Rev changes (PvP)?

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, SoulBlaze.3059 said:

In terms of pvp, revenant is just not worth playing right now. It is consistently outclassed and kinda a waste of time. I really wish they brought back a reason to pvp with the class in those patch notes, but it still seems they have no clue what to do with the class and instead more or less just make minor changes with it, all while other classes have atleast 1 spec that does immensely more damage or is a better support. Just sad 

And here i am reminding you once again, that Herald is S-Tier.

You being a bad Herald... doesnt make it a bad spec.  We had this talk already 😄

 

Also they fundamentaly change vindicator... you have no clue if it will be strong or bad after the patch... but here you are crying....

Edited September 21, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Buran.3796]

7 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

And here i am reminding you once again, that Herald is S-Tier.

   I don't think that Rev is bad at PvP as SoulBlaze states, but isn't also stellar at the moment, as can be argued:

*  In the last MAT Boyce swapt from Herald to Untamed at semis and in the final, so wasn't a single Rev in the last 3 matches.

*  Naru stated that Herald is stronger at MATs in conformed teams compared to how performs at Ranked, at which the lack of VOIP and communication amongst peers makes it less effective.

* The small increase of Herald popularity at PvP lately is related to the addition of quickness to Herald, which is going to be entirely removed from that game mode in less than two weeks. I doubt it would have a significative presence at the MAT this weekend...

* Vindicator has been essentially nuked out of PvP for more than two months; I don't known if the October 4th patch will change that, but I guess it will be more relevant for WvW roaming than in PvP, since at the later The Alliance legend essentailly lacks heals, whereas in WvW remains functional.

[Sahne.6950]

11 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

In the last MAT Boyce swapt from Herald to Untamed at semis and in the final,

the fact that he used Herald in the games before the final ones shows that it is indeed in a good spot. just saying....

Did you see any Lightningrod eles? Freshair ele?  Any mesmers?  were there any engies?  how many willbenders have you seen?  (i have not seen it... btw 😄)

I have not seen the MAT... but i am more than certain, that he swapped to Untamed because he knew the enemy team and that they were going to play thiefs.... Untamed shreds thiefs.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Buran.3796]

12 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Did you see any Lightningrod eles? Freshair ele?  Any mesmers?  were there any engies?  how many willbenders have you seen?  (i have not seen it... btw 😄)

I have not seen the MAT... but i am more than certain, that he swapped to Untamed because he knew the enemy team and that they were going to play thiefs.... Untamed shreds thiefs.

   Actually there were a good amount of Mesmers in the last MAT, some Catalyst and tons of Tempest (wanting Fresh Air eles being meata at PvP MAT at this point is a bit like demanding the same for hammer Rev, to be honest).

      Willbender started EoD dead at PvP due how clunky was all the selft-pauses, self-roots and after cast animations after every skill implementation for "such a high mobility class". Then they fixed a lot of that stuff, buffed the numbers and voila: 4 months of WB blasting PvP...   Had a couple of nerfs and high end players fastly ditched it for "newly busted specs", but Willbender is still a respectable spec to run in that game mode, even at MATs.

    As I said, I don't think that Rev is bad at PvP at the moment, but has some real problems due ANet chose to kill build variety pre-EoD nerfing everything that could overshadow the new specs, but happens that the new Rev spec was a nightmare to balance (as expected since they spent 0 time testing EoD's PvP), so they nuked it out from the game.

   So now we are waiting some changes which definitely will push out power Herald outside the meta, some buffs to condi Herald which outcome ise hard to predict, and some qol Vindi inprovements which probably won't affect too much to PvP.

   To be honest, MOST of EoD specs are bad at PvP: they have broken things, but oftenly also game breaking mechanics which once are fixed/balanced let them severely lacking. Mechanist, as example, can go from having a strong mech which makes it too powerful at very low effort, then you have to nerf it and becomes crap since has all the eggs in the same basket. Harbinger goes from op nigh unkillable glass canon with too much sustain to trully a glass canon which doesn't endure teamfights in MATs and fades way...   Vindicator goes from infinite re-sustain with random AoE nukes deletes enemies to clippled fighters with no heals and 0 endurance...  I already talked about WB.

   The thing is that EoD brough us a higher pace of balance patches, but if you look at the results albeit the EoD spec dominance remains (outside Tempest) the path seems like a roller coaster. Meanwhile de game mode (PvP) is just dead: is not even about the "health" of the balance, but about the lack of population or new rewards, maps, anything...

[Sahne.6950]

11 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

some buffs to condi Herald which outcome ise hard to predict

as a Tempest main i can tell you that a condi herald is already a tempests worst nightmare. After the changes a condirev will have no problem deleting a tempest.

If you have to power to completly shutdown the meta support, the build will 100% see play. 

I am calling it right now, CHerald will see alot more play after oct.4th.

[vilesoldier.9826]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

as a Tempest main i can tell you that a condi herald is already a tempests worst nightmare. After the changes a condirev will have no problem deleting a tempest.

If you have to power to completly shutdown the meta support, the build will 100% see play. 

I am calling it right now, CHerald will see alot more play after oct.4th.

 

Big doubt.

 

The only relevant changes to Condi Rev are slight increases in damage (torment laterally buffed) and more ammo on Mace 3. All of which address a problem that Condi Revs did not really need solved.

 

The 5 energy shavings to bring all Mallyx utilities down to 30 energy doesn't change the gameplay meaningfully, and the resistance duration increases, while nice, still don't bring it anywhere close to the sustain that made meta-bandwagoners flock to the spec in the first place. (its literally a 1s resistance buff)

 

What this means is that people will likely test the waters and eventually abandon it again when they can't fully ignore an entire category of damage like they used to. Condi Rev already does a lot of damage and it's still barely seeing play. For the people who know how to play it well, these changes are pretty good, but that's like 4 people in both NA and EU.

Everyone else is going to see torment buffs, jump on the class, then insta die because all they can do is camp EtD.

Edited September 23, 2022 by GeneralBM.5781

[Sahne.6950]

31 minutes ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

Big doubt.

 

The only relevant changes to Condi Rev are slight increases in damage (torment laterally buffed) and more ammo on Mace 3. All of which address a problem that Condi Revs did not really need solved.

 

The 5 energy shavings to bring all Mallyx utilities down to 30 energy doesn't change the gameplay meaningfully, and the resistance duration increases, while nice, still don't bring it anywhere close to the sustain that made meta-bandwagoners flock to the spec in the first place. (its literally a 1s resistance buff)

 

What this means is that people will likely test the waters and eventually abandon it again when they can't fully ignore an entire category of damage like they used to. Condi Rev already does a lot of damage and it's still barely seeing play. For the people who know how to play it well, these changes are pretty good, but that's like 4 people in both NA and EU.

Everyone else is going to see torment buffs, jump on the class, then insta die because all they can do is camp EtD.

While i totally agree with everything you say there, and that is probably what will happen, there could also be the situation where those small changes paired with the torment "buff", will lead to alot of people testing it out atleast. The second they notice that it hard shoutdowns tempest some people might stick with it. because a counter to the metasupport.... IS NICE!

 

Them removing specter and buffing virtuoso shifts the meta even more in Tempests favor. Because you remove a hardcounter to tempest and bring a spec to light which tempest counters. As a result, we will see even more tempests after the next patch. Tempest will undoubtably be THE metasupport. (and also metasidenoder, but the people are not ready for that yet 😛 )

And a counter to the meta...... can also be considered meta.    

tldr: Condirev could, maybe, somehow, if the stars align, become meta. Condivindicator could become a thing aswell.

 

HIIIGHLY speculative tho😄

Edited September 23, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Buran.3796]

  I've been using cHerald (Mallyx) in the PvP mini season and it worked well: tanky plenty of cc to mess enemies...  Patch should make it fairly strong, maybe flavour of the month untill people moan about "too opressive" and then nerfed again. The think I like is that works also well in WvW and OW PvE: spikes of up to 35 torment stacks, 10 to 25 stacks of might (will be easier to top with the patch changes, albeit quickness will be lost in PvP). 

[captrowdy.9561]

I’ve been playing herald instead of renagade lately. I deleted 3 people at once. Not bad. A bit harder to play then some spec but that’s what makes it fun