Balance patch preview for Engineers

[Bishop.5938]

With grenade buffs. 

 

Is that with every spec or only when running hollosmith?

[Ferus.3165]

10 hours ago, santenal.1054 said:

That is what I hope it does (difficult to imagine)

Things I'm wondering about:

Would that make heal skills instant ?

Maybe they will remove the stun breaker part?

Maybe lesser utility goggles will inherit the new condi cleans of Utility goggles ?

It will cleanse one condi yes. And you are dreaming if you think heal skills would be instant or that the stunbreak part of the skill won't be lost.

Lesser utility goggles main reason was the additional stunbreak and not the 2 seconds of resistance (even if it is 3 now and one condi cleanse lol).

In pve noone takes that skill anyway and in wvw and pvp the stunbreak part was what made the skill ok. It just got randomly deleted from existance.

[santenal.1054]

17 minutes ago, Ferus.3165 said:

It will cleanse one condi yes. And you are dreaming if you think heal skills would be instant or that the stunbreak part of the skill won't be lost.

Lesser utility goggles main reason was the additional stunbreak and not the 2 seconds of resistance (even if it is 3 now and one condi cleanse lol).

In pve noone takes that skill anyway and in wvw and pvp the stunbreak part was what made the skill ok. It just got randomly deleted from existance.

 Guardian has a trait called "Indomitable Courage" that turns non instant cast skills into stun breakers, maybe it will work like that.

[fishfilet.5107]

Engineer is my absolute favorite class. Discovering this class really made GW2 10x better for me (still a good game though without Engi). I mostly play PvP and roam in WvW. Some thoughts on this balance patch:

 

Positive things first:

1.  In general the changes in Tools traitline are really good. The condi cleanse makes it a viable option for some gadgeteer build and brings in some alternatives to elixirs and alchemy.
2. Shield changes are really good. The philosophy of removing cooldown reducing for weapon skills in traits is in my opinion the right direction.
3. Buffing Grenades is okay. This will bring also back some damage for F2P players on core engi (if that is even relevant).
4. Same with Enhanced Capacity Storage. Holo is currently still viable in PvP but this change will move it away from the edge of falling out of viability.
5. Buffing Coolant Blast and reworking Cauterize is good. This could be now a viable option instead of healing turret. Lets see how relevant the condi cleanse is, as Holo often lacks condi cleanse. 
6. Buffing Photon Wall is good, it will be something for the S-D-build. Maybe bring in some additional Exceed skill? Bring back Hard Light Arena? Or Spectrum Shield?

Now some things which I think are good, but not good enough:

1. QUESTION: if lesser utility goggles trigger AFTER using a heal skill, are you ever able to use it for stunbreak? Isn't it weird to have a passive stunbreak on something you cannot use when stunned? Somehow useless then, or am I wrong here?
2. I still think elixirs outperform every gadget. Gadgeteer builds and Gadget skills will still be a niche thing, if you want to switch things up and are bored of elixirs. Gadgeteers will still be hard to play with less reward then every elixir build. I think it would be worth to look at some Gadgets again and buffing them (maybe an evade frame on rocket boots with higher cooldown?)
3. Kinetic Accelerators: I think it is good to remove the quickness regarding PvP as it destroys some pretty annoying meme builds, with which new players got farmed in lower PvP. It is always good to have an eye on that as we need new players in PvP. But where is the spot for Scrapper now in PvP? Some tanky do-nothing build? Some weird utility-teamfight build? I don't see any place for Scrapper in PvP now. Maybe the change is a good thing for WvW zerging, because it was to oppressive. Lets see how this turns out.
4. Please have a look at pistols in the future. They are pretty clunky to use. A rework could bring up some potential for a condi build besides Mechanist (maybe a Core build?)

And now the BIG bad thing:

1. The change to gyros totally destroys Scrapper for me. It kills nearly every uniqueness of that class. Gyros currently are perfect in usability, because it is possible to keep allies and enemies in the radius of their effects. It needs some skill to position yourself right but it is also not too hard to use Gyros effectively. With the change, they become completely nonsense. Gyros have a strong effect over time, but a weak for the moment. So every enemy or ally, who does not stand in the gyro field, is not really effected by any means. And enemies as well as allies never stand long in one field. As an ground targeted AOE, Gyros cannot compete with other AOEs from other classes. The whole selling point is their mobility. I understand Gyros have to be nerved in WvW, but why not just turning the numbers ridiculously low instead of destroying a whole mechanic? 

[samsar.9152]

Changes to power mechanist are NOT welcomed. I mean... It needs to stay as easy to play good dps in instanced group content and fractals. Taking away AAR and ferocity bonus the trait gives to mech just hits mechanist too hard. I really hope they don't ruin my most loved engineer specialization. 

[angrax.1372]

1 hour ago, samsar.9152 said:

Changes to power mechanist are NOT welcomed. I mean... It needs to stay as easy to play good dps in instanced group content and fractals. Taking away AAR and ferocity bonus the trait gives to mech just hits mechanist too hard. I really hope they don't ruin my most loved engineer specialization. 

I was torn between running Alac support power Mech vs pure power dps mech. Even with the significant drop in dps, the alac support build could be played as a single build for all pve content, including solo play.  If this change goes in, I have no desire to play pure power now.

Edited September 18, 2022 by angrax.1372

[Flow.2947]

Engi got nerved with its cleanse capabilities that is all.

 

I don't think engi will get pushed out of meta or anything.  Wells are still very strong maybe even more potent now. In fact to be able to cleanse ppl who are falling behind and give them super speed to catch up is very strong. Same goes with bulwark gyro. Defensive field we will see if  it is just on your location or you are able to put it in range as well. The flexibility is higher but you wouldn't get 100% value out of gyros. No omega nerv to me 🙂

 

Sneak gyro is a sligh nerv but you are able to use it like a vail and it is still a smoke field you still want to blast it and get max value out of it. You can even cover downed allies now, without getting into danger yourself.

 

The dps option is also extremely strong now shred gyro on 900 range we will see about the radius but sill.

 

 

 

[soul.9651]

3 hours ago, samsar.9152 said:

Changes to power mechanist are NOT welcomed. I mean... It needs to stay as easy to play good dps in instanced group content and fractals. Taking away AAR and ferocity bonus the trait gives to mech just hits mechanist too hard. I really hope they don't ruin my most loved engineer specialization. 

Oh this is only just a beggining dont worrie, there will be even more nerfs in the folowing balance patch after this one goes live

[MrForz.1953]

3 hours ago, samsar.9152 said:

Changes to power mechanist are NOT welcomed. I mean... It needs to stay as easy to play good dps in instanced group content and fractals. Taking away AAR and ferocity bonus the trait gives to mech just hits mechanist too hard. I really hope they don't ruin my most loved engineer specialization. 

Don't worry, it'll remain decent. You're being a little overdramatic.

[Gamhuin.6914]

This is a very bad, playstyle changing, alteration to the class.  Especially to a mobile class, in which some of their attacks with the signature weapon for the build causes them to leap immediately out of any stationary wells.

This may prove jarring enough a change that I would choose to set aside my engineer, the only character I play, and leave the game.

[Coolster.2536]

Removing AAR from the mech makes me sad. It reminded me of the old Siege Rounds trait with the double Orbital Strike. Makes sense why they’re doing it, but it makes me sad nonetheless.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted 😞

[shion.2084]

1 hour ago, Flow.2947 said:

Engi got nerved with its cleanse capabilities that is all.

 

I don't think engi will get pushed out of meta or anything.  Wells are still very strong maybe even more potent now. In fact to be able to cleanse ppl who are falling behind and give them super speed to catch up is very strong. Same goes with bulwark gyro. Defensive field we will see if  it is just on your location or you are able to put it in range as well. The flexibility is higher but you wouldn't get 100% value out of gyros. No omega nerv to me 🙂

 

Sneak gyro is a sligh nerv but you are able to use it like a vail and it is still a smoke field you still want to blast it and get max value out of it. You can even cover downed allies now, without getting into danger yourself.

 

The dps option is also extremely strong now shred gyro on 900 range we will see about the radius but sill.

 

 

 

 

no scrappers got a huge nerf by taking quickness from kinetic accelerator in pvp.  That was the source of its ability to do competitive damage.  It use to trigger on the gyro and the health skill and its tool belt, as well as elix u’s tool belt.  The scrapper will be relegated to bunker builds as a result

Edited September 18, 2022 by shion.2084

[santenal.1054]

The way "balance devs" purposely destroy (not tweak for the beterment of balance) entire specs, I find quite disrespectfull . Too many people have already quit this game because of it. 

On the 4th of october my build (s) will also become virtually immortal to condition builds, because the "balance devs" don't think their decisions through.

Edited September 18, 2022 by santenal.1054

[SleepyBat.9034]

8 minutes ago, santenal.1054 said:

On the 4th of october my build will also become virtually immortal to condition builds, because "balance devs" don't think their decisions through.

That's nothing new, there are lots of builds that become immortal to condition builds when you run Anti-Toxin Rune.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

18 minutes ago, santenal.1054 said:

The way "balance devs" purposely destroy (not tweak for the beterment of balance) entire specs, I find quite disrespectfull . Too many people have already quit this game because of it. 

On the 4th of october my build will also become virtually immortal to condition builds, because the "balance devs" don't think their decisions through.

One of the big reason, I quit buying build template. Once your class is deleted, all the build and equipment template is wasted.

[santenal.1054]

25 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

That's nothing new, there are lots of builds that become immortal to condition builds when you run Anti-Toxin Rune.

A few years ago they removed cleanses that were not a problem (they decided to delete random condi cleanses for the sake of balance or something ) (I remember super elixir cleansing 2 condies, healing mist cleansing 1 condi and even a mortar skill cleansing a condi) Classes should get a proper baseline amount of cleanses. Disruptive runes like antitoxin and rune of the speed shouldn't exist imo. (not gonna argue over it, it's just my opinion)

Edited September 18, 2022 by santenal.1054

[Nephalem.8921]

4 hours ago, Coolster.2536 said:

Removing AAR from the mech makes me sad. It reminded me of the old Siege Rounds trait with the double Orbital Strike. Makes sense why they’re doing it, but it makes me sad nonetheless.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted 😞

It was not fun at all seeing rifle mechs everywhere killing everything. Doing top dps while being semi afk. It will still do 34k+ dps which is still too high considering holo being not much higher than that.

Core engi might become the strongest power engi build in pve which is kinda funny.

Quickness scrapper will feel awful to play with these changes. Constantly having to move the mouse between allies and target because of grenade. stealth gyro becoming very clunky in fractals and open world. Quick scrapper never wants to be away from the group because its a melee build. You would never let it do mechanics. You would send ranged builds or a healer instead so that argument of helping pve scrapper is dumb.

It might help heal scrapper but that is a dead build nobody plays in raids or strikes. There were better ways of nerfing scrapper in that dead gamemode which would not destroy the dps version which is the actual theme anyways. Blast gyro will be a super delayed stun. Might aswell become unblockable. Wont hit anyone outside of static pve situations anyways.

Those skills will be extremely bad in raids too. You have to cast them on top of the group for quickness so you cant even cast them in the moving direction of the boss. They will miss a lot of hits because of this.

This feels like the scourge shade change all over again. Destroying gameplay for wvw and pvp. This time only for wvw. They could have just nerfed the cleanse or superspeed duration too or made stealth gyro visible for enemies again.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[Coolster.2536]

5 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

It was not fun at all seeing rifle mechs everywhere killing everything. Doing top dps while being semi afk. It will still do 34k+ dps which is still too high considering holo being not much higher than that.

I didn't say it wouldn't be fine. 34k is perfectly fine for pMech. I am just lamenting the loss of double Orbital Strike (again), which I think the spectacle is very fun to see.

[santenal.1054]

Another thing I want to mention is that the new "Lesser Utility Goggles" (verry good trait) only benefit builds with  off-hand shield and hammer builds because builds with more offensive mainhand weapon sets relly too much on power wrench (for the 33% cooldown reduction on their Gear Shield block). The trait is really good, just the position is bad. Change "Gear Shield" cooldown to 16 sec and nerf "power wrench" to 20% cooldown reduction."

 

(speaking of WVW roaming builds and it's only my opinion)

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by santenal.1054

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

On 9/16/2022 at 3:32 PM, Bomboed.5697 said:

Quick summary:

1. Scrapper is probably ruined
2. Turrets are still useless
3. Most of Gadgets are still useless
4. Not a single change for 

"Most of Gadgets are still useless". Lol okay dude. Gadgeteer + Gadgets are going to be amazing now with the insane tools traitline buff. 

[Calen.8945]

2 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

"Most of Gadgets are still useless". Lol okay dude. Gadgeteer + Gadgets are going to be amazing now with the insane tools traitline buff. 

The fact that you still need Gadgeteer to make them work is what makes them useless.

[Random Wax Orc.7695]

Stationary Wells are a deal breaker.  This eliminates Scrapper as an option for way too many players.  In what world is it acceptable to destroy the core mechanic of an elite instead of actually doing the work to power balance.  "Camp in a tiny Well to get your superspeed that lasts a tiny fraction of the Well duration"  "Camp in a tiny Well to get your healing"  "Camp in a tiny Well to get your stealth, which will be mostly wasted by camping in a tiny Well"  This both limits Scrapper game play and raises the skill requirements for playing Scrapper above and beyond the ability of a huge chunk of the player base.  Stationary Wells are a deal breaker.

I gave up on WvW long ago, and was never interested in PvP.  Now, the only class I had a taste for is being destroyed in PvE.  Years of getting all my engineer equipment goes down the drain as well.

[anbujackson.9564]

On 9/18/2022 at 10:33 PM, Nephalem.8921 said:

 

Core engi might become the strongest power engi build in pve which is kinda funny.

 

You know, I think that this gets way less attention than it should. 

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

7 hours ago, Calen.8945 said:

The fact that you still need Gadgeteer to make them work is what makes them useless.

A lot of sklls need CDR traits to function properly mate. Elixir spam needs HGH as well. Elixer heal is kinda trash without it and elixir S is a 60s CD without it. 

DH and ranger trap reduction, ranger survival skills spam with reduction, Vigorous Shouts on warrior, just to name just a few more examples. This is nothing new. 

[Kontrolle.3514]

As Engineer main since beta it might be time to finally leave this game. 

For the last jears i was already playing just a couple hours a week. So it isnt much of a difference. 

I used to play games to have fun, not to be angry and sad in every patch.