Nightmare tower issues - risk of dead content

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

You need to be moving with a large group to clear it (unless you go VERY slowly and VERY carefully) due to enemy density. The instancing system does nothing to ensure you enter the tower with a group. You can enter an instance where it's 90% cleared. Doing so leaves with neither the ability to actually do the content in general, nor the time, as when that first group reaches the end it will start the close timer. Also, without the ability to clear all the bosses you can't get a tricolor key, and so entering an instance that isn't at the beginning is a waste of time. This forced you to constantly reload trying to get a good instance if one exists, which it might not.

The tower lacks repeatable achievements and worthwhile loot for time invested to encourage people to run in regularly, which discourages replaying the content. Without a high population of players in the content, though, it will approach unplayability without gathering friends or guilds for organized runs. The existence of a good instance to get in to is not guaranteed with low player numbers under the current setup.
Basically, it has not been adjusted to handle there not being a huge continuous stream of players going through it at all times. It's only been a few days and it's already very hard to get a usable instance and rarely does it show up on LFG. As players finish their story and achievement runs, it's possible the tower population will fall to the point where it may be difficult for people to actually do it. For players new to the game and lacking friends/guilds to call on to help, this instance could become a brick wall in the story.

EDIT: to be clear since people always insist every slightly critical post is about this, this is not a request to make the content easier. It's a request to take steps to ensure the content has sufficient population to be doable. It may need to be on a timer like DS and Marionette for the public instance, and probably needs a change in the first floor entry to hold for a minimum number of players before allowing it to start for public and locking it at certain point when people wouldn't be able to catch up. Those might help with the system issues, thought the incentive to do the content will also need to be addressed separately.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Boogiepop Void.6473

[Silent.6137]

Not debating what you have wrote. Rather, offering a solution to your current situation.

Like any Instanced events (and non-instanced), everything scale to player populations. Try starting your own LFG group but limit it to 10-person team. I'm sure there are many who are just waiting for LFG listings, just like you. I often start LFG listings for metas if there's none listed, and will always get players to join fairly fast.

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

12 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Not debating what you have wrote. Rather, offering a solution to your current situation.

Like any Instanced events (and non-instanced), everything scale to player populations. Try starting your own LFG group but limit it to 10-person team. I'm sure there are many who are just waiting for LFG listings, just like you. I often start LFG listings for metas if there's none listed, and will always get players to join fairly fast.

The public instance at least does NOT scale down (probably since it allows anyone to enter at any time so has to assume maximum population).

[Silent.6137]

6 minutes ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

The public instance at least does NOT scale down (probably since it allows anyone to enter at any time so has to assume maximum population).

They actually do. Absolutely all events scale in terms of numbers and difficulties of mobs. Try playing at really off-peak hours especially on a new map, and you'll see fewer and easier mobs in there when you run through.

You don't see that probably because the instance you're in already has lots of players which are not visible/close to where you are.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Ashantara.8731]

Let them add an infusion, et voilà, people will keep doing it frequently.

They should add one to the Marionette, too, for that matter. 😉

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

2 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

You don't see that probably because the instance you're in already has lots of players which are not visible/close to where you are.

Again that's part of the problem. Instead of getting an new instance people are put into an ongoing one they have no way to participate in. If the players have moved on and the instance is scaled up new entries can't get through the mobs join and do anything. So they have to leave and try again over and over hoping to get a fresh instance. But without coordination in how the instance starts it just happens over and over.  Either the instance needs to wait for enough to join then close or it has to be making new instances. Both require sufficient player interest.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Boogiepop Void.6473

[Linken.6345]

3 minutes ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

Again that's part of the problem. Instead of getting an new instance people are put into an ongoing one they have no way to participate in. If the players have moved on and the instance is scaled up new entries can't get through the mobs join and do anything. So they have to leave and try again over and over hoping to get a fresh instance. But without coordination in how the instance starts it just happens over and over.  Either the instance needs to wait for enough to join then close or it has to be making new instances. Both require sufficient player interest.

Then do a private instance with 10 people?

[ugrakarma.9416]

This content is bizarrely spammy AoE fest.

[Markus.6415]

14 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Let them add an infusion, et voilà, people will keep doing it frequently.

They should add one to the Marionette, too, for that matter. 😉

 

I can't be the only person that hates the fact that cosmetic infusions seem to be the driving factor for played content nowadays and considered "good reward".

[Ashantara.8731]

2 hours ago, Markus.6415 said:

I can't be the only person that hates the fact that cosmetic infusions seem to be the driving factor for played content nowadays and considered "good reward".

I absolutely agree with your sentiment. However, every content becomes "old" fast if you do it daily, so rewards are definitely a driving factor for many -- not necessarily just infusions, and even those not necessarily for their cosmetic value but for their value at the Trading Post. As long as something is lucrative in terms of gold, people will keep coming back for it.

[Markus.6415]

22 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I absolutely agree with your sentiment. However, every content becomes "old" fast if you do it daily, so rewards are definitely a driving factor for many -- not necessarily just infusions, and even those not necessarily for their cosmetic value but for their value at the Trading Post. As long as something is lucrative in terms of gold, people will keep coming back for it.

Not doubting rewards are a driving factor, but i'd definately grind that tower if there'd be another toxic/sylvari styled weapon or armor set to collect. Infusions are just not working with my way of character design.

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

Comment from my guild leaders after we ran a train of it as a test last night:

"Aight, so 2 runs of tower, not immsenely well optimized but about as good as I care to get it, and ~100 green, ~60 blue unids
~2 hours of effort.
I applaud Anet for bringing back this memorable content, but I think this will simply be content to remember rather than to put on our schedule rotations."

The rewards are not sufficient. No one will be running this content. It's already dying. Fix your rewards, and fix the mechanics (we had multiple people not in run one because they showed up 5 min late and couldn't get through the mobs to join the group).

[Warscythes.9307]

2 hours ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

Comment from my guild leaders after we ran a train of it as a test last night:

"Aight, so 2 runs of tower, not immsenely well optimized but about as good as I care to get it, and ~100 green, ~60 blue unids
~2 hours of effort.
I applaud Anet for bringing back this memorable content, but I think this will simply be content to remember rather than to put on our schedule rotations."

The rewards are not sufficient. No one will be running this content. It's already dying. Fix your rewards, and fix the mechanics (we had multiple people not in run one because they showed up 5 min late and couldn't get through the mobs to join the group).

Shouldn't take literally 1 hour per run. I ran with my friends as group of 5. Took 24 minutes and we spent a bit of time wandering around looking for chests and cheevos. Can definitely get down to below 20 if we actually tryharded and brought more meta builds/classes.

 

Do I think the reward can be better? Yes. Is it that bad? Not really no considering you can run it whenever you want.

[Luthan.5236]

The main problem is that it is annoying to move around (for the achievements like finding the letters) - and it is required for the story steps. I don't know if you always need to reach the top ... or if completing events at the bottom (as long as they are available ... then maybe rejoining) ... would be enough. (At least the next story step has it's starting point at the top - where the tower clear is needed. As long as you can't join with some other means ... maybe when filling the bar with events only and then leaving ... it offers another option where you do not have to move to the top?)

[ugrakarma.9416]

Its will become dead, because inst really very clear know when something is hapenning, last time, i guess i got a luck shot, because the "zerg" was in starting area, so i can run with them.

 

the best solution is make it a silverwastes, a untimed event, driven by map: players should collect toxic spores from toxic offshots events on map, once they "fill" some amount, the tower become open.

Edited September 20, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[Solvar.7953]

Since the map resets one the group gets to the end, an improvement would be for the laser AoEs to stop firing and creatures to stop spawning from the area leading up to an event once that event is done.

Having played through it a few times, if the zerg is near the end of one of the levels, I feel I'm better off just hanging around to wait them go into the pod and join them there, as there is a decent chance I might get killed trying to run through all the stuff to otherwise catch up to them.

The related problem I have is that due to the constant damage and everything else, it can be fairly hard to res people that are down once the zerg has moved forward.  There have been many times where I would be willing to res a person, but doing so would get myself killed, so I just run past them.

 

[HotDelirium.7984]

If the enemies didn't rapidly respawn like a frog orgy and we didn't have to zerg race from objective to objective it would be cool content. You can't make your way from one end to the other (if you came in during the boss wing phase) by yourself. You will be decimated and that's a design issue. There should be a set amount of mobs (for the clear bar) and less orbital strikes. It's really chaotic in there and some achievements are hard to do or are vague. The 9 chambers AP actually means take all 9 waypoint pods to the boss.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Usually the best advice is to play content when it is hot. In case it will become dead content, there may be guilds and squads that keep running it from time to time. Also, ArenaNet showed that with a return to ... event they can get players to replay old content for new rewards.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Making the tower instanced was a bad idea, it should've been open-world instead.

 

I wish they wouldn't make these large instances that no one ever plays again after a certain point, the only exception being where its completely unavoidable (e.g, The Battle for Lion's Arch). In Kessex Hills making the Tower of Nightmares open-world would've worked just fine, its a low populated map with plenty of space.

 

But apparently they didn't learn their lesson with Twisted Marionette being a failure, so in a few months we'll just have the same situation again despite many previous complaints..

Edited October 5, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Abraxxus.8971]

There needs to be an instanced scaled down story version of the inside of the Tower for those of us that want to complete the story on multiple characters. 

[Ashantara.8731]

On 9/18/2022 at 6:56 PM, Warscythes.9307 said:

Shouldn't take literally 1 hour per run. I ran with my friends as group of 5. Took 24 minutes and we spent a bit of time wandering around looking for chests and cheevos.

Depends on the randomized boss chamber encounters. Some can take significantly longer than others.