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Worried about soulbeast pet swap change...


Arheundel.6451
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Worried now SB will go from "balanced niche" to target of nerfs for months to come. While many are celebrating the change, I find it unnecessary and without any real forethought behind it, I'd assume they will rely on the old and trusted "overnerf later if it becomes too strong". It is at this stage that I suggest CMC to apply any of the teo changes below:

1) Double CD of pet swap for Soulbeast in PvP/WvW

2) Remove ability to ress pet from Soulbeast

I welcome all the negative emojies but I'd rather take the hit now when ranger can afford it and where it won't make SB a pain to play, than wait for later when they will try to nerf around the issue, simply speaking this change makes Soulbeast too good of an option compared to everything else on ranger, the main benefit of playing soulbeast was the ressing of the pet and its removal when notn needed during group fights..but now a soulbeast will be able to play like a normal ranger...without any of the weaknesses ...and no, that's not a good thing

Edited by Arheundel.6451
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Chances are actually pretty high that it lasts. I don't think it will affect PvE or zerg play in WvW much, they obviously don't care at all about scall scale in WvW and if it turns out op in sPvP it will likely get changed "in PvP only".

Edited by UmbraNoctis.1907
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3 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Chances are actually pretty high that it lasts. I don't think it will affect PvE or zerg play in WvW much, they don't care at all about scall scale in WvW and if it turns out op in sPvP it will likely get changed "in PvP only".

I can tell you now that in PvP, gold tier up to plat 2, the soulbeast will be deemed OP : with "Shared anguish" and "eternal bond", I don't know how it will interact with buffed warrior/revenant in that role  but I know sb will be nerfed there in the long run.

In WvW, it will be complained about in small scale...a lot...very a lot, even more because many FOTMers will switch from nerfed super sayan scrapper to "boonbeast"..mark my words, while in large fights I guess SB will be just better to use

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dude that is a given, anet devs are alien to the class and despise it because of that. 
that much is confirmed, if they need to ask in their “experts” discords on what to nerf. 

just enjoy it while it last, probably for a day or so before the pvp whining starts. 

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45 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Elevated Bond: This trait no longer prevents pet swapping while in combat. Traits that trigger when swapping pets no longer trigger when entering Beastmode.

Getting pet swap back is already coming with a nerf, so why would it more? 🤦‍♂️
 

 

And you also lose 10% damage by not taking Oppressive Superiority or Leader of the Pack which is now a top tier support/utility trait with its increased range by sharing Dolyak Stance alone (it's the one that's going to be taken in WvW group fights). You can still swap pets in combat if you don't take it.

Edited by Khenzy.9348
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8 hours ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

You can still swap pets in combat if you don't take it.

Indeed you can, but it’s not going to be like it was pretrade off period where merging triggered on swap traits. We are getting a toned down version, so technically still having a trade off. 

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4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This isn't going to change much on Soulbeast.

Not sure why everyone is hyping this up.

It's quintessential to toggle between Smokescale merged skills and the Smokescale's skills itself while unmerged. There isn't going to be much time or even a purpose to swapping off Smokescale, like ever.

 

What? No. You will still be able to do that and THEN having the option to have another pet + three more merged pet skills. The combos you can potentially make are huge. Eternal bond is almost a mandatory trait, you gain almost too much from it.

 

4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

The traits that work on pet swapping aren't really useful on the good Soulbeast builds. It just runs Wilderness/Beastmastery/Soulbeast on the good builds, and if anything, removing the proc of those traits on merge and unmerge is a bad thing because it'll mess with the use of lesser quick zephyr while going in and out of merge, which is a stupid change and whoever made this decision clearly does not know much about how the dynamic of Soulbeast plays out at all.

 

As someone who has been playing Sword/Warhorn + Longbow on soulbeast for a long time (which I will always claim it's a stronger combo on SlB than GS/LB in WvW for many reasons), unmerging from smokescale > into an F2 (smoke field) > warhorn 4 blast > sword leap > leaving the pet as a decoy while I disengage or reposition, many people usually call me cheater or worse because in addition to that combo and longbow stealth it feels like I have as much stealth as a thief. I reengage merging with smokescale and I also gain quickness+fury+protection+vigor while cleansing lots of conditions (I play with the Unstopable Union trait), so I come out clean and ready to burst. It's basically a clean reset every ~12 seconds when those two trait effects align. Not gaining lesser quickening zephir on merge/unmerge anymore is going to hurt me, A LOT. But you know what? I don't care. I will just readapt my playstyle, like I always did. I will still gain lesser quickening zephir on pet swap (while also having the option to have even more stability uptime on pet swap). With proper CD management on pet swap you should still be able to cast Smokescale F2 every 20s with little effort, the amount of utility and versatility you gain is massive. You will need to readapt. A good Soulbeast player will get a good use out of the additional pet and will come out stronger than now and if you choose the Eternal Bond trait, in spite of losing ~10% damage it's still definitely a buff as a whole, so you will come out stronger as well.

 

Edited by Khenzy.9348
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5 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This isn't going to change much on Soulbeast.

Not sure why everyone is hyping this up.

It's quintessential to toggle between Smokescale merged skills and the Smokescale's skills itself while unmerged. There isn't going to be much time or even a purpose to swapping off Smokescale, like ever.

The traits that work on pet swapping aren't really useful on the good Soulbeast builds. It just runs Wilderness/Beastmastery/Soulbeast on the good builds, and if anything, removing the proc of those traits on merge and unmerge is a bad thing because it'll mess with the use of lesser quick zephyr while going in and out of merge, which is a stupid change and whoever made this decision clearly does not know much about how the dynamic of Soulbeast plays out at all.

I do agree it won't change Soulbeast much but it will now require much more skill in PvP to pull off any sort of rotation. If anything it is a nerf to Smokescale since to take advantage of pet swap traits you will have to use something else other than Smokescale. 

In terms PvE it will most likely be a dps buff in places since I don't think any rotation relied on pet swap. 

Edited by Mell.4873
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3 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I do agree it won't change Soulbeast much but it will now require much more skill in PvP to pull off any sort of rotation. If anything it is a nerf to Smokescale since to take advantage of pet swap traits you will have to use something else other than Smokescale. 

I don't get any of this, you can swap while merged which means pet swapping traits are more accesible now and more important Soulbeast is more versatile in WvW.  

Anyway the whining will start because soulbeasts will show more mobility now in some occasions . It does not change anything else really. 

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20 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I don't get any of this, you can swap while merged which means pet swapping traits are more accesible now and more important Soulbeast is more versatile in WvW.  

Anyway the whining will start because soulbeasts will show more mobility now in some occasions . It does not change anything else really. 

Yeah 100% agree, I was more countering the idea that smokescale won't ever be swapped out like @Khenzy.9348was saying. 

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Soulbeast already performs well so I do share some your worries. Having 1 pet forced soulbeast to specialize. It was less fun but also has some benefits for balance. They could have added the swap only on eternal bond and I would have already been happy. There is a high chance there will be lots of complains as soon as the patch comes out but only time will tell how it performs and if it stays or not. They said they would monitor the traits during the stream but it could just be the healing value.

In the meantime I will enjoy it and experiment. In PvP my first attempt will probably be something like avatar amulet, sicem and skirmishing to get some ferocity + crit chance back. 

Edited by aymnad.9023
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This is a buff for Soulbeast, return of the glory days. Owl for sustain and mobility and Smokescale for utility and damage. for WvW that is, for pvp....well meh, maybe it'll have an easier time dealing with Willy benders.

I'm also very happy they finaly changed Shared Anguish since that trait has been garbage for years.

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8 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I don't get any of this, you can swap while merged which means pet swapping traits are more accesible now and more important Soulbeast is more versatile in WvW.  

Anyway the whining will start because soulbeasts will show more mobility now in some occasions . It does not change anything else really. 

If it allows you to swap while in merge, it will be a massive buff in pvp, wvw, and pve.

If it does not allow you to swap in merge, it's going to a massive nerf to the use of those traits, and a bad implementation of wonky keyboard piano required to perform what would otherwise be simple clean tasks now.

 

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10 hours ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

You will need to readapt. A good Soulbeast player will get a good use out of the additional pet and will come out stronger than now and if you choose the Eternal Bond trait, in spite of losing ~10% damage it's still definitely a buff as a whole, so you will come out stronger as well.

Well first of all, when I made those initial posts, I assumed we would not be able to swap pets while in merge form because I did not notice the portion that confirmed there will be swapping while in merge form.

The swap while in merge is going to make Soulbeast incredibly strong.

Edited by Trevor Boyer.6524
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3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Well first of all, when I made those initial posts, I assumed we would not be able to swap pets while in merge form because I did not notice the portion that confirmed there will be swapping while in merge form.

The swap while in merge is going to make Soulbeast incredibly strong.

Yeah I agree, I guess there argument is the cooldown will be longer to activate certain traits but you have essentially 2 pet bars to compensate.

For PvP cooldowns mean nothing really so just utility buff. You could slot in two mobility pets and just zoom around the map if you wanted.
For PvE it is a massive buff since Soulbeast is already the top Ranger DPS (Untamed 41k rotation is unrealistic)

Edited by Mell.4873
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4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Well first of all, when I made those initial posts, I assumed we would not be able to swap pets while in merge form because I did not notice the portion that confirmed there will be swapping while in merge form.

The swap while in merge is going to make Soulbeast incredibly strong.

Not really, you still have to compete with all the other power creep classes that surpassed soulbeast a long time ago. Getting pet swap back isn’t a return to our glory days, it’s returning as a toned down version of it, guessing cmc doesn’t want a return of boonbeast.

Pet swap while merged on the other hand is going to open up some salt inducing gameplay and will likely get nerfed sooner rather than later. Beast abilities will likely share the same cool-downs when swapping to the same family of pets and archetype, similar to how using barrage on 1st longbow, then swapping to another longbow still has barrage on cooldown. So in order to get the most out of it you will have to take different family and different archetype of pets. I’d be looking into shenanigans like taking hyena and smokescale, leap > knockdown > prelude lash  followed by merged swap > knockdown > smoke assault > maul > worldly impact > /dance for luls.

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24 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Not really, you still have to compete with all the other power creep classes that surpassed soulbeast a long time ago. Getting pet swap back isn’t a return to our glory days, it’s returning as a toned down version of it, guessing cmc doesn’t want a return of boonbeast.

Pet swap while merged on the other hand is going to open up some salt inducing gameplay and will likely get nerfed sooner rather than later. Beast abilities will likely share the same cool-downs when swapping to the same family of pets and archetype, similar to how using barrage on 1st longbow, then swapping to another longbow still has barrage on cooldown. So in order to get the most out of it you will have to take different family and different archetype of pets. I’d be looking into shenanigans like taking hyena and smokescale, leap > knockdown > prelude lash  followed by merged swap > knockdown > smoke assault > maul > worldly impact > /dance for luls.

I like the idea of using both Rock Gazelle and maybe Warthog for a super mobility build.

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14 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

If it allows you to swap while in merge, it will be a massive buff in pvp, wvw, and pve.

If it does not allow you to swap in merge, it's going to a massive nerf to the use of those traits, and a bad implementation of wonky keyboard piano required to perform what would otherwise be simple clean tasks now.

 

As you probably know now there is a GM which will allow swap pets while merged. But let me tell you one thing: It is not going to be as great as you may thing. So now you will be forced to use that trait otherwise as you pointed out, it would be a very wonky Soulbeast. 

However i do expect the new mechanic to take advantage mostly of an additional burst mobility, and thats all. Merged skills are typically pretty bad damage or support  and are only used for the utility (CC or mobility). So most builds will be with 2 mobility pets and one heal archetype. Smockescale/Gazelle  and Owl i bet. 

Yet i bet you will begin to see some whining in the pvp forums soon enough about how the soulbeast suddenly has thief mobility and can teleport all around the map. With the consecuential blind nerfs.

In any case swapping in merged state should be baseline, because now every soulbeast will use the new trait and stop offering team support, so the leader of the pack half measure will be a waste of effort.  

Some reasonable pain point will be the "heal when using merged skills" thou. I am afraid with skills in such a low CD as 1s even in a low healing can be exploited. But well what can you expect from devs who think removing the cleanses from verdant etching trait is a good idea and instead they keep ancient seeds. 

 

 

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