Cal and Roy, since you are removing tradeoffs...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

You called the lose of Weapon Swap on BSW it's tradeoff. Does this mean in a future patch that it will get weapon swap back? If so, then can you turn Dragon Trigger and Gunsaber into weapon kits proper on the profession mechanic bar? This would mean that you can enter either from each other and either of the weapon sets. I'd also code it up that leaving either takes you to your previously equipped weapon set unless you use their keys to enter directly. I would also make enter DT not cost flow to enter. You'd have to replace Daring Dragon with something else, but seeing the approaches you are taking now I think you would come up with something very fun. BSW would be in a pretty good spot if you guys make this change.

Also, Spellbreaker was built originally with only the 2 bars of adrenaline and only used 1 bar at a time. This could be argued to be it's tradeoff. Since you are removing such tradeoffs is this then on the docket to review? If so, then I would keep Full Counter as only consuming 1 bar at a time, but return the three bars, and normal F1 usage. Breaching Strike could then gain an extra boon ripped per bar of adrenaline spent for it's higher tiers. This would help out Spellbreaker in all game modes.

You guys joked about ditching Discipline, if you really want to make that a reality, make Fast Hand's weapon swap CD reduction baseline and put a 1s of self quickness on a 4s CD in it's place.

Also, please reduce 100Blade's cast time.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

They could force a "gunsaber kit" into the elite skill slot that can't be removed, but as long as it helps return core burst, I'd settle for that.

For hundred blades, I still want it mobile and have the attack act like engineer hammer 3. It'll look so cool. Obviously, I would want it to be cancelable.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

They could force a "gunsaber kit" into the elite skill slot that can't be removed, but as long as it helps return core burst, I'd settle for that.

For hundred blades, I still want it mobile and have the attack act like engineer hammer 3. It'll look so cool. Obviously, I would want it to be cancelable.

If Gunsaber is moved to the Elite slot then I'd want Armaments to all become advanced 'weapon' kits rather than advanced gadgets. The new Defy Pain would have to have a new CD then, as every part of Gunsaber would count as using an elite skill, but a 20s CD would work.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

21 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

If Gunsaber is moved to the Elite slot then I'd want Armaments to all become advanced 'weapon' kits rather than advanced gadgets. The new Defy Pain would have to have a new CD then, as every part of Gunsaber would count as using an elite skill, but a 20s CD would work.

I'm 100% onboard for Gunsaber being moved to the Elite Slot as a kit. Having access to 3 weapon selections would already be an incredibly useful ability for Warriors (CC + DPS set + Gunsaber; Buff + DPS set + Gunsaber, Range DPS + Melee DPS + Gunsaber, etc) and also tie in with the fact that the Gunsaber is meant to require a weapons master to use--so three sets shouldn't be unreasonable.

What would the thought be with making Dragon Trigger effectively the Warrior "tool belt"? 

• Skills chosen for 6-9 influence the skills available for 2-5 in Dragon Trigger
• Armament Skills add Bullet charges. Other Warrior skills do not.
• Dragon Slash is "chosen" by Grandmaster Trait

[Kayberz.5346]

Stop trying to turn bladesworn into another "core warrior with a tacked on mechanic" spec like the other 2 specs we already have 

 

The whole theme of the spec is that you are a warrior that uses a gunsaber, if they give weapon swap to bladesworn it will inevitably forever camp axe/axe axe/pistol in pve and never even use the gunsaber.

 

God forbid warrior has a spec that actually makes you play differently from the same exact playstyle we've had for 10 years

Edited September 17, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

1 minute ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Stop trying to turn bladesworn into another "core warrior with a tacked on mechanic" spec like the other 2 specs we already have 

 

The whole theme of the spec is that you are a warrior that uses a gunsaber, if they give weapon swap to bladesworn it will inevitably forever camp axe/axe axe/pistol in pve and never even use the gunsaber.

 

God forbid warrior has a spec that actually makes you play differently from the same exact playstyle we've had for 10 years

You're mistaking us wanting improvements to wanting the same old same old. The only reason we discuss changing the especs is because the especs are lacking. That's all. Why do you think Anet relented on berserker and returned core burst? Because the espec is lacking without it.

[Kayberz.5346]

Just now, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

You're mistaking us wanting improvements to wanting the same old same old. The only reason we discuss changing the especs is because the especs are lacking. That's all. Why do you think Anet relented on berserker and returned core burst? Because the espec is lacking without it.

But bladesworn ISN'T lacking without core bursts

 

 

 

 

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

Just now, Kayberz.5346 said:

But bladesworn ISN'T lacking without core bursts

We'll see how it plays without its heal shout crutch.

[Kayberz.5346]

1 minute ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

We'll see how it plays without its heal shout crutch.

There are plenty of ways to tune bladesworns current setup without making convoluted reworks that basically amount to "make bladesworn exactly like core warrior  but with all the bladesworn stuff added on"

[Sobx.1758]

18 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Stop trying to turn bladesworn into another "core warrior with a tacked on mechanic" spec like the other 2 specs we already have 

 

The whole theme of the spec is that you are a warrior that uses a gunsaber, if they give weapon swap to bladesworn it will inevitably forever camp axe/axe axe/pistol in pve and never even use the gunsaber.

 

God forbid warrior has a spec that actually makes you play differently from the same exact playstyle we've had for 10 years

It's kind of funnier when we understand people here tend to complain about warrior especs because they all play the same. The moment it plays differently, it turns into "just make it the regular warrior with new stuff on top of it" 😅 

I get wanting some improvements or QoL stuff dealt with, but this one is just... oof.

 

Just now, Kayberz.5346 said:

There are plenty of ways to tune bladesworns current setup without making convoluted reworks that basically amount to "make bladesworn exactly like core warrior  but with all the bladesworn stuff added on"

Exactly.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

Just now, Kayberz.5346 said:

There are plenty of ways to tune bladesworns current setup without making convoluted reworks that basically amount to "make bladesworn exactly like core warrior  but with all the bladesworn stuff added on"

Literally no one said make it like core warrior. You and the other guy is straw manning. People just want options.

[Kayberz.5346]

Just now, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Literally no one said make it like core warrior. You and the other guy is straw manning. People just want options.

Ive seen MULTIPLE  times people petitioning to:

Give bladesworn weapon swap

Give bladesworn core bursts

Make gunsaber a utility/elite skill instead

 

This all amounts to essentially making bladesworn a core warrior + more stuff, which is exactly what berserker and spellbreaker already are

 

Bladesworn is the first elite spec warrior has gotten that actually forces a different playstyle and isn't just a power crept core warrior 

 

[oscuro.9720]

8 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It's kind of funnier when we understand people here tend to complain about warrior especs because they all play the same. The moment it plays differently, it turns into "just make it the regular warrior with new stuff on top of it" 😅 

I get wanting some improvements or QoL stuff dealt with, but this one is just... oof.

 

Exactly.

But Warrior especs don’t play the same at all? Saying berserker plays like core or spell, or any of them play like any of the others is idiotic. I actually don’t see that many people complaining about Warrior because the specializations play the same, usually it’s that they all perform the same (not good). Or people will complain they fill the same role, which is very different than playing the same. 
 

However, I agree with Kayberz, there’s a variety of avenues by which bladesworn can be brought up without reinstating core bursts or weapon swap. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by oscuro.9720

[itspomf.9523]

Not going to comment on bladesworn since I really disliked the feel of it (and pretty much all of the EoD previews), but ...

... if we're getting rid of the original tradeoffs, then I certainly hope the balance and design team goes back and reinvestigates every elite spec as well.  Amping Druid pets by removing the stat debuff is huge, same as giving back distortion to Chronomancer and Mirage.  Same with taking away the toughness deficit on Berserker (which was originally not there until the rework of HoT elites).

I'd personally love to see mechanics to become more accessible feel like an evolution of the core profession, rather than a full replacement a they now seem to be.

[Broxxgar.6801]

Just try to play a condition Spellbreaker.  And them try to fight against a Condition Berseker I'm 100% conviced that SPB will win. 😂. They are the same 😎.

[Kayberz.5346]

4 minutes ago, itspomf.9523 said:

Not going to comment on bladesworn since I really disliked the feel of it (and pretty much all of the EoD previews), but ...

... if we're getting rid of the original tradeoffs, then I certainly hope the balance and design team goes back and reinvestigates every elite spec as well.  Amping Druid pets by removing the stat debuff is huge, same as giving back distortion to Chronomancer and Mirage.  Same with taking away the toughness deficit on Berserker (which was originally not there until the rework of HoT elites).

I'd personally love to see mechanics to become more accessible feel like an evolution of the core profession, rather than a full replacement a they now seem to be.

I dont think anets intention is to "remove tradeoffs", but rather to remove arbitrary stat reductions that accomplish nothing but making a specific spec weaker for no reason with zero impact on actual gameplay 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

Just now, Kayberz.5346 said:

Bladesworn is the first elite spec warrior has gotten that actually forces a different playstyle and isn't just a power crept core warrior 

Do you mean with shout heals? That's the only way it worked in competitive. You're arguing for a playstyle that didn't work so much so that they had to implement a massive bandaid in shout heals.

Wanting something isn't the same as that something working out. No one would bring up drastic changes if the espec worked on its own.

[Kayberz.5346]

7 minutes ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Do you mean with shout heals? That's the only way it worked in competitive. You're arguing for a playstyle that didn't work so much so that they had to implement a massive bandaid in shout heals.

Wanting something isn't the same as that something working out. No one would bring up drastic changes if the espec worked on its own.

Shout heals have nothing to do with bladesworns unique playstyle

 

Are you incapable of viewing bladesworns outside of the lense of the current competitive build? 

Bladesworn is one of the best dps builds in the game in pve with a unique playstyle unlike any build in the game 

Bladesworn in pvp is capable of a lot of damage in CC irrelevant of shout heals, its playstyle revolving around the use of  repeatable gunsaber ammo skills and the dragon trigger abilities is also completely unique 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Sobx.1758]

12 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

But Warrior especs don’t play the same at all? Saying berserker plays like core or spell, or any of them play like any of the others is idiotic. I actually don’t see that many people complaining about Warrior because the specializations play the same, usually it’s that they all perform the same (not good). Or people will complain they fill the same role, which is very different than playing the same. 
 

I didn't say they all play the same, I said people on this subforum complain they do. And now they want to turn bladesworn into basically core warrior with additional options.

Whether you saw people make those complaints or not, the main point remains:

12 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

However, I agree with Kayberz, there’s a variety of avenues by which bladesworn can be brought up without reinstating core bursts or weapon swap. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

1 minute ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Are you incapable of viewing bladesworns outside of the lense of the current competitive build? 

I don't play pve. Since you do, then that's your priority. That's fine. This is why they split the balance between competitive and pve. We don't have to argue since we don't even play the same game modes.

[Kayberz.5346]

Just now, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

I don't play pve. Since you do, then that's your priority. That's fine. This is why they split the balance between competitive and pve. We don't have to argue since we don't even play the same game modes.

Thats a flaw in your perspective 

 

You are too laser focused on one game mode that you would completely destroy the design of a well functioning spec in all other game modes just to turn bladesworn into a power crept core warrior in pvp

Because god forbid you have to adjust your muscle memory from playing core warrior 

[Zekent.3652]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I didn't say they all play the same, I said people on this subforum complain they do.

No, there's literally just 1 person saying that lmao

Edited September 17, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

Just now, Kayberz.5346 said:

Thats a flaw in your perspective 

 

You are too laser focused on one game mode that you would completely destroy the design of a well functioning spec in all other game modes just to turn bladesworn into a power crept core warrior in pvp

Because god forbid you have to adjust your muscle memory from playing core warrior

"Completely destroy". Sure dude. It's that dramatic 🙄. The changes being asked for is going to be the end of the world. "Power crept core warrior" sure man. More sky is falling.

" god forbid you have to adjust your muscle memory from playing core warrior" - more straw manning.

[Kayberz.5346]

4 minutes ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

"Completely destroy". Sure dude. It's that dramatic 🙄. The changes being asked for is going to be the end of the world. "Power crept core warrior" sure man. More sky is falling.

" god forbid you have to adjust your muscle memory from playing core warrior" - more straw manning.

Yeah, completely destroy

The reworks people propose like the addition of weapon swap and core bursts  or turning gunsaber into a utility kit would completely destroy current bladesworns design in pve modes, and would completely change its playstyle in pvp to just be a power crept greataxe warrior 

And that kind of a rework is not something that would be implemented with a pvp/pve split

Edited September 17, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

1 minute ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

completely destroy

smh