perfectly fine for either role

Edited by Virdo.1540
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I think of it more along the lines of a spectrum of Support - Hybrid - DPS, rather than hard lines. 

So while one might roughly say <10k DPS with emphasis on boon/heal support = Support, 10-30k DPS with lesser boon/heal support = Hybrid and >30k DPS with little to no boon/heal support = DPS, I especially don't think it can be nailed down by investment in a single stat, but more of the whole context of what a Trait setup, Weapon/Utility/Specialisation skills and Stat investment (aka build) provides.

 

A lot of Healing Power investment alone, if your profession mechanic, weapon/utility skills and Trait choices don't provide opportunity to leverage that stat, doesn't make you a healer or support.

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It kinda depends on the healing coefficients on you heals. For elementalist the healing difference between 1000 (celestial) healing power and 1500 healing power (minstrel) is roughly 12.5%. Im pretty sure that you can even have enough healing for most raids/strikes if you go full zerk with outgoing healing food & rune of the Monk. 

I personally love going full cele heal alac temp. It has plenty of heal & dps potential. Had like an 12.5k hps on bone Skinner today with a sloppy group, so you still have good healing potential. For any less heal intensive fights i usually take fire traitline over arcane for some extra dps. The build benches around 16k-17k on Golem while maintaining perfectly fine healing potential 

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I'm the sort of player that If I get assigned a role, healer or support I put gear directly for that. 

Healers almost always run harriers but depends on the elite. For support you almost always run dps gear with boon duration sigils and runes (since it has more of an impact.)

Edited by Mell.4873
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Like other said it depends on too much factor to gives you a definitive number, after all it is not as much about healing power as it is about actually making sure your squad stays alive. If you want a rough idea of what it takes i'd say go to the test golem, put up a damaging field and try the fallowing test :

  1. In a medium damaging field - Am I able to heal through it without using burst heal and still maintain all the boon.
  2. In a hard damaging field - Am I able to heal through it if I go all in and pretty much ignore all boon application.

I'd say if you are able to do the first indefinitely and the second for at least 10 second then you should have enough healing in a real scenario. Being able to do the second indefinitely can be super useful in some niche case or if you play with novice players.


But yeah... Generally speaking healers go mostly harrier gear with healing food and rune which put them at around 1235 healing power without traits and healing infusion.

Edited by Guybrush.4762
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21 hours ago, Ausar.9542 said:

I want to know what the general consensus is for the amount of Healing Power is considered the cutoff point for a Support healer spec to no longer be considered respected dps. 

For druid that is actually very easy to answer - it's 0 healing power. DPS druid isn't a thing, it is a pure support spec. Even if you try to build for more dmg, it won't be able to reach respectable dps numbers.

So while it is technically true that "everyone can heal and everyone can deal dmg", not every spec can provide enough damage or support (which includes more than just healing btw), that it is worth considering for the respective role. And for those specs that can actually fullfill both roles, the assigned role depends more on traits and skills than gear/stats.

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Well druid itself doesnt have much power dps potential, and its condi is also low, wanting to be a heal dps spec is... kinda difficult, think that being a healer in, for example raids, means you not only need to heal an ele or a thief, wich have low health pool, but also things like warriors, necromancers etc, also you will prob end up having to heal the tank and people that either fail a mecanic receive dmg from some area attack etc, that means youll need a good base health to maintain their lifes and heal spikes to deal with some mecanics, rng misfortunes or people fails.

as a dps what id count as the minimun requirement on raids would be around 30k for a newcomer, its low on veteran views but you can clear raids with that, the problem is, not counting some exceptions theres no healer that can get to that dmg if they want to take healing power, plus the weapons/skills/traits to heal, cleanse condis, i guess you could get to around 25k at most if you try very very hard and sacrifice lots of healing.

Now with all that said, that only counts for the core stats power and healing power, and maybe condi dmg if you want a condi healer, now the thing is, its troublesome and not worth.

I know you can play as you want, but builds in raids are mostly focused on things for a reason, and thats eficiency, diviners and ritualist stats give lots of boon duration while lowering the minimun of dps either power or condi, wich makes a good combo as most boons you require can ve given with a couple of skills and traits, such as renegade, fb, meca, etc.

As for stats that would work for a dps healer it would be power prec feroc and hpower, or expertise cdmg and hpower.

The closest one would be zealot and it lacks ferocity so your dmg would still be incredibly low compared to others, as for stat combos... i guess you could? but probably would still fall short compared to a pure dps and a harrier healer combo, wich brings more and in an easyer way.

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3 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said:

as a dps what id count as the minimun requirement on raids would be around 30k for a newcomer

Nah you definitely dont need that much dmge as a dps. Raids/strikes barely have any dps tests. If the dps in the squad can upkeep 10k dps during most encounters you should already be fine. 

Often higher dps can neglect some boss mechanics or decrease the amount of boss mechanics, but i'd say in general bosses without permadeath mechanics benefit from taking extra healer/hybrid or by adding some surviveability utilities to the dps.  A dps that's alive simply deals alot more dmge then a downed/defeated one. 

 

people just tend to look at certain builds & sites & videos to see whats an "optimal" group comp while at the same time ignoring that these builds/squads often operate at a vastly different skill/coordination lvl. Its one of the main reasons why there's such a big contrast in f.e. dps Weaver vids and dps Weaver squad members

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700+ healing power (cele HB / seraph HB , cele tempest, cele mech with barrier engine, cele ren, plaguedoc scourge, etc) or 0 healing power and a lot of vitality if you play specter since it doesn't even scale much with healing power (see ritualist and carrion specter). Except druid, since if you play DPS druid you're setting yourself up for disappointment so people usually have 1K+ healing power. The best DPS benchmarks in the past with healing power did something like 13K DPS.

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8 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

Nah you definitely dont need that much dmge as a dps. Raids/strikes barely have any dps tests. If the dps in the squad can upkeep 10k dps during most encounters you should already be fine. 

Often higher dps can neglect some boss mechanics or decrease the amount of boss mechanics, but i'd say in general bosses without permadeath mechanics benefit from taking extra healer/hybrid or by adding some surviveability utilities to the dps.  A dps that's alive simply deals alot more dmge then a downed/defeated one. 

 

people just tend to look at certain builds & sites & videos to see whats an "optimal" group comp while at the same time ignoring that these builds/squads often operate at a vastly different skill/coordination lvl. Its one of the main reasons why there's such a big contrast in f.e. dps Weaver vids and dps Weaver squad members

when i say 30k i mean in a golem, most builds go higher than that and boss encounters lower that dmg by a lot, the boss resistances, mecanics, players fails, boons condis etc, usually, if you are lower than 30k on golem (and i mean like 26-27, because 29.5k could be fine) when you get to a boss youll get very low dmg, close to or less than a dps suport.

also its true, pugs and optimization arent the same, you cant ask people to go untamed condi in a pug and get the dmg of sc sites, but not all builds are like that, normal builds are around 36-37 k so asking for 30 on the golem should be feasible taking into acount player special circumstances.

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