Scrapper Rebalance

[Malus.2184]

This seems to have been the thought process, "Okay, Sneak Gyro is an issue. Instead of dealing with the Sneak Gyro we're just going to make everything so useless that no one will ever play Scrapper in PvP again."

Everythjing that was unique about the Scrapper is now an inferior version of something that another Profession can provide better. Other than the Sneak Gyro what reason is there to even waste a space in a WvW sqwquad for one when Firebrand can do everything that a Scapper can so much better?

Unless the the Quickness of the Firebrand is now also a zone left behind when people move forward, as well as their sources of Stab. The list goes on. Undo this, please, as this will make Scrappers t otally unviable as support because of the Sneak Gyro.

[Kaizz.7306]

I'm not happy with the changes on scrapper, but Firebrands and Scrapper server two different roles in wvw. The gyros going back to being stationary is really my only true issue. I can still pump condi cleanse and do my usual thing, but i now, in a fight, i gotta make sure i'm targeting the right area. The job just got a lot harder. I'm really unhappy about this change. I'm still playing scrapper, but it's just going to be more of a headache when I got people that aren't on tag. We'll see how this goes, but I don't see this being a good change in any way, shape, or form. May be seeing our cleanse tempests a bit more now.

[thaniretouni.4762]

As they said, they still got time to fix big mistakes. Maybe this is one of these mistakes. 🙂

[Malus.2184]

2 minutes ago, thaniretouni.4762 said:

As they said, they still got time to fix big mistakes. Maybe this is one of these mistakes. 🙂

I hope so, because completely removing a key functionality of several things in order to nerf an unrelated thing is the worst possible way to do things. I'm with TeatPot on this. Abilities should never work ciompletely differently in PvE and PvP. This is an example of this since you have none of this ground targeted crap in PvE, you only get it in PvP-environments.

Same with Gyros in PvE providing Quickness and in PvP and WvW granting Fury and Might, a pityful amount of Might as well.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Malus.2184

[UNOwen.7132]

4 minutes ago, thaniretouni.4762 said:

As they said, they still got time to fix big mistakes. Maybe this is one of these mistakes. 🙂

Oh they have the time to fix big mistakes. Do they have the motivation to fix big mistakes? I doubt it. 

[Xenesis.6389]

Quote

Everythjing that was unique about the Scrapper is now an inferior version of something that another Profession can provide better. 

No other classes have felt this way I'm sure. 🙄

 

You still have purity of purpose.

Sneak gyro going stationary isn't going to be a huge problem because most times you use it is before a fight where everyone is standing still. Although I agree going back to stationary aoes when they built combat to be movement based now is taking two steps back.

You still provide a lot of group superspeed.

Not sure why they nerfed the quickness when they made a big deal a couple patches ago to add it to scrapper...

 

 

1 minute ago, Malus.2184 said:

I'm with TeatPot on this. Abilities should never work ciompletely differently in PvE and PvP.

Wow I agree with teapot on something.. yes no abilities or mechanics should be changed to work completely different than it's pve counterparts. That only invites the possibility of a confused mess when you try to change things later, and also forcing players to play two or three different ways when you switch modes, more confusion to deal with.

 

[God.2708]

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

This seems to have been the thought process, "Okay, Sneak Gyro is an issue. Instead of dealing with the Sneak Gyro we're just going to make everything so useless that no one will ever play Scrapper in PvP again."

Everythjing that was unique about the Scrapper is now an inferior version of something that another Profession can provide better. Other than the Sneak Gyro what reason is there to even waste a space in a WvW sqwquad for one when Firebrand can do everything that a Scapper can so much better?

Unless the the Quickness of the Firebrand is now also a zone left behind when people move forward, as well as their sources of Stab. The list goes on. Undo this, please, as this will make Scrappers t otally unviable as support because of the Sneak Gyro.

Scrapper is still the best at giving green numbers, by a long shot.

Firebrand got slapped kinda hard too, just in different ways.

 

 

52 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

You still provide a lot of group superspeed.

Not sure why they nerfed the quickness when they made a big deal a couple patches ago to add it to scrapper...

SS giving is going to take a huge hit given it procs on last hit of wells, combined with the duration nerf they got a while ago.

Edit: nevermind didn't see the SS got moved to first pulse instead.

And quickness in large quantities is just unhealthy IMO, giving might (and fury?) is a much nicer effect in PvP. Quickness should really be relegated to major CDs (Guard shout) or giving self only.

Edited September 16, 2022 by God.2708

[thaniretouni.4762]

52 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Oh they have the time to fix big mistakes. Do they have the motivation to fix big mistakes? I doubt it. 

Maybe next year 😄

[coro.3176]

Scrapper was absolutely busted as a support in WvW. It 100% needs the huge nerf. It's just been so overpowered for so long people have forgotten what WvW used to be like without it.

I like the stationary wells change. It means groups now have to choose between bunkering down in their fields to get the benefits, or moving. They can't just roll around while keeping all their support.

[Xenesis.6389]

1 hour ago, coro.3176 said:

Scrapper was absolutely busted as a support in WvW. It 100% needs the huge nerf. It's just been so overpowered for so long people have forgotten what WvW used to be like without it.

I like the stationary wells change. It means groups now have to choose between bunkering down in their fields to get the benefits, or moving. They can't just roll around while keeping all their support.

Finally positioning has some meaning both ways again. Getting a kick out of all these scrappers crying about having a ranged well, it's like they don't know necro and chrono wells or even druids and eles exist, then again they superspeed over everything it didn't matter.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Kyon.9735]

1 hour ago, coro.3176 said:

Scrapper was absolutely busted as a support in WvW. It 100% needs the huge nerf. It's just been so overpowered for so long people have forgotten what WvW used to be like without it.

I like the stationary wells change. It means groups now have to choose between bunkering down in their fields to get the benefits, or moving. They can't just roll around while keeping all their support.

 

This. What I see is that at the very least we'll see a bit more Tempests and probably Druids depending on how Druid buffs turn out.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

I stopped reading after this point in the notes.

 

Every danged time I get hooked on a spec and start playing it danged near exclusively in WvW, EVERY DANGED TIME it gets nerfed, with seemingly unintelligible reasoning one some of the changes.  EVERY SINGLE DANGED TIME, For 10 years straight now, WHY?

[Rider.6024]

7 minutes ago, HazyDaisy.4107 said:

I stopped reading after this point in the notes.

 

Every danged time I get hooked on a spec and start playing it danged near exclusively in WvW, EVERY DANGED TIME it gets nerfed, with seemingly unintelligible reasoning one some of the changes.  EVERY SINGLE DANGED TIME, For 10 years straight now, WHY?

stop playing cheese that isnt firebrand?

 

/s

[HazyDaisy.4107]

1 minute ago, Rider.6024 said:

stop playing cheese that isnt firebrand?

 

/s

 

End Sarcasm indeed, since the intent is no doubt to get more people to play mech...which is in no way, shape or form fromage.

[Jski.6180]

I think the best thing to happen to wvw is to make pulsing effect not stay with the caster but to be ground target this could be said for any class in the game. It adds in realty counter play to boon balls. Wvw needs to be a game of ground control tactics (we have no real air combat so such an effect of 3d fighting not a thing in the game).

As for the quickness lost that seems a step too far.

[roederich.2716]

With the changes to druid they finally went another step against the class racism in zergs what caused many players to grief on each others if rangers can run in the zerg or not.

with the changes to scrapper they made exactly this step back again.

[Kozumi.5816]

6 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

no one will ever play Scrapper in PvP again."

This is always a good thing.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

Just remember, whatever can be done, can also and probably will also be undone in a year, 3 years or even a few months from now.

 

As many of the changes in this summary, across multiple classes seem to be reverts on changes they made some time ago to those mechanics for one reason or another.  It lacks justification and I expect them to be reverted once more in a year or 3.

[Xenesis.6389]

44 minutes ago, HazyDaisy.4107 said:

Just remember, whatever can be done, can also and probably will also be undone in a year, 3 years or even a few months from now.

Yeah that's the mesmer category. 🤭

[Meridian.9103]

I really hope Anet does not bend to the raging crowd. WvW needs exactly this shake up. Scrappers kit it far too overloaded for zerk play.

[miriforst.1290]

It's like they hired noneHotBuildTest as game lead.

[posthumecaver.6473]

For all the people, who are commenting here about being happy about scrappers being nerfed, lately every squad I was in, commanders were begging people to switch to scrappers (at same level to FBs also), so good luck with it, I rather stay in my DPS class instead of fighting through ground targeted AOEs...which are so fun during skill lag...

To make the things better, most of the people we playing FBs and Scrappers, people joined to the game after Steam release, with WWW ranks between 50-100 while that is the only they can get into squads, they will have such fun, and the squad also

Dear ANet, before making such changes, can you please fix first 10 years old skill lag, thx....

Edited September 17, 2022 by posthumecaver.6473

[RisenHowl.2419]

I'm loving the scrapper doom and gloom, like having to move the mouse cursor before pressing a button is going to kill the class.

 

You only run 2 gyros and spend most of the time in wvw holding down the AA, the fumigate nerf is more painful lol

[Cuks.8241]

Sneak gyro was never really an issue. Yeah its really nice utility but its only an added bonus. Veil for example is arguably better and can be used for stealth on the run which now wont be possible or at least much harder to pull of with sneak gyro.

Scrapper strength is in super speed, cleansing and healing. Yeah they made wells stationary, but they also did this - "Gyroscopic Acceleration: Superspeed is now applied on the first pulse of wells instead of the final pulse". 

I think the nerfs are sensible. With the buffs to tempest those 2 might be closer to competitive picks.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Cuks.8241

[Custodio.6134]

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Sneak gyro was never really an issue. Yeah its really nice utility but its only an added bonus. Veil for example is arguably better and can be used for stealth on the run which now wont be possible or at least much harder to pull of with sneak gyro.

 

sneak gyro heavily depends on the situation. If you weren´t spotted by the enemy yet, it is one of the most impactful engage-tools (alongside portal-bombs) in the game. So in most cases, the gyro-changes don´t affect it at all (the only situation is, when you have an open-field fight where you are already spotted and want to break vision for a short duration. this will become more difficult). It dosen´t make Sneak-Gyro better or worse than veil, since both have different situational uses.

Yeah, healing and cleansing got cut down, which makes sense because Scrapper IS overloaded with utility by design. The nerfs on MDF also sound way harder than they actually are. MDF does scale on healing YOU (!!!) apply to YOURSELF (!!!). This is actually way less than you might think, since most healing-abilities mostly target allies. Namely Medkit 1, 2 and 4 only affects allies, medkit 3 doesn´t do any healing unless blasted, and infusion bomb only applies regen (which is a boon you constantly will overwrite). so the only self-healing you actually apply to trigger MDF are "Bandage self", regeneration and Water-Field blasts. 

the gyro-changes in general will not necessarily nerf scrapper, but instead will increase the skill floor. rather than just braindead pulling purge-gyro when conditions (especially immob and chill) pop up, you will need to think ahead according to the movement your group/zerg will do. However, it also gives the opportunity to get people out of immob way better than before. So far, if you got immobilized, you pretty much instantly fall heavily behind (same goes for chill and cripple to some extent), with the result being you out of range for cleanses very quickly. With the ground-targeted gyros, the scrapper can throw his purge-gyro backwards (if he knows what he´s doing), get you out of immob AND granting you superspeed to catch up. Without this change, you were just screwed. 

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I think the nerfs are sensible. With the buffs to tempest those 2 might be closer to competitive picks.  

in terms of healing and cleansing... maybe. But it doesn´t change the factors that make scrapper superior to tempest. 

Scrappers still have (even though it got nerfed pretty hard in the past) condition conversion, which is (even on a cooldown) more valuable than "just" cleansing. The big difference is the utility scrappers bring along, which tempest doesn´t have access to. 
Those would be superspeed, stealth, stability, projectile-block and damage mitigation, alongside everything else a tempest can provide (healing, condition cleanse, auras etc.). Before Powerful Aura got nerfed (10-target cap reduced to 5) it was valuable to trade-off with a scrapper, since the only negative effect you had was the missing sneak-gyros in every second subgroup (which you could compensate by better utilizing blast-finishers), but you cannot do that anymore due to said nerf. 

So yeah, they get closer to competetive picks, but will still get outperformed by scrappers.