Worried about soulbeast pet swap change...

[Sahne.6950]

On 9/17/2022 at 12:46 PM, Arheundel.6451 said:

Worried now SB will go from "balanced niche" to target of nerfs for months to come. While many are celebrating the change, I find it unnecessary and without any real forethought behind it, I'd assume they will rely on the old and trusted "overnerf later if it becomes too strong". It is at this stage that I suggest CMC to apply any of the teo changes below:

1) Double CD of pet swap for Soulbeast in PvP/WvW

2) Remove ability to ress pet from Soulbeast

I welcome all the negative emojies but I'd rather take the hit now when ranger can afford it and where it won't make SB a pain to play, than wait for later when they will try to nerf around the issue, simply speaking this change makes Soulbeast too good of an option compared to everything else on ranger, the main benefit of playing soulbeast was the ressing of the pet and its removal when notn needed during group fights..but now a soulbeast will be able to play like a normal ranger...without any of the weaknesses ...and no, that's not a good thing

i dont really know... but it feels like soulbeast will loose the ability to revive the pet. Just a feeling.

[Sahne.6950]

it might be just me, but i see this as a HUUUUGE buff! Soulbeast will quickly become VERY popular in Conquest! Please for a second imagine the mobility that Slb gets when running for example Gazelle together with a Birdpet.... 2 leaps from the pets+ leap from GS... The mobiltiy will be insane and not many things will be able to keep up! 3 Leaps on a very low cooldown...

Slb will become S-Tier Roamer!

Edited September 19, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[anduriell.6280]

26 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

Tho isnt the pet sweap thing going to be in the same traitline as a dmg buff modifire? Im pretty sure it is! If it is so im just fine with it. If not i see hard nerfs in coming to some bound pet skills xd

are you talking for he measly 10% but only you have more HP than the target? That trait should be a minor and replace Furious grip. At least it would make the soulbeast to have more depth.  Nerf the multiplier in PvP if needed. 

The Eternal Bond is a must have now. That effect should be baseline and balance the Soulbeast in accordance to that capability. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

7 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Yet i bet you will begin to see some whining in the pvp forums soon enough about how the soulbeast suddenly has thief mobility and can teleport all around the map. With the consecuential blind nerfs

Right now everyone thinks Boonbeast builds are going to come back, but that isn't what's going to happen. Boonbeast builds are dead. There are still too many skill splits for stances in pvp which make them weak, still removal of boon duration amulets.

What's going to happen is the use of Sic Em OWP Soulbeast builds that will now have Smokescale + Gazelle. It's going to enhance the Soulbeast's mobility a great deal and provide an additional gap closing CC that actually deals a lot of damage for following up and finishing bursts.

People will complain about it by end of first week. Soulbeast will be a lot more difficult to catch and get away from.

[Khenzy.9348]

^A stronger boonbeast should definitely be a thing in WvW though (ignoring the fact that changing pets in combat is an improvement to all ranger specs, mind you). Depending on how long the Stability is on pet swap you could realistically achieve permanent stability uptime. Too many things to test, we shall see.

[Arheundel.6451]

6 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i dont really know... but it feels like soulbeast will loose the ability to revive the pet. Just a feeling.

I can feel that soulbeast will receive a spec changing nerf in a short amount of time. It was initially nerfed because soulbeast was and now will be again , just too good compared to other elites because it gets rid of the most ill designed mechanic in the game while offering some of the best utilities in same ballpark  Too much is the same package to be left alone without either overbuffing the rest or ground nerfing the to the same level and that's what I feel will end up being.

In the same stream, CMC stated that a profession like necro didn't need trade off because it was giving up something for another thing...and that's what an elite supposed to be, an alternative gameplay without downgrading too much on the base.....but soon soulbeast will be again core ranger 3.0 and it will butchered even more than before, when instead soulbeast should have simply been a "ranger that gives up pet swap for more focused gameplay/ress mechanic and more dmg/support"

As others have said...the devs don't play the class and really have no clue about the repercussions of their ill thought decisions.

It's a kittening shame, because regardless of what some may think, the spec was actual fine to play and could offer viable options in wvw still...but now in the same patch where they nerfed "immortal scrapper"...they overbuff soulbeast and they will end overnerfing it...like removing the ressing option and you would end up with a worst Untamed.....

Edited September 19, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[magic fly.2041]

I really liked the "you can only use one pet" mechanic because soulbeast is about your strong bond with your one pet, not your diluted bond with a menagerie of pets.

 

Thematically the spec will lose flavor even if it gains more usability.

[Jeddite.8620]

no worries other classes got buffed too.

 

im really looking forward to 4 october, its good to have soulbeast back. = )

 

[Abyssisis.3971]

5 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

People will complain about it by end of first week. Soulbeast will be a lot more difficult to catch and get away from.

Soulbeast will be brought up to par with willbender and thief in terms of mobility, which is where it should be.

[anduriell.6280]

14 hours ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

^A stronger boonbeast should definitely be a thing in WvW though (ignoring the fact that changing pets in combat is an improvement to all ranger specs, mind you). Depending on how long the Stability is on pet swap you could realistically achieve permanent stability uptime. Too many things to test, we shall see.

Out of curiosity, boonbeast how. Or are you theory crafting by the wiki. 

[Abyssisis.3971]

2 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Out of curiosity, boonbeast how. Or are you theory crafting by the wiki. 

Boonbeast won’t return in the same fashion as the previous boonbeast, simply because pet swap traits on merging aren’t going to be a thing after the patch. 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Being able to swap while merged is a amazing change that will make soulbeast far more enjoyable to play and far less clunky, it also opens up so many possibilities of play. Those facts alone make me care little for how balanced it is as being fun to use/play is far more important in a game for the vast majority of players, especially since most pve and only play pvp on the side. I only pvp and this change and the warrior change definitely seem like anets goin in the right direction. If soulbeast needs changes post patch than cool but hopefully the ability to swap while merge stays permanently, I woulda even made it baseline vs trait to open build diversity but having it in a trait is better than not at all.

[anduriell.6280]

1 hour ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Boonbeast won’t return in the same fashion as the previous boonbeast, simply because pet swap traits on merging aren’t going to be a thing after the patch. 

Boonbeast is not a thing from very long time. That build was heavily dependent in WHaO (for as much as some kept saying that wasn't it) and when it was nerfed to 30s CD the build stopped working. 

Yes the soulbeast can get some boon burst but not 100% uptime as it was before the nerfs to Moa and WHaO. 

[Zyreva.1078]

5 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Boonbeast won’t return in the same fashion as the previous boonbeast, simply because pet swap traits on merging aren’t going to be a thing after the patch. 

It wasn't a thing either before they removed the second pet.

Edited September 20, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Arheundel.6451]

20 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Boonbeast is not a thing from very long time. That build was heavily dependent in WHaO (for as much as some kept saying that wasn't it) and when it was nerfed to 30s CD the build stopped working. 

Yes the soulbeast can get some boon burst but not 100% uptime as it was before the nerfs to Moa and WHaO. 

The major concern is Dolyak stance, it defines soulbeast and there would be no soulbeast without dolyak stance. Getting rid of immobilize/chill is a must now in GW2 , and for a class with a single source of block...mobility is the end game.  

[Gotejjeken.1267]

So, to start, to be blunt CMC likes to balance via memes.  Not just the dehydration thing but things like balancing around Tail Swipe or justifying Bladesworn being immobile by showing it can hit 500k burst with dev tools in one of the preview streams.

The problem here is, the memes never stick.  Tail Swipe was nerfed and never was the problem, Unnatural Traversal combos were, and Bladesworn is super powerful in a lot of game modes regardless of how much full Dragon Slash does.

What does this have to do with Soulbeast? I fear we'll see a return of some tradeoff but different than what we have, based solely on past history and being very well acquainted with ranger. 

Yes, we have meme builds like Sic Em' sniper but only people who care or die to that are same ones complaining about Mechanist's OP damage.  The real problem is Soulbeast gets the flexibility of Untamed, just minus the full pet control.  Which yes, is significant, but Soulbeast is also way less APM to play for pretty much equal tradeoff with Untamed.    

Also, I'm not sure where Boonbeast isn't a thing---but it is in WvW.  Fresh Reinforcement shouldn't get touched by these changes as it isn't triggered when swapping pets (its triggered when merging), so you can still might stack with axe and now get things like stability and all the same boons as before (just have to manually swap pet first), then merge...and voila.  Basically, in WvW unkillible Celebeast is very much a thing and now it has alacrity if you wanna go full bunker. 

But I digress; yes, in the right hands this upgraded soulbeast will wreck pretty much anything in a 5v5 or small scale WvW setup.  Not even sure if this is fair, balanced, will stick, or if it's just CMC finally meme'ing Ranger into the meta.  

Edited September 22, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267

[anduriell.6280]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

n WvW unkillible Celebeast is very much a thing

In WvW any Cele build is pretty much unkillable, but not because of the build but because those stats are busted. Anet in PvE tone deaf fashion brought that to WvW and broke the minimal balance there was. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[Gotejjeken.1267]

7 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

In WvW any Cele build is pretty much unkillable, but not because of the build but because those stats are busted. Anet in PvE tone deaf fashion brought that to WvW and broke the minimal balance there was. 

 

This is called a whataboutsm.  I don't care about other builds, and here it isn't cele--any boon set will get you there as long as fresh reinforcement exists.  

[Abyssisis.3971]

The question I’d like answering is whether swapping pets while merged will trigger pet swap traits?

[captrowdy.9561]

What will be the cooldown on pet swapping? The way in understand it is instead of bonding or unbinding you just swap pets to activate the traits? If the cooldown is higher then 10 it’ll be a nerf 

[anduriell.6280]

11 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

This is called a whataboutsm.  I don't care about other builds, and here it isn't cele--any boon set will get you there as long as fresh reinforcement exists.  

You are using a bad analogy instead discussing the argument i shared. It doesn't matter what you care or not, the fact is cele builds are broken in any class and it does not matter on which way is each of them. As such discussing how cele ranger is broken but ignoring the fact the rest of the game is in the same state , and thinking that by fixing the ranger cele would fix the state of the class when if fact you are setting the class to be in a disadvantage to others is a failed or ill conceived. 

In any case i got the impression you are just one of those whom dedicate their time to ask for constant absurd veiled nerfs on the class while pretending to be a player or a main of such. Not that you are any special, there are a some like you here, using the wiki to pretend. 

3 minutes ago, captrowdy.9561 said:

What will be the cooldown on pet swapping? The way in understand it is instead of bonding or unbinding you just swap pets to activate the traits? If the cooldown is higher then 10 it’ll be a nerf 

The way i understood you get 20s to swap pets while merged and the possibility to merge and unmerge. But we will see. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

52 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

You are using a bad analogy instead discussing the argument i shared. It doesn't matter what you care or not, the fact is cele builds are broken in any class and it does not matter on which way is each of them. As such discussing how cele ranger is broken but ignoring the fact the rest of the game is in the same state , and thinking that by fixing the ranger cele would fix the state of the class when if fact you are setting the class to be in a disadvantage to others is a failed or ill conceived. 

 

In any case i got the impression you are just one of those whom dedicate their time to ask for constant absurd veiled nerfs on the class while pretending to be a player or a main of such. Not that you are any special, there are a some like you here, using the wiki to pretend. 

 

Congrats, you managed to add ad hominem and strawman fallacies to your argument.  

To be clear, what I'm saying is cele has nothing to do with ranger boon application.  It has nothing to do with ranger anything actually--as I said before you can change 'celebeast' to anything with some boon duration and get the same results because of fresh reinforcement.  

If you doubt I'm a main, check my YT or find me in game.  Think we can easily see who's who.  

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

7 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

The question I’d like answering is whether swapping pets while merged will trigger pet swap traits?

It probably will, but afaik there wasn't any confirmation one way or another.

[Anjo.3170]

02-25-2020

"Soulbeasts, long standing without a tradeoff, are now receiving theirs—they lose combat access to a second pet and must choose carefully which pet they're going to be bonded with in battle."

"Soulbeasts can no longer swap pets while in combat. Entering and leaving beastmode with your pet now counts as a pet swap for the purposes of the Clarion Bond and Zephyr's Speed traits."

 

This was a change that should have never been.  They had no idea how to kitten SB so they came up with this tradeoff meme.

Oct 4th is only part 1 of the balance patches. SB isnt the only class getting buffs, wait and see until everything is out there. 

There will be cooldowns between pet swapping and for all we know there could be global cooldowns for similar skills, maybe anything considered a leap or swiftness may be on a cooldown if you swap to a pet with the similar skill.

[Downstate.4697]

Everyone says owl but im looking at hyena. I think the cc will outweigh the heal owl brings. You also have more consistent mobility.

I think soulbeast will be used much more in ranked at high levels, but untamed will be seen more in ATs.