October 4th Balance Patch Preview - Warrior Only Notes

[JTGuevara.9018]

...(blinks in confusion and checks glasses)...

My eyes are either playing tricks on me or these truly are some decent changes. I have to say...I'm impressed. This isn't just mere tinkering and scraps, this is reworking of functionalities across the board.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Pasting this here because the official thread is a zoo...

 

RE: The Warrior Changes:

 

So. Much. Good. Stuff!  I am very excited for the changes to Berserker!  Rupturing Smash looks amazing, and the added ammo to Blazebreaker will actually be a significant boost to condizerker as it provides another convenient opportunity to detonate fire auras from King of Fires. I am also thrilled to see Berserker's Power and Adrenal Healing trigger on burst use rather than on burst hit; that will massively improve their usefulness.  And Defense is actually good!!! Thank you so much for this!  Can't wait to try it out!

 

I did want to offer a few (hopefully) constructive bits of feedback:

 

Berserk Mode:

Now that it no longer counts as a Burst skill, will entering it still trigger 3 stacks of Berserker's Power and/or Adrenal Healing?  It absolutely should!

 

Resilient Dodge:

I assume that, if you are immobilized, you will not be able to dodge and therefore will be unable to gain the resistance--is that correct?  If so, I suggest that trait include either a) dodging removes immobilize, or b) the resistance is applied immediately when trying to dodge, so that you can use it to escape immobilization.  Don't get me wrong; the trait is very strong as it is, but if it can deal with immobilize effectively, it would be a reasonable alternative to Warrior's Sprint.  This would make Discipline less mandatory and would promote better build diversity.

 

Cleansing Ire:

Not having this proc off of burst use is a missed opportunity.  I understand not wanting Warrior to be able to cleanse infinitely, but requiring Warrior to land the burst (many of which are slow/highly telegraphed and need to be done in melee range) means the benefit from this trait is highly inconsistent.    Here's a compromise idea:

 

Cleansing Ire:

gain adrenaline when hit

Cleanse one condition when using a burst skill

Gain Resolution (2s) per bar of adrenaline spent

 

This way you get a little bit of extra cleansing combined with an anti-condi boon.  It also synergizes with Hardened Armor.

 

Stalwart Strength:

Ehh...I mean, it's worth a try, I guess.  The problem is that "when you disable a foe" mechanics are highly unreliable ('cause enemies dodge/block/blind/etc).  Moreover, you really need stability to be applied in an on-demand manner (like Brave Stride) rather than serendipitously for it to be truly useful.  Further, the damage mod when you have stability won't add up to much since stability is (appropriately) a relatively rare and short-lived boon.  Contrast that with something like Guardian's Retribution trait which gives them +10% dmg with resolution--a boon of which they can have near 100% uptime with certain builds.

 

My suggestion:

Stalwart Strength:

Gain +180 toughness

Gain Might (10s) when you are hit (1s CD)

 

This gives you a nice blend of defense and offense.  There is also synergy with Might Makes Right.  And the damage gained from might is limited both by the CD of the trait and the might cap--unlike the uncapped damage from stacking multiple damage modifiers.

 

"To The Limit!":

The extra endurance is welcome but won't be a big change here.  What the skill really needs is a lower CD.  In PvE, it is a massive heal on a 30s CD; in PvP/WvW, it heals for about the same as Mending but has a 50% longer CD.  Please consider lowering the CD to 20s to be in line with mending (or returning the heal magnitude to be commensurate with a 30s CD).

 

Wild Blow:

The changes to this skill are good, but the long cast time and melee range make it a hard sell over Bull's Charge.  Giving it a bit more range (240-300?) would be good.

 

Sundering Leap:

Similar to Wild Blow, the changes are very welcome but probably don't make it worth taking over Bull's Charge.  I propose increasing the range to 900 and making it immobilize targets (2s) instead of cripple.  These changes, combined with the fact that it does damage and has a lower CD, would make it a strong alternative to BC.

Shattering Blow:
Not a good skill.  Some suggestions:  Change the block to 3/4s evade.  Make the explosion/bleed hit targets in a 360 degree, 360 radius.  

 

Bladesworn:

The nerfs are well-deserved.  Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately?), I think removing the bloated shout heal will expose the underlying design flaws of the spec.  Here are a few glaring ones:

 

a) BS doesn't have much in the way of defense.  It relied in healing through everything rather than blocking/negating incoming dmg.  Please consider adding evade frames on Cyclone Trigger (or another Gunsaber skill) to compensate

 

b) BS depended on abusing the short-CD bug on DT to spam Boost for mobility.  It will struggle now that this has been taken away.  Please consider lowering the base CD on DT and/or increasing the range of Break Step to compensate.

 

c) Since it only has one burst--which requires it to stand still for 2.5s for a full charge-- BS struggles to gain/maintain max stacks of Berserker's Power and Adrenal Healing.  This is a big drawback for the spec since it is being forced away from shoutspam. Please consider reducing the CD on DT and/or re-evaluating how DT interacts with traits (maybe 0-2 charges = Tier 1 burst; 3-5 charges = T2; 6+ charges = T3).

All in all, though, this is an incredible gift to Warrior.  Thank you so much for your work on this!

Edited September 17, 2022 by CalmTheStorm.2364
formatting

[JTGuevara.9018]

1 hour ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Bladesworn:

The nerfs are well-deserved.  Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately?), I think removing the bloated shout heal will expose the underlying design flaws of the spec.  Here are a few glaring ones:

 

a) BS doesn't have much in the way of defense.  It relied in healing through everything rather than blocking/negating incoming dmg.  Please consider adding evade frames on Cyclone Trigger (or another Gunsaber skill) to compensate

 

b) BS depended on abusing the short-CD bug on DT to spam Boost for mobility.  It will struggle now that this has been taken away.  Please consider lowering the base CD on DT and/or increasing the range of Break Step to compensate.

 

c) Since it only has one burst--which requires it to stand still for 2.5s for a full charge-- BS struggles to gain/maintain max stacks of Berserker's Power and Adrenal Healing.  This is a big drawback for the spec since it is being forced away from shoutspam. Please consider reducing the CD on DT and/or re-evaluating how DT interacts with traits (maybe 0-2 charges = Tier 1 burst; 3-5 charges = T2; 6+ charges = T3).

All in all, though, this is an incredible gift to Warrior.  Thank you so much for your work on this!

In other words, the fool's gold is just glitter!

[Myror.7521]

Tho the only "bad" thing for zerker will be 2things Berserker mode opening isnt a burst skill so no instant 3 Stacks of Berserkers Power means less dps also the fact it doesnt deal dmg anymore. Heabutt plus Berserkers cc Brake will be not that usefull anymore so this means you cant sit that long in zerk Mode anymore. Tho those are just massive nerfs to zerker in pve xd!

[Obtena.7952]

Great IMO ... Almost a full step backwards to Berserker v1 plus some improvements as well. I guess my long standing complaint about berserker design flaws can be laid to rest. 👍

 

[KryTiKaL.3125]

1 hour ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Cleansing Ire:

Not having this proc off of burst use is a missed opportunity.  I understand not wanting Warrior to be able to cleanse infinitely, but requiring Warrior to land the burst (many of which are slow/highly telegraphed and need to be done in melee range) means the benefit from this trait is highly inconsistent.    Here's a compromise idea:

 

Cleansing Ire:

gain adrenaline when hit

Cleanse one condition when using a burst skill

Gain Resolution (2s) per bar of adrenaline spent

 

This way you get a little bit of extra cleansing combined with an anti-condi boon.  It also synergizes with Hardened Armor.

I do think Cleansing Ire should remain a cleanse, mostly because if Berserker is to take advantage of Defense it is going to probably need the cleanse utility for itself seeing as the Cleansing Ire nerfs pre-PoF was one of the biggest, most egregiously damaging things to Berserker in PvP. Especially with all of the condi that came in with PoF Elite Specs. It effectively nuked the spec and it still to this day never regained any impactful Condi cleanse while also being able to actually deal damage. I do think we should probably find some way to have more synergy with Hardened Armor from the Defense line. Maybe that can come in the form of dropping Resolution as well onto Berserker Stance so it can return as an actual means of countering Conditions like it used to be.

Quote

Stalwart Strength:

Ehh...I mean, it's worth a try, I guess.  The problem is that "when you disable a foe" mechanics are highly unreliable ('cause enemies dodge/block/blind/etc).  Moreover, you really need stability to be applied in an on-demand manner (like Brave Stride) rather than serendipitously for it to be truly useful.  Further, the damage mod when you have stability won't add up to much since stability is (appropriately) a relatively rare and short-lived boon.  Contrast that with something like Guardian's Retribution trait which gives them +10% dmg with resolution--a boon of which they can have near 100% uptime with certain builds.

 

My suggestion:

Stalwart Strength:

Gain +180 toughness

Gain Might (10s) when you are hit (1s CD)

 

This gives you a nice blend of defense and offense.  There is also synergy with Might Makes Right.  And the damage gained from might is limited both by the CD of the trait and the might cap--unlike the uncapped damage from stacking multiple damage modifiers.

I think the approach they have for this is sound, but I do think it should be something other than Stability where they get this damage increase. Actually I think something that would immensely help Warrior in both PvP and PvE is throwing a little tack on to the Aggressive Onslaught GM trait to give Warriors a 10% damage increase while affected by Quickness. This would literally be a buff to all Warrior builds since Strength is the go to Specialization right after Discipline normally,  and it will also directly improve the damage output of Warrior Quickness builds in PvE since thats where it lacks when you run such a build. In PvP I'd say reduce the Movement Speed bonus a bit since 25% Movement Speed + 10% damage increase all while affected by Quickness would bloat that trait in particular...but honestly I'm kind of leaning more towards wanting both of those things on there. Warrior could use a little bit of bloat on a GM trait in PvP, especially when it comes to mobility and damage since it has been getting out classed in both those areas for a very long time now.

Quote

Wild Blow:

The changes to this skill are good, but the long cast time and melee range make it a hard sell over Bull's Charge.  Giving it a bit more range (240-300?) would be good.

I do agree Wild Blow should get some sort of leap effect on it. There really are not a lot of good alternatives to Bull's Charge in PvP purely because its an evade while being a movement skill, so I think maybe this sort of idea needs to get spread to at least one of the skills for Berserker. I think Wild Blow would be perfect for this in just having it be a bit of a short range dash, it would also help counteract some of the hugely glaring issues that Warrior has just against most classes due in large part to the fact that Blind is becoming so disgustingly common now. The classes that you would expect Warrior could, or should, shut down the most all have blinds. Guardian, Necromancer, Elementalist. Consistent ones too. Actually I think pretty much every class aside from Warrior has some form of reliably applying Blind to targets. Warrior has Smoldering Arrow.

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Sundering Leap:

Similar to Wild Blow, the changes are very welcome but probably don't make it worth taking over Bull's Charge.  I propose increasing the range to 900 and making it immobilize targets (2s) instead of cripple.  These changes, combined with the fact that it does damage and has a lower CD, would make it a strong alternative to BC.

I think the Cripple and range is fine, it can synergize with Leg Specialist should they choose to go Tactics. 900 range would be a lot for a skill that deals AoE damage and immobilizes that isn't a burst skill. Also yes I know Phase Smash is a thing on Revenant and its also an evade + teleport...we won't get into that right now haha.

Quote

Shattering Blow:
Not a good skill.  Some suggestions:  Change the block to 3/4s evade.  Make the explosion/bleed hit targets in a 360 degree, 360 radius. 

I think the AoE idea is nice for this, but I don't think it should be an evade. I know its tempting to want to load up evades onto Warrior when classes like Thief and Revenant tend to have a good number of them, as well as teleports, but I'm not sure thats the solution. At least not until we get our hands on the current changes to these things then I think we can assess if more evades are necessary additions to Warrior.

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Bladesworn:

The nerfs are well-deserved.  Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately?), I think removing the bloated shout heal will expose the underlying design flaws of the spec.  Here are a few glaring ones:

 

a) BS doesn't have much in the way of defense.  It relied in healing through everything rather than blocking/negating incoming dmg.  Please consider adding evade frames on Cyclone Trigger (or another Gunsaber skill) to compensate

 

b) BS depended on abusing the short-CD bug on DT to spam Boost for mobility.  It will struggle now that this has been taken away.  Please consider lowering the base CD on DT and/or increasing the range of Break Step to compensate.

 

c) Since it only has one burst--which requires it to stand still for 2.5s for a full charge-- BS struggles to gain/maintain max stacks of Berserker's Power and Adrenal Healing.  This is a big drawback for the spec since it is being forced away from shoutspam. Please consider reducing the CD on DT and/or re-evaluating how DT interacts with traits (maybe 0-2 charges = Tier 1 burst; 3-5 charges = T2; 6+ charges = T3).

Yes. Precisely. The reduction in the bloated sustain Bladesworn had will absolutely reveal its mechanical flaws and flaws in its overall design in competitive modes. I honestly cannot wait to see the tears from the people who religiously defended Bladesworn as not needing changes or being perfect the way it was "because it was doing fine" in these modes. We'll see how it holds up when it can't 12345 its Heal, 3 shout skills and Tactical Reload to pop back to full health anymore. Condi cleanse on it is going to take a hit too.

Also I hate you putting the white background on your posts...it ruins the entire reason I use dark mode 😞 lol

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

Now I'm glad I took the time to make a diviners warrior.

[Gorem.8104]

Ahem...

 

Armored attack being removed and replaced with an effect that happens on dodge rolls. We are losing the 10% power gain on having high toughness. Is this fine? 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Ahem...

 

Armored attack being removed and replaced with an effect that happens on dodge rolls. We are losing the 10% power gain on having high toughness. Is this fine? 

You're gaining it back on the new GM trait, so yes.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

7 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You're gaining it back on the new GM trait, so yes.

Tbh, would love it if they baked it into a Minor. 

[felix.2386]

every change seemed to be tailored for berserker, it will be at least 50% more effective, tho i'm not sure if it will be enough for meta pvp even with 50% effectiveness increase for berserker.

 

also overall damage shave is expected anyway, for having more reliably ways to land damage and better utility sustains

warrior damage is pretty much over tuned for having basically garbage skill sets that never land

Edited September 18, 2022 by felix.2386

[Grand Marshal.4098]

8 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

every change seemed to be tailored for berserker, it will be at least 50% more effective, tho i'm not sure if it will be enough for meta pvp even with 50% effectiveness increase for berserker.

 

also overall damage shave is expected anyway, for having more reliably ways to land damage and better utility sustains

warrior damage is pretty much over tuned for having basically garbage skill sets that never land

All they need is those pve buffs they made for all weapons. Ill accept the selfroots if they are worth it. 

But let me say, let's not get too happy. Resistance is lovely and more abundant, but it's nothing like it used to be. 

Still wishing for a Transfer in Revenge Counter and Resolution. 

Maybe resolution on outrage too. Make it even more worth using. 3 sec of reso, adrenaline. 

[Mickey Nox.1732]

We need some better AOE skills. 

we need to be able to add boons to self and others without banners

most professions can do these with a f 2 key or a single signet not us

long bow still sux 

rifle fires to slow 

spell Braker has nothing to offer in my opinion the bubble and dagger 5 is the best thing about it and dagger 5 sux to

need better condition removal 

need better damage in general its not up to par with the other professions

 

[Gorem.8104]

22 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You're gaining it back on the new GM trait, so yes.

I'm blind, which one? 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

54 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I'm blind, which one? 

The RR replacement, 10% damage increase when you have stability, and you gain stability when you CC a foe. They took out one damage boost and replaced it with another that is less passive. That plus Merciless Hammer is a lot more damage added into the line.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

39 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The RR replacement, 10% damage increase when you have stability, and you gain stability when you CC a foe. They took out one damage boost and replaced it with another that is less passive. That plus Merciless Hammer is a lot more damage added into the line.

And a faaaaaaar more reliable Cull the Weak application. You could use it for the mod before, but without allies or some Body Blow build, it hardly had any use. 

Unlike Retribution from Rev for example.. 

I think it's currently the most potent Adept Major unless tank build with Dogged March. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

15 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

And a faaaaaaar more reliable Cull the Weak application. You could use it for the mod before, but without allies or some Body Blow build, it hardly had any use. 

Unlike Retribution from Rev for example.. 

I think it's currently the most potent Adept Major unless tank build with Dogged March. 

I'm going to spread so much weakness after Oct. 4th...

[BenaSPACE.6028]

Anet, I would urge you to only make the tactical reload change to pvp and wvw only. It's well deserved there, but in pve heal warrior needs all the tools it can get. 

[felix.2386]

5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'm going to spread so much weakness after Oct. 4th...

lol don't be too happy, currently cull the weak only apply to one enemy even if you bring 5 enemy below 50% and goes on CD.

 

you know what i mean.

new trait might only apply to one enemy per burst skill

Edited September 19, 2022 by felix.2386

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

lol don't be too happy, currently cull the weak only apply to one enemy even if you bring 5 enemy below 50% and goes on CD.

 

you know what i mean.

new trait might only apply to one enemy per burst skill

I suspect that it will function like Sundering Burst does, where it is once per interval per target hit.

[Gorem.8104]

9 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The RR replacement, 10% damage increase when you have stability, and you gain stability when you CC a foe. They took out one damage boost and replaced it with another that is less passive. That plus Merciless Hammer is a lot more damage added into the line.

Oh you need to disable a foe for it, which how do you go about doing that? I guess kick still works in that case for Spellbreaker open world builds like Hizen's one but its too bad axe/axe can't proc it, we don't have access to that much cc if you in a proper build unless of course the table from IBS helps with its cc. Who uses maces in open world solo play. 

Essentially, from what I can see, defence will now offer less damage as you have less power then before, and that is assuming we still keep the damage buff on weakened foes. And assuming Cleansing Ire still gives Adrenaline on being hit, at least that looks like a straight buff. Thick skin seems like a straight nerf as it depends on you using your heal skill, which as we can't use signets and keep their passives like other classes, the pure regen you can stack up would be effected by this nerf as I extremely doubt they will give us a lot of barrier after all the barrier nerfs to other classes. 

For open world, after this patch, Defence is a worse traitline to take.  

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Oh you need to disable a foe for it, which how do you go about doing that? I guess kick still works in that case for Spellbreaker open world builds like Hizen's one but its too bad axe/axe can't proc it, we don't have access to that much cc if you in a proper build unless of course the table from IBS helps with its cc. Who uses maces in open world solo play. 

Essentially, from what I can see, defence will now offer less damage as you have less power then before, and that is assuming we still keep the damage buff on weakened foes. And assuming Cleansing Ire still gives Adrenaline on being hit, at least that looks like a straight buff. Thick skin seems like a straight nerf as it depends on you using your heal skill, which as we can't use signets and keep their passives like other classes, the pure regen you can stack up would be effected by this nerf as I extremely doubt they will give us a lot of barrier after all the barrier nerfs to other classes. 

For open world, after this patch, Defence is a worse traitline to take.  

 

 

The damage boost is when you have stability, it also gives stability on CC. Brave Stride in PvE can provide multiple stacks of stability for high upkeep depending on your boon duration and movement skill setup. Spellbreaker comes with built in CC no matter which weapon you take. Making CTW easier to activate is also a passive increase in DPS because it's damage mod is easier to access. MH while only working for two weapons, is also a 20% increase when wielding those weapons. Overall they improved damage access, improved access to AH, improved defenses with added protection and resistance, and added more barrier for damage mitigation, and added an easy source of stability. I'd say that for OW it is a drastic improvement to the line.

 

The only use cases I can see where people should QQ is people who were meming with 5000 power builds and BSW's cheesing Arm's crit chance on burst to run Cavalier builds. For former, that really isn't an efficient build (yes I played with it, you kill things almost as quickly running a normal build and have more variety in your setup to do so), and for the later that build will suffer more due to the TR nerf but will still function well with either unshakable mountain or the new stance trait while running a power main stat set. Basically it will move to Valkyrie instead and abuse barrier applications.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Bloody Roar my baby, my darling let me ignore blind and weakness for 3 seconds that's ALL I need, I will put them all in the ground

Edited September 19, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Bloody Roar my baby, my darling let me ignore blind and weakness for 3 seconds that's ALL I need, I will put them all in the ground

You'd do that quicker with the new Wild Blow.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You'd do that quicker with the new Wild Blow.

 

Never underestimate the pressure you generate by suddenly busting out a 6k cyclone axe when your opponent thought you'd be blind or weakened.

 

That position makes people want to dodge, and guess who has a decap ready for you if you decide to. 

 

ᴵᵗ'ˢ ᵐᵉᵉᵉᵉᵉ

Edited September 19, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261