Distortion on virtuoso suggestion.

[zealex.9410]

Since the livestream for the balance changes in oct 4th theres been alot of excitement (and concern) on the forums about virtuoso specificly getting distortion, the idea is that it could open up virtuoso to being able to use distortion into blade renewal into blade requiem which justifiably is quite scary. That being said i think virtuoso needs a form of distiotion because as a defensive blade requiem is inferior to distortion, which is why blade renewal is smth that seems alot of use in competitive.

 

My suggestion would be to instead of distortion to give virtuoso blade renewal as their f5 replacing distortion (which makes sense, a selling point of virtuoso was new shatters and distortion clashes with that)keeping bladesong requiem asthe f4 and allowing virtuoso to have a generator on their f5 as a unique mechanic of the spec. This also tackles another problem with blade renewal which is that the skill as a defensive and as blade generations is quite opressive and blows alternatives like double image or decoy out of the water.

This isnt the easiest suggestion to implement because it would require a new utility made in its place so i dont expect it to happen but i really think it would be a great middle ground which would also free virtuoso from taking blade renewal (like back in the day mesmer would always take illusionary persona).

EDIT: An excellent and more balanced alternative i saw was swapping blade renewal and blade requiem as f4 (blade renewal is a distort so a fitting replacement for distortion on virtuoso) and keep blade renewal not having a cost to use. These are merely suggestions for the problems the spec will ahve which i find is having distort and renewal and requiem and renewal being a mandatory utility for virtuoso.

Edited September 17, 2022 by zealex.9410

[Tseison.4659]

I made the suggestion during the beta testing to have Blade Renewal as an F4 skill since it made the most sense being there, while having Bladeturn Requiem as a utility. 

Atleast with these two swapping places, we wouldn't have to worry about Virtuoso getting Distortion anymore since we'll have it on Blade Renewal on the now F4 skill.

Thats the one suggestion. The only other one I can think of is giving the same effect CS has to Bladeturn Requiem or the Distortions Chrono and Virtuoso is getting, where other Mesmer skills can't reset it them via Signet of Illusions.

Other than that, yeah one can say it'll be strong, in the hands of a good Mesmer as there's only a few of us in the field. But if you're just slotting all of this distortion with no cleanse/break stun or sacrificing damage, the moment you blow all of the distortion, you'll be a sitting duck.

[phokus.8934]

Blade Renewal should've been the F4.  Now there's going to be banana invuln/block/distortion party for Virtuoso's in wvw and pvp.

[VocalThought.9835]

I think Blade Renewal will still be a Utility Skill. They're just adding Distortion to F4.

[Tseison.4659]

14 minutes ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

I think Blade Renewal will still be a Utility Skill. They're just adding Distortion to F4.

We're aware. The OP is just stating that there will be more Distortion added onto the Virtuoso spec when it already has two other forms of avoiding damage via Bladeturn Requiem and Blade Renewal. So they were just thinking of better solutions to avoid too much overlap of Distortion.

[zealex.9410]

5 hours ago, Tseison.4659 said:

I made the suggestion during the beta testing to have Blade Renewal as an F4 skill since it made the most sense being there, while having Bladeturn Requiem as a utility. 

Atleast with these two swapping places, we wouldn't have to worry about Virtuoso getting Distortion anymore since we'll have it on Blade Renewal on the now F4 skill.

Thats the one suggestion. The only other one I can think of is giving the same effect CS has to Bladeturn Requiem or the Distortions Chrono and Virtuoso is getting, where other Mesmer skills can't reset it them via Signet of Illusions.

Other than that, yeah one can say it'll be strong, in the hands of a good Mesmer as there's only a few of us in the field. But if you're just slotting all of this distortion with no cleanse/break stun or sacrificing damage, the moment you blow all of the distortion, you'll be a sitting duck.

The only reason i wouldnt want requiem removed is because in pve its a dps skill for condi virt, other than that i wouldnt mind.

[Tseison.4659]

8 minutes ago, zealex.9410 said:

The only reason i wouldnt want requiem removed is because in pve its a dps skill for condi virt, other than that i wouldnt mind.

Fair. Though I'm sure your dps wouoldn't suffer THAT much in all honesty as it's still a skill to block attacks, it just has the added damage for flavour and since Virtuoso is meant to excel at range, it's never really wise to use it to face tank enemies just to deal minor damage. 🤷‍♀️

[zealex.9410]

8 minutes ago, Tseison.4659 said:

Fair. Though I'm sure your dps wouoldn't suffer THAT much in all honesty as it's still a skill to block attacks, it just has the added damage for flavour and since Virtuoso is meant to excel at range, it's never really wise to use it to face tank enemies just to deal minor damage. 🤷‍♀️

Personally dont mind the extra defensives on virtuoso considering the design limitations it has, lile channel times,projectiles and projectile travel time,that being said making your requiem the utility would be the easiest swap.

[Solomons.9713]

I just hope the f4 distortion on virtuoso will be instant and that we are allowed to do skills while being distorted because you never know with Anet, instead of being like blade renewal where it's defensive only and you're locked into a channel.

Tho virtuoso didn't even need more defensive tools, it's needs more fluent gameplay and some number buffs.

Also, swiftness on core traitlines when Anet? You said you were looking into boon application and removal, I suggest looking into boon application on mesmer and compare that to other classes.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Solomons.9713

[Tseison.4659]

25 minutes ago, Solomons.9713 said:

I just hope the f4 distortion on virtuoso will be instant and that we are allowed to do skills while being distorted because you never know with Anet, instead of being like blade renewal where it's defensive only and you're locked into a channel.

Tho virtuoso didn't even need more defensive tools, it's needs more fluent gameplay and some number buffs.

Also, swiftness on core traitlines when Anet? You said you were looking into boon application and removal, I suggest looking into boon application on mesmer and compare that to other classes.

Oh it’s 100% going to be instant cast lol. They’re literally just giving core F4 Distortion to Chronomancer and Virtuoso. 👍

[draxynnic.3719]

Be interesting to see how Distortion works with Virtuoso being able to have up to five blades. I guess if there's no IP on Virtuoso, being able to have five seconds with five blades gets counteracted by potentially being unable to use it on zero blades.

It's still potentially a lot of defence if you can keep the blade stack going. 😮

If they wanted to make sure virtuoso always had access to distortion, a better move probably would have been to make Bladeturn Requiem provide distortion instead of block for its duration, and make Psychic Riposte trigger on avoiding attacks with distortion as well.

[Tseison.4659]

14 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Be interesting to see how Distortion works with Virtuoso being able to have up to five blades. I guess if there's no IP on Virtuoso, being able to have five seconds with five blades gets counteracted by potentially being unable to use it on zero blades.

It's still potentially a lot of defence if you can keep the blade stack going. 😮

If they wanted to make sure virtuoso always had access to distortion, a better move probably would have been to make Bladeturn Requiem provide distortion instead of block for its duration, and make Psychic Riposte trigger on avoiding attacks with distortion as well.

Reduced duration for Distortion on Virtuoso unfortunately 😊 give’er take .5 seconds for each blade for a total of 2.5s, wouldn’t be much but it’s “balanced”. Then Chronos Distortion would be unchanged and be the same Distortion as you normally would have on Core and Mirage.

[Exciton.8942]

I like the idea of making blade renewal F5. This opens up a new utility skill, which can be a skill making other skills unblockable, similar to warrior's signet of might.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

They just shouldn't give virt distortion.  Period. 

[Mungo Zen.9364]

So......is this a case of Mesmer players seeing a buff (Virtuoso Distortion) and deciding that they don't want it?  Suggesting it be removed or other skills changed to make room for it?  I know that no one asked for this change, and I am sure that it will have a trickle down at some point but, take the buff and move on! 

Let Anet figure out their game, and if Virt Distortion is too oppressive, let other professions tell them to fix it.  We should continue to push for changes we actually need like updates to Mirage Dodge and fixing Chrono traits.

I am betting that what we get won't be as impactful as it appears, but if it is, again, let Anet deal with it while we abuse it.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

29 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

So......is this a case of Mesmer players seeing a buff (Virtuoso Distortion) and deciding that they don't want it?  Suggesting it be removed or other skills changed to make room for it?  I know that no one asked for this change, and I am sure that it will have a trickle down at some point but, take the buff and move on! 

Let Anet figure out their game, and if Virt Distortion is too oppressive, let other professions tell them to fix it.  We should continue to push for changes we actually need like updates to Mirage Dodge and fixing Chrono traits.

I am betting that what we get won't be as impactful as it appears, but if it is, again, let Anet deal with it while we abuse it.

I'm a Mesmer main, literally only play Mesmer. That doesn't blindfold me from bad decisions made to the class even if it's a buff. Condi Virt bunker is going to be disgusting and terribly unfun to play against, for everyone involved. It's a bad decision. 

Pardon me for wanting a healthy game state and not one filled with obnoxious builds. 

[Levetty.1279]

51 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

So......is this a case of Mesmer players seeing a buff (Virtuoso Distortion) and deciding that they don't want it?  Suggesting it be removed or other skills changed to make room for it?  I know that no one asked for this change, and I am sure that it will have a trickle down at some point but, take the buff and move on! 

Let Anet figure out their game, and if Virt Distortion is too oppressive, let other professions tell them to fix it.  We should continue to push for changes we actually need like updates to Mirage Dodge and fixing Chrono traits.

I am betting that what we get won't be as impactful as it appears, but if it is, again, let Anet deal with it while we abuse it.

Mesmer forums have always been filled with """""mesmer""""" players asking for nerfs.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Well as a Mesmer main we take pride in knowing what we need and not need. What will push certain things over the top. For example giving alacrity to Mirage staff was a horrible horrible change while removing our burn. Virtuoso getting Distortion is also a terrible terrible change when it needed things outside of survivability.

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

So......is this a case of Mesmer players seeing a buff (Virtuoso Distortion) and deciding that they don't want it?  Suggesting it be removed or other skills changed to make room for it?  I know that no one asked for this change, and I am sure that it will have a trickle down at some point but, take the buff and move on! 

Let Anet figure out their game, and if Virt Distortion is too oppressive, let other professions tell them to fix it.  We should continue to push for changes we actually need like updates to Mirage Dodge and fixing Chrono traits.

I am betting that what we get won't be as impactful as it appears, but if it is, again, let Anet deal with it while we abuse it.

It's a function of the number of times mesmer has been hit with the "nerf everything except the actual problem, then nerf the actual problem after all other avenues have been exhausted, and then leave all the other skills, traits and so on that got nerfed before they got to the actual problem in a bad state" routine. Where it's clear that something isn't going to last, better to limit the collateral damage.

I really doubt the "bladeturn, then renewal, then distortion" chain will be allowed to stand. Maybe they'll remove the distortion from Blade Renewal and replace it with something else. Aegis could be an interesting choice, since then it could potentially trigger some of the top-line virtuoso traits.

[Voyant.1327]

I mean Blade Renewal F4 instead of Distortion seems like the easiest fix there. 

Can play with cool down a bit to make it fit. Just makes too much sense imo. Add a Blade Signet or something easy to fill the spot.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Bladeturn Requiem is a channeled block; when Master of Fragmentation is traited, the channeled block becomes a channeled distort.

Boom, Virtuoso has distortion without adding YET ANOTHER defensive mechanic to a class which already has plenty of those. You can thank me later.

[JazzXman.7018]

13 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Bladeturn Requiem is a channeled block; when Master of Fragmentation is traited, the channeled block becomes a channeled distort.

Boom, Virtuoso has distortion without adding YET ANOTHER defensive mechanic to a class which already has plenty of those. You can thank me later.

also i dont disagree with the general direction the little problem is that this trait even on chrono and virt still turns all distortion skills into reflects. so virt would get a reflect distort on 17 secs cd. so they need to increase the cd of the virtu f4 remarkable when turning it into a distortion and i guess no one would give away a 17 secs block for a 50 secs distort

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 minute ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

this trait turns all distortion skills into reflects. so virt would get a reflect distort on 17 secs cd

That is true. However, mirror exists already, and I do believe the cd on virtuoso's block could be reworked slightly; cd goes up to some 30s, but every attack it blocks reduces the cd by 2s, with 0.5s ICD; this way, using it skillfully will reward you with a lower cooldown, but it can be punished, and at most goes down to 24s cd.

[JazzXman.7018]

1 minute ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

That is true. However, mirror exists already, and I do believe the cd on virtuoso's block could be reworked slightly; cd goes up to some 30s, but every attack it blocks reduces the cd by 2s, with 0.5s ICD; this way, using it skillfully will reward you with a lower cooldown, but it can be punished, and at most goes down to 24s cd.

not sure i get you right, you will still give illusion virtu a 30 secs distortion incl reflect?

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Just now, JazzXman.7018 said:

not sure i get you right, you will still give illusion virtu a 30 secs distortion incl reflect?

Definitely. If we wanted we could already get much better reflects (reflect on dodge with 10s cd, 16s cd mirror, feedback with 25s cd, all focus skills when traited, all signets with the right traits), we don't do that because it's definitely not that impactful.