October 4 Balance Update Preview

[SloRules.3560]

4 minutes ago, Styopa.2538 said:

Was WVW overwhelmed with thousands of scrappers?  I haven't seen it.  Yes, there are some that still remain in wvw you know, unlike PvE where they've been basically purged in favor of the all-better Mech.

 

Jesus.  Who is sitting there making these changes saying "yep, this is better for BALANCE"?

 

Wait a second...Eureka!  Everyone said they need to revisit turrets so by making scrappers main thing immobile, they're basically now performing like turrets!  Both problems solved.

Every party had scrapper.

[Downstate.4697]

I see ele changes. I cry. The end.

[The Great Al.2546]

Quote

• Final Shielding: This trait no longer grants Arcane Shield when dropping below 50% health. Instead, it grants Arcane Shield after using an elite skill.

this doesn’t make sense, and is totally random. Why would I need an arcane shield when I use my elite? Do I now have to save my elites for strictly when I need an arcane shield? 

[Bookah pls.9352]

I'm gonna be real honest here, for this patch so far it mostly feels like while the people announcing the changes have changed, the people who decide the changes hasn't really.

Still, early days.

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

I'm trying to find something in the notes about boon removal or boon conversion or something to tone down the boons in WvW, but I guess I haven't read that part yet.

[julbot.4395]

Nice changes for Berserker. Spellbreaker is still without a real niche in PvE, and Bladesworn's Gunsaber kit still underperforms.

[rzalexander.8237]

Why would you ruin scrapper like this in PVE? I’m already playing a dead build and now I have to ground target my wells? I’m playing a melee class I don’t need ranges ground target skills it doesn’t make sense.
 

Making this change for WvW only would be fine, but please don’t make this change universal in PVE. Group content is already challenging to get into because we don’t apply Quickness as well as other elite specs (Firebrand). 

[Xenesis.6389]

4 minutes ago, Crazy.6029 said:

I'm trying to find something in the notes about boon removal or boon conversion or something to tone down the boons in WvW, but I guess I haven't read that part yet.

Here you go

Quote

We're planning a larger investigation into the balance between boon applications and boon removal in WvW for a future update, but for now we wanted to address a few outliers on mesmer, namely Phantasmal Disenchanter and Null Field.

• Throw Mine: Reduced number of boons removed from 2 to 1 in WvW only.
• Mine Field: This skill no longer removes boons. Instead, it cripples enemies that it strikes.

• Phantasmal Disenchanter: Reduced number of boons removed from 5 to 2 in WvW only.
• Null Field: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 35 seconds in WvW only.

• Trail of Anguish: This skill can now affect a maximum of 10 enemies.

🤭

Edited September 16, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[cat.8975]

27 minutes ago, GuriGashi.5617 said:

Anet should have the statistics, pretty sure no one in higher league uses Roiling Light, Flash Combo, Heel Crack or Heavens Palm at all unless they are trolling. Willbender doesn‘t even have a trait that interacts with physical skills

Roiling Light is underrated if you ask me. Pretty low cooldown for an evade+stunbreak+blind+daze+leap, and is only really competing with... Contemplation of Purity. Against comps with low condi pressure, it's a solid pick.

Heaven's Palm is a meme in PvP/WvW, I'll give you that, but it's very good in PvE (so not totally unused). Flash Combo and Heel Crack are the stinkers across all gamemodes.

[thaniretouni.4762]

Why nerf Berserker's bloody roar and head butt when you want to make it more viable? I am confused

[Bach From The Brink.2715]

Good changes. Think more people need to recognize this for the insanely massive improvement it is compared to the last balance release where completely irrelevant thing were being addressed and PvE changes were impacting WvW/PvP for absolutely nil reason. Here, things that are actually issues are being addressed and it's so great to see. Balancing takes time and effort to create and implement. Anyone who went in with the expectation that every issue regarding every spec / trait line was going to get fixed and everything was going to be perfect just went in with expectations way too tall. Plenty of things that had previously been ignored, with the 300s traits being a major one, have already gotten changed alone with this patch. 

Some of the upset people here also just don't sound like they play PvP/WvW at all. I mean, there was a dude complaining about the arcane shield being on our elite lmfao. 

Got high hopes for the future. Great work. 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by ImBach.9013

[Griifen.2473]

6 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

16 minutes ago, Jash.3104 said:

Then change something about it in WvW. Don't completely ruin Scrapper as a spec everywhere. Having gyros be stationary is antithetical to how the rest of the spec plays.

It doesn't completely ruin it everywhere else. Other specs can manage with stationairy wells, so can scrapper. Especially in PvE.

Are you touched? 

In what do you live in where spectre wells are used anywhere? 

In what do you live in where chrono wells are used anywhere? 

 

Scrapper was always struggling to be competitive support class, whether healing or offensive boon support, and this is absolutely going to kill it, just like the other 2 stationary well classes that ARE NOT PLAYED BY ANYONE BECAUSE STATIONARY BOOMS ARE kitten. 

[Xenesis.6389]

2 minutes ago, rzalexander.8237 said:

now I have to ground target my wells?

Yeah man those poor necros and chronos have been suffering from this for years too.

[Lazze.9870]

34 minutes ago, TexZero.7910 said:

Scrapper is good at cleansing and providing defensive support sure. But to claim that stealth + cleansing makes them the undisputed best healer is silly.

I didn't claim it was because of cleanse. Easy and forgiving cleanse + stealth AND superspeed however. From moving wells. It's not silly, it's a FACT. Stealth gyro and superspeed from wells that follow you is THE main reason scrapper has remained an undisputed support build for WvW zergs. There is no competition because of those two exact utilities. Nerfing Purity of Purpose and other core engie support utilities only made it slightly less busted, but never changed the main issue at hand. You could remove the condi to boon convert entirely and leave everything else as it is right now (pre-patch), and it wouldn't matter much in terms of giving scrapper some competition.

Undisputed best support. Not undisputed best healer. There is a distinction there, and it is important. Having the best healing output was never important in WvW as long as the healing was good enough. Druid has a ridiculous healing output potential (which they actually buffed ever so slightly with this patch) with pretty good condi cleanse and it is nowhere near the meta discussion. Why? Because it doesn't have reliable superspeed and stealth which the meta is heavily centered around (+ the pet being what it is, but that's a different issue entirely).

Bottom line: you never ran scrapper because of healing and cleansing alone, other supports can match that. It's the current utility packages it has that makes it stand above with pretty much zero competition, and that the heavy hitters mainly come from scrapper itself and not engie's core lines. The most important aspect about core engie in this build is actually just the access to the med kit itself. The rest are just your typical healing traits that aren't that special, plus PoP, which is strong, but not the main reason to run scrapper.

Tempest might be the new go-to support, and that build is a lot easier for other support options to catch up with. Unless people still want the superspeed, then we're still stuck with scrapper. A clunkier, but still functional one.

And sorry, but if this is confusing for anyone, they frankly don't understand the wvw meta.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[thaniretouni.4762]

7 minutes ago, julbot.4395 said:

Nice changes for Berserker. Spellbreaker is still without a real niche in PvE, and Bladesworn's Gunsaber kit still underperforms.

Berserker got some buffs but nerfs too? Like bloody roar dmg or the head butt... I dont like it. Also, spellbreaker changes could be used to WvW too. its sad.

[Bach From The Brink.2715]

37 minutes ago, The Great Al.2546 said:

this doesn’t make sense, and is totally random. Why would I need an arcane shield when I use my elite? Do I now have to save my elites for strictly when I need an arcane shield? 

 

Don't think you or a lot of the other people here PvP / WvW roam but having extra damage absorption on your elite is pretty nice. FA weaver would take that 300s trait occasionally for that extra defense and it's just more accessible now. A portion of them would even straight up take arcane shield (for those who don't play ele, it's actually an option in the utility slot) occasionally for the extra absorption. 

Elites are meant to be used defensively / offensively (obviously). Having that extra shield - that extra full utility - on you when you're trying to disengage or engaging is pretty nice.

Edited September 16, 2022 by ImBach.9013

[Lujan.1865]

Can we address all the ridiculous perma-stealth thiefs in WvW that are literally unkillable, bcs once you get them down they just stealth and shadowstep away? So they just run around and bully you every time their health regenerates?

But i guess WvW roaming doesnt matter, so we dont need to fix this at all, right...

Also, love the usual "accidental" buff to a random mech build. Great job.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Lujan.1865
Added more rant

[Skyroar.2974]

Hey, Anet,

There are some changes that feel like they could affect PvE too (like the changes to profession mechanics), but it isn't clear if they do, or if they're just (radical) functionality splits.

Could you clarify?

Edited September 16, 2022 by Skyroar.2974

[Sleepwalker.1398]

54 minutes ago, Sean.5803 said:

Sad to see mesmer focus pull and Illusion of Life untouched. 

Why? What's wrong with focus pull?

[TexZero.7910]

6 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Cleanse, stealth AND superspeed. From moving wells. It's not silly, it's a FACT. Stealth gyro and superspeed from wells that follow you is THE reason scrapper has remained an undisputed support build for WvW zergs. There is no competition because of those two exact utilities.

Undisputed best support. Not undisputed best healer. There is distinction there, and it is important. Having the best healing output was never important in WvW as long as the healing was good enough. Druid has a ridiculous healing output potential (which they actually buffed ever so slightly with this patch) with pretty good condi cleanse and it is nowhere near the meta discussion. Why? Because it doesn't have reliable superspeed and stealth (+ the pet being what it is, but that's a different issue entirely).

Bottom line: you never ran scrapper because of healing and cleansing alone, other supports can match that. It's the current utility packages it has that makes it stand above with pretty much zero competition. Disagreeing with this frankly just makes it look like you don't understand the wvw meta.

You do know otherclasses are capable of stealth and superspeed right ?

Those classes are also Meta in WvW.

So make up your mind. Is Scapper Meta because of it's "undisputed support" or is it the "best undisputed healer/cleanser" like you originally claimed ?

Cause right now you really seem to want to harp on Scrappers 5th re-invented identity of being a superspeed bot while blaming it's healing output which is core engie related.

Edited September 16, 2022 by TexZero.7910

[wasss.1208]

On 9/14/2022 at 6:22 PM, Double Tap said:

Takedown Round: This trait has been reworked. It now grants increased outgoing strike damage while endurance is not full.

Please reconsider this. Traits like this was all around the game a few years ago, but it leads to an extremely unful gameplay in PvE, where you always had to keep one bar of endurance drained. You always had to interrupt your rotation, to use your defensive ability, to get a passive bonus. Almost every trait like this was removed, unless it was on a spec, that was build around dodging, like Daredevil. It is also anti-synergestic with the built in Vigor, from Optimized Activation, and the increased endurance regeneration of Adrenal Impact.

[Kabuto.2093]

If we are taking away downsides and tradeoffs is it finally time to talk about the elite specs that stop working if they step into a puddle of water or take a nice swim?

[Ragnarox.9601]

SO WHY ARE YOU GIVING WARRIOR DMG TO CC SKILLS? GIVE ALL CLASSES THEIR DMG COMPONENTS TOO. ITS UNJUSTIFIED AND UNFAIR.

[Kaizz.7306]

17 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

It doesn't completely ruin it everywhere else. Other specs can manage with stationairy wells, so can scrapper. Especially in PvE.

The issue is a lot of us remember release scrapper, and how horrible stationary wells were. We're not like scourges that are "balanced" around being mid range mages. It's a melee steampunk paladin spec, with many of the abilities centered around being on the scrapper. It's not going to be impossible, but they changed gyros to wells and made them follow for a reason, and I get this feeling we're just reverting that change, forgetting how it used to be.

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

4 minutes ago, Lujan.1865 said:

Can we address all the ridiculous perma-stealth thiefs in WvW that are literally unkillable, bcs once you get them down they just stealth and shadowstep away? So they just run around and bully you every time their health regenerates?

But i guess WvW roaming doesnt matter, so we dont need to fix this at all, right...

I would be interested to know their philosophy regarding stealth in WvW as well.

Their presentation was a lot of just announcing changing to numbers, organize your thoughts better please and tell me WHY you are making changes.