Preview & opinions of October 4th PvP/WvW balance patch

[the krytan assassin.9235]

Elementalist

The last set of catalyst enhancements in PvP pushed it a bit over the top. With other top performers like specter, bladesworn, and herald coming down in this update, we wanted to include a few smaller adjustments to catalyst, and we've shaved down a few of its more potent defensive tools.

 

"Eye of the Storm!" also gets a slight cooldown shave in WvW as part of a tuning pass on existing group stun breaks.

Earth's Embrace: This trait has been reworked. It now grants barrier when attuning to earth.

Final Shielding: This trait no longer grants Arcane Shield when dropping below 50% health. Instead, it grants Arcane Shield after using an elite skill.

 

Tempest

Gale Song: This trait has been reworked. It now grants protection to nearby allies after using a healing skill.

"Eye of the Storm!": Reduced cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in WvW only.

 

Catalyst

Fortified Earth: Reduced base barrier from 3,000 to 2,520 in PvP only. Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only.

Rocky Loop: Reduced damage reduction from 10% to 7% in PvP only.

Staunch Auras: Reduced stability duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only

Edited September 16, 2022 by the krytan assassin.9235

[the krytan assassin.9235]

What are your opinions about the preview of the WvW/PvP balance patch? I've got kinda mixed feelings myself. The changes for PvP seems pretty fair to me.

I definitely hoped for a lillbit extra changes on WvW though. It kinda feels like all balance changes are pretty much negligible. Also none of the long lasting issues seem to have been addressed. 

That being said i can definitely see aurashare temp  become more relevant due to the scrapper nerfs. Unfortunately can't see any usage for an ele dps/brawler build.

[Sunshine.5014]

Traits triggers on Elite skills!

Elite skills on 180 seconds cooldown.

[Erick Alastor.3917]

I'm a bit confused, we lacked stability, we finally got two sources with the previous patch with EoTS and gale.
Both with a humble 1 stack application.
Now we get stripped of one of the two in change of extra prot we can already fart? 
I hope this is to prepare for future revamps, because if not, just why 😐

[Bast.7253]

I'm still not understanding this arcane shield change. The only thing I can see it working with, reasonably, is catalyst's elite. In which it could be quite strong if used during a burst window. Say fire attunement dagger/dagger - 4, 3, 5. Elite skill. Arcane shield. 4, 3, 5. It's good burst but uh... 

Rebound? The skill that just received aegis with a trait. The skill that prevents fatal damage from killing you, instead heals you, is now potentially proccing 3 blocks to prevent the core functionality of the skill?

What else is there? Elite elementals? Okay... Tornado... cool but a long cooldown. 

Weaver elite I guess synergizes.. well enough.. but I still want to point out that weaver has to cycle through 4 attunements within a set time limit, then be within range and use the gravity well portion of the skill... while harbingers get a plantable long lasting gravity well as a weapon skill in shroud. 

Also, yes, catalyst did a ton of damage in pvp and was quite strong - but I hardly think it will come close to soulbeast's burst potential or the blight that was grenade holo. 

Just noticed they added alacrity, not aegis. But I could have swore I read somewhere they added aegis? Or were going to?

Edited September 18, 2022 by Bast.7253

[Downstate.4697]

With bladesworn out and spectre easier to kill catalyst should come out on top for side noding. 

I think berserker has potential as the new meta side noder.

I think druid will still be bad, but soulbeast will be played over untamed.

Tempest will be in a stronger position and may see more play in ATs

[Downstate.4697]

6 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

I'm still not understanding this arcane shield change. The only thing I can see it working with, reasonably, is catalyst's elite. In which it could be quite strong if used during a burst window. Say fire attunement dagger/dagger - 4, 3, 5. Elite skill. Arcane shield. 4, 3, 5. It's good burst but uh... 

Rebound? The skill that just received aegis with a trait. The skill that prevents fatal damage from killing you, instead heals you, is now potentially proccing 3 blocks to prevent the core functionality of the skill?

What else is there? Elite elementals? Okay... Tornado... cool but a long cooldown. 

Weaver elite I guess synergizes.. well enough.. but I still want to point out that weaver has to cycle through 4 attunements within a set time limit, then be within range and use the gravity well portion of the skill... while harbingers get a plantable long lasting gravity well as a weapon skill in shroud. 

Also, yes, catalyst did a ton of damage in pvp and was quite strong - but I hardly think it will come close to soulbeast's burst potential or the blight that was grenade holo. 

I want to point out if there is no cooldown it would proc on summoned elite elemental skills that are 15s

[Bast.7253]

2 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

I want to point out if there is no cooldown it would proc on summoned elite elemental skills that are 15s

The elite elemental is 40 second cooldown though. Not the little ones.

[Downstate.4697]

1 minute ago, Bast.7253 said:

The elite elemental is 40 second cooldown though. Not the little ones.

The skills the elites do are 15s

[Bast.7253]

Also - let's compare lightning flash - 

900 range, does a little damage, not a stun break. 

Thief - shadowstep - 1200 range right?, can also return so.. what 2 stunbreaks technically? And removes conditions?

Mesmer - just a 1200 range teleport but a stunbreak. 

Mechanist - 1200 range stun break that copies boons to the pet AND cleanses conditions. Umm.. okay?

[Bast.7253]

1 minute ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

The skills the elites do are 15s

Oh, you're saying on activating the elemental's ability is when it would proc? Is that how activating "on elite" procs currently work for runes for this? Or is it just on initial summon of the elemental? If it's on that elemental's skill activation it could come in handy I guess.

[Downstate.4697]

Just now, Bast.7253 said:

Oh, you're saying on activating the elemental's ability is when it would proc? Is that how activating "on elite" procs currently work for runes for this? Or is it just on initial summon of the elemental? If it's on that elemental's skill activation it could come in handy I guess.

Yeah ive used runes that proc on elite skill use and those skills activated it so I assume it to be the same. Could make an interesting kamikaze ele with fire elemental lol

[Jski.6180]

It seems ok for what they changed but they did not realty change a lot. I am looking forwarded to seeing the barrier on the earth swap (maybe we can get it to trigger on overload as well). I can see weaver getting some play with the earth swap for sure.

The shield on elite skill can be fun as well if the cd is no too long you can get nado on a very low cd with traits and alacrity.

The on heal protection is a bit odd its something i guess its kind of pointless for tempest to have support protection when its protection trait only effects the tempest not other players.

I am a bit shocked tempest alacrity spam did not get hit at all.

I am also shocked that weaver did not get an dps buff (though simply putting burn on fire ball and lava faunt would of did that for wvw).

[crosknight.3041]

not really a pvp/wvw player but a lot of these are pretty meh

i def loooooooved the part about them revising elite spec trade offs while completely ignoring some of the elephants in the room /s
(like healing auras vs alac at end of overload trait for tempest. also no addressing how alac at end of overload sucks completely)

[Stallic.2397]

I knew that Staunch auras was gonna inevitably get nerfed so removing only a second duration is not too bad. But honestly, what's the point of stab if its only 2 sec? You can barely squeeze in a stomp for that. Plus, most aura activations require rotation use so that's already a drawback

 

I guess I'm hoping that's the last nerf to the trait. Cause stab and quickness are literally the only two things catalyst has going for it. If those are nerfed, everyone is gonna return back to either tempest or weaver

[the krytan assassin.9235]

The flavor for the ele changes just seem so off to me. All the balance changes seem pretty random to me. First of all, why is eye of the storm and aftershock not getting the same functions as their PvE counterpart?

Why is earths embrace another earth trait that only gives a personal buff? The earth traitline severely lacks any group support in WvW, making it practically useless. 

Final shielding doesn't make any sense at all. Why provide it after a elite skill? Its so random (and even works counterproductive with rebound). 

Gale song lacks flavor aswell. What does a Gale song have to do with an healing skill, and what has protection to do with a Gale wind? Besides that its just another Prot buff which Tempest doesn't really need atm. 

 

[Guybrush.4762]

Earth embrace - Most builds who take the Earth trait line either really want Bleed duration from Serrated stone or really want the Protection on aura from Elemental shielding. I'd say the best use for this trait would be for an Openworld condi weaver and even then the amount of barrier would need to be pretty insane to counteract the loss of Protection.
Final Shielding - This change feels weird. If it procs on Glyph of elemental flip skill then it may be broken, if it does not then it is severely underwhelming. I like that we are addressing the 300 cooldown PvP/WvW traits, i really do, but this specific design does not feel right.

Gale Song - This trait would probably see play for Solo Openworld Condi Tempest who often took Unstable conduit+Elemental shielding for Protection uptime. And now they may take Gale song+Serrated stone instead to squeeze a bit more dps. Unfortunately I fail to see any other situation where you would want to take this trait. The Auras from Elemental conduit is just too good in PvP and WvW to justify the trade off and Protection is already covered by other preferred means in instanced PvE. For instanced PvE specifically, it feels bad to loose a very valuable source of Stability as collateral damage ; Heal Alac tempest was finally doing ok.
"Eye of the storm!" - Sure, why not. It makes sure the skill is ready when the commander call for superspeed and that does not hurt.

Catalyst in PvP - I haven't plaid catalyst sidenoder nearly enough to form a solid opinion on the matter ; I am more of a WvW boy. I'd say the nerfs seems reasonable enough from afar.

Overall - I would have loved to see more changes especially toward WvW and specifically about Staff weaver. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a fairly viable, very underestimated build, but it is not there yet. Sustained damage is incredible, CC is good, spike damage and general utility is lacking. Not every builds needs to be meta but I think it does need a little push so commanders finally realize that it is good enough.

About Heal tempest, I would have advocated to copy the stability of "Eye of the storm!" from PvP to WvW in order to better compare to Scrapper but I guess the big Scrapper nerf was another way to make room... a more nuclear one. (I feel bad for my Scrapper friends, I hope the spec is still ok 😅)

Another thing that I would have love being addressed is the Evasive Arcana bug. Long story short dodging in fire no longer cast Flame burst since the August 23rd patch. For PvE it is like whatever but for PvP and WvW this trait does matter for your typical Fire weaver.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Guybrush.4762

[Markus.6415]

10 hours ago, Erick Alastor.3917 said:

I'm a bit confused, we lacked stability, we finally got two sources with the previous patch with EoTS and gale.
Both with a humble 1 stack application.
Now we get stripped of one of the two in change of extra prot we can already fart? 
I hope this is to prepare for future revamps, because if not, just why 😐

Only EoTS applies stability. Gale song is just a stunbreak that gives superspeed, so your abilities will still be interrupted.

Edit: I had to actually check ingame. In WvW and PvP there is 0 stability on Gale song and 0 stability on EoTS.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Markus.6415

[Avatara.1042]

Anet really hate ele in WvW.  Catalyst is also still horrendous to play, and completely different between WvW and PvE.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

The nerf to gale-song is pretty bad. Despite the 300 ICD in pvp/wvw, an instant breakstun for the group is huge mechanic for all modes.
Protection on Healing Skill ... why not superspeed instead ?

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Great changes! They'll give Elementalists more play styles for sure! Especially Craptalyst, it will now flow smoothly like flushed water in toilet. /s
Lmao, back to chest hunting in GI.

[pallas.8150]

There were definitely different professions that could have used a firm hand in PvP/ WvW before Catalyst - that's kinda my thought on it. I play a Weaver usually and can drop most Catalyst players fairly fast... and I consider myself not a GREAT PvP'er but just a decent PvP'er.

[Dark.5674]

3 hours ago, pallas.8150 said:

There were definitely different professions that could have used a firm hand in PvP/ WvW before Catalyst - that's kinda my thought on it. I play a Weaver usually and can drop most Catalyst players fairly fast... and I consider myself not a GREAT PvP'er but just a decent PvP'er.

Agree, playing a fire weaver, I always feel confident going against a catalyst when sidenoding. But to be fair, I've definitely gotten decisively beaten by them 1v1 too, so it's hard to spot any balance issues. It seems to come down to player skill and I see no clear reason to nerf it. It's not like weaver is currently a dominating duelist spec, yet it can still compete just fine with cata. But as an ele/weaver main, I m ight be of course missing something that occurs in entirely different matchups.

[kurosy.1384]

On 9/17/2022 at 3:38 PM, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Protection on Healing Skill ... why not superspeed instead ?

Party superspeed on healing skill would be so nice! I'm so deluded by aftershock and eye of the storm not being changed in wvw... With that and scrapper gyros reverted, prepare not to have any change of scenario with tempest in wvw.

[zitounae.4803]

its not an opinion but more like that usual fact, they despite ele and ignore it and those who play it, at best?