Updated balance suggestions for Mesmer for 4. Oct patch and after

[JazzXman.7018]

Some of you guys know that i pretty much gave up hope as one of the last, about getting good and esp skillbased balance in gw2. Esp after CmC broke his promise to read and give feedback to the several months of work from all of us including document i sent to him a long time ago and after seeing how narrowed, biased and unconstructive a lot of balance discussions in forums/discords were handled, i was done with putting effort and work during my free time into talking in detail about balance from my PoV. 

 

BUT since it seems there is some room for discussion again and stuff is happening (removing the trade off nonsense and even giving mirage its second dodge back is on the table) i did just edited my balance suggstion doc for mesmer with new hope that it at least get read by devs and maybe even considered in some parts. 

 

Keep in mind that im also only a human, so we are no gods and humans always have a bit of bias included. But there is bias and there is bias. I think when it comes to balance, there is only one form of bias allowed: the bias towards healthy, fair and esp skillbased balance. I personally am not biased toward specific classes or specs, im only heavily biased towards high skill ceiling/cap, since i get bored pretty fast when stuff is too easy to play and i prefer to be as least as possible carried by build, since winning by build means nothing to me (and since my personal fun is so heavily determinded by high skill ceiling/cap i dont run into the trap to try to claim stuff i have fun with as skillful while it isnt, the correlation doesnt work that way around for me). Everything else i try to keep as objective as possible, based on non subjective analyses driven by logic, empiric researches and facts and not just propaganda hate claims with barely any explanations or only factoid reasons added. So i always put a lot of time into getting myself informed, researching, and overthinking from different perspectives before i built my opinion. And i know i often overdo it with trying to explain my whole way of thinking and researching, often also with way too many words.  

 

So yeah hate me for the wall of text as always lul, but explaining (esp more complex topics) needs more words than just claiming. 

 

I also might dont give new and unexperienced players enough room and possibilities to grow with my balance suggestions, even tho i tried to keep that in mind (so me allowing some lower skill floor builds on each class for example), sry for that in advance. My goal is not to discourage new players but more to give them incentives to get good at the game.

 

Feel free to disagree and to add stuff you miss, since  i ofc still can be wrong or have overlooked something.

 

The here linked document also includes the link to the community document we did together longer ago in case you wanna recheck it (see last page). 

 

Link to the balance suggestion doc:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hI5r9mpx94DJEj2LoZzc0Knicqk5SLmC/view?usp=sharing

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by JazzXman.7018

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Agree with some, disagree with others especially CS.
I'll always defend CS and I know I'm biased since I was the one that gave them the idea for the stun to be on F3 only, with that said F3 was since 2012 a staple on power mesmer oneshot and only with the addiction of mirage since before the stun would work with sw ambush it became a problem. F3 stun was never a problem, it is instant? Yes, it is. It is predictable, you can bet it is.
Basilisk venom is also instant once it is on your buff bar.

[JazzXman.7018]

3 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Agree with some, disagree with others especially CS.
I'll always defend CS and I know I'm biased since I was the one that gave them the idea for the stun to be on F3 only, with that said F3 was since 2012 a staple on power mesmer oneshot and only with the addiction of mirage since before the stun would work with sw ambush it became a problem. F3 stun was never a problem, it is instant? Yes, it is. It is predictable, you can bet it is.
Basilisk venom is also instant once it is on your buff bar.

thx for reading and the feedback ❤️

 

i mean your idea back then was good since it was an improvement over the previous state because also daze mantra should have never become a stun with its instant nature, so the problem with cs trait existed long before sword ambush. 

 

basilisk needs to be casted, then has an icon in the buffbar of the thief (so its sure the next attack applies the stun) and then needs to be applied (only skill to apply it instant is steal, so often not even the application is instant). That is far from being the same than instant f3.

 

predictable is only the burst combo, not f3 itself, and sry but ppl who need a stun to hit the gs burst and need to be able to down targets with that combo already have a lot of room for improvement on power gs mes. Gs mes is a burst class but it shouldnt and doesnt need to be a non-interactive oneshot class with the active defense it has (already outside of taking inspi or chaos). 

 

lock down cc like stun, knockdown etc should rly never be instant, even immob should not be instantly applied, since even immob is way too strong preventing the 2 main defensive mechanics (movement+dodging) from working. then you have soft cc like daze/chill/cripple. While daze and chill both should only be instant applied when short duration (not longer than 1 sec is a good number). 

 

instant skills in general are only fair,healthy balanced when they are not too strong by themself. So they need to be combined with other castskills to be impactful (and then have a tell from the combo with castskills) or they have additional counterplay like daze mantra with the interrupt requirement for having big impact or they are built into a setup mechanic like shatters with clones (here important that the dmg on shatters doesnt become too high, what it can be on chrono and also other power mes builds esp. when stacking too many dmg multiplier).

Edited September 18, 2022 by JazzXman.7018

[phokus.8934]

Good thing CMC didn't read this document because most of the changes are hot garbage.  Some good ones but mostly bad.

[JazzXman.7018]

5 minutes ago, phokus.8934 said:

Good thing CMC didn't read this document because most of the changes are hot garbage.  Some good ones but mostly bad.

feel free to explain instead just claiming. my attention span can deal with more than 2 sentences 🙂

[Junkpile.7439]

This is why i try to avoid one shotting thiefs (one shotted one yesterday). They come forums and try to get me nerffed. 😎

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

6 hours ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

thx for reading and the feedback ❤️

 

i mean your idea back then was good since it was an improvement over the previous state because also daze mantra should have never become a stun with its instant nature, so the problem with cs trait existed long before sword ambush. 

 

basilisk needs to be casted, then has an icon in the buffbar of the thief (so its sure the next attack applies the stun) and then needs to be applied (only skill to apply it instant is steal, so often not even the application is instant). That is far from being the same than instant f3.

 

predictable is only the burst combo, not f3 itself, and sry but ppl who need a stun to hit the gs burst and need to be able to down targets with that combo already have a lot of room for improvement on power gs mes. Gs mes is a burst class but it shouldnt and doesnt need to be a non-interactive oneshot class with the active defense it has (already outside of taking inspi or chaos). 

 

lock down cc like stun, knockdown etc should rly never be instant, even immob should not be instantly applied, since even immob is way too strong preventing the 2 main defensive mechanics (movement+dodging) from working. then you have soft cc like daze/chill/cripple. While daze and chill both should only be instant applied when short duration (not longer than 1 sec is a good number). 

 

instant skills in general are only fair,healthy balanced when they are not too strong by themself. So they need to be combined with other castskills to be impactful (and then have a tell from the combo with castskills) or they have additional counterplay like daze mantra with the interrupt requirement for having big impact or they are built into a setup mechanic like shatters with clones (here important that the dmg on shatters doesnt become too high, what it can be on chrono and also other power mes builds esp. when stacking too many dmg multiplier).

Basilisk is insta stun too period. 

You always load up basilisk before going into combat. 

Stun only became a problem with mirage sw ambush not with MoD, heck, you only need to check when the change was made. 

As for F3 stun to hit combos being a crutch I would say MoD is more of a crutch hence why I at the time give the suggestion to change CS to only affect F3.

I would even say MoD power block combination is the one of the most unskillfull garbage in this game not because of the skill/trait themselves but because of the reward being too big since this game design is garbage that promotes spam.

Of course you would get a better reward rupting crucial skills but the fact that you get rewarded for rupting anything in this game is nuts. 

[SloRules.3560]

Hm... are these changes supposed to introduce nerfs to already underperforming class?

[JazzXman.7018]

9 hours ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

This is why i try to avoid one shotting thiefs (one shotted one yesterday). They come forums and try to get me nerffed. 😎

not sure i get you right, you think im a hidden thief main just trying to nerf a class that isnt my main and that i hate for some reasons?^^  I mean i get why you have this impression hehe 🙂 

 

26 minutes ago, SloRules.3560 said:

Hm... are these changes supposed to introduce nerfs to already underperforming class?

yes kinda. and  i rly didnt expect to get much applause posting a doc with mostly nerfs from other mes mains 🙂 thats why i used so many words to explain where im coming from in the first post here and in the doc (like the overall goal is to bring all classes down to that power and skill requirement lvl as i want mesmer to be, so mesmer will not be garbage compared to them. but i dont have the time to do it for all classes and i think its the duty of other classes mains (or devs) to make those kind of balance suggestions for their own class, esp since they have more clue about their main than i have.  so putting the doc in the right context is important.

 

5 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Basilisk is insta stun too period. 

You always load up basilisk before going into combat. 

Stun only became a problem with mirage sw ambush not with MoD, heck, you only need to check when the change was made. 

As for F3 stun to hit combos being a crutch I would say MoD is more of a crutch hence why I at the time give the suggestion to change CS to only affect F3.

I would even say MoD power block combination is the one of the most unskillfull garbage in this game not because of the skill/trait themselves but because of the reward being too big since this game design is garbage that promotes spam.

Of course you would get a better reward rupting crucial skills but the fact that you get rewarded for rupting anything in this game is nuts. 

i mean i disagree but that is fine, we can have different opinions about all that (edit: i ofc agree that MoD becoming a stun was a bigger problem than f3 being a stun but disagree to everything else, esp the comparision to basilik is lacking since you cannot just ignore half of the skills nature and additional preparations and limitations this skill has until it becomes the same as instant-f3) 🙂

a stun by itself is imo just too powerful by itself to be allowed to be instant, also a stun has a different purpose than an interupt focused cc, its a lock down cc that enables to hit follow ups, there is no need that a stun has such low counterplay as instant skills have since you dont hit a stun mainly for interrupting but for locking down. otherwise we can give warrior instant stuns too, since at least warrior is not a burst class with oneshot potential (just as thief mostly isnt).

Edited September 19, 2022 by JazzXman.7018

[Terrorhuz.4695]

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Mirage axe 3 should at least lose the retargeting

Hardest no of my life. Design of mirage traits is dog tier, design of mirage buttons is god tier. Mirage has FUN buttons. Don't touch the fun buttons. It taps into primal mesmer design (no boons, no condi spam, no extreme damage, no unblockable; just unique utility), remove that and it becomes a boring button. I don't want boring buttons. Enough of boring buttons.

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Pistol 5 has a too short casttime

I abuse the everliving kitten out of this skill, you're not wrong. Raising the cast time to 0.75s would be reasonable, but projectile should become stupidly fast, RN it doesn't hit beyond 600 range because projectile is slow enough that everyone and their mothers have time to react. Slower cast time, faster projectile, seems a healthy exchange to me.

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Signet of Illusion should be reworked into something else

SoI is problematic only with mirage and Desert Distortion, because it allows you to chain something like 10s of straight up invulnerability + evades; that without counting the other evades you can get from sword and your own dodges. Without that trait, it becomes a dog skill, and quite underpowered, if anything, due to long cast time.

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Illusionary Ambush is a very low skill ceiling utility

Illusionary ambush is a fun button. Port, ambush, detarget; once again, no boons nor conditions nor raw damage or 3 million years stuns\conditions; pure utility to create a fun button. Do not touch the fun buttons.

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Mantra of Pain should be reworked into something more defensive

I don't think it should be reworked into something defensive, but I think it should definitely be reworked. No idea how. Instacast damage is bad, maybe it should help pin down opponents? 2s cripple or 1s immobilize, I don't know (immobilize with no cast time sounds also very toxic, but the short duration could maybe make sense to let clones actually shatter on their target)

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Removing the active recharge and turn mantra into ammo instant shouts was a bit unlucky change for pvp/ wvw

100% right. Mantra change was DUMB and STUPID and S***R CERTAINLY DESIGNED THIS. We want counterplay? Give back the recharge mechanic (so people can actually punish a mesmer recharging their mantra), add a counter on the boonbar so that people can see how many charges we have. And remove the facing requirement while we're at it, but I want my recharge back, recharges were half of the mechanic from mantras.

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Pls add the mantra icon back into buffbar

Very yes.

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Higher the icd between the dazes on Mantra of Distraction

Don't think it's nearly as relevant of an issue as you make it (LoS the mantra is much more effective and easier than fake casting anyway, on top of all the other defenses being blind\stab\aegis), but whatever, I can accept it. More counterplay to the daze: you fake cast your skill with a stow, mesmer wastes Power Block on your fake cast, and before your daze is ready again, opponent can cast the healing skill for real. I don't think it's an issue, but if you really want it...

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Mirror Images should get a casttime/ animation and should be blindable.

NO. And I refuse to elaborate further.

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Portal duration goes up from 30 to 40 secs

I'll do you one better: portal stays at is it, but we get a glamour trait somewhere. And if you take the trait, portal gets 45s duration, Null Field gets my VERY FUN SUGGESTION of nullifying combo fields of your opponents, Time Warp gets 10s duration as it used to be, Veil grants 3s superspeed for fast team disengage and Feedback gets the 1% res as it does now. GIVE US THE GLAMOURS.

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chaos has too many dmg multiplier for the sustain it provides

?!? Chaos has exactly 0 damage multipliers ?!?

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Auspicious Anguish in chaosline need rework

100% agree. Rewarding you for getting CC'd is dumb. When I was playing chaos I used to purposefully walk towards downed guardians so they'd cleanse me. I currently don't know how would I provide the cleanse, however, because a trait providing 2 condi cleanse every 50s is just as bad. Cleanse needs to come back in a more active form, but I currently can't think how. Maybe from activating healing skill, I guess? They seem to have a thing for that kind of design now. But healing skill in chaos already provide Chaos Storm -which is a dumb thing IMHO, but everyone loves it for some reason...

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Prismatic Understanding need rework

On one side, I say yes. On the other side, I also say no; stealth decaps are a thing and a tactical decision you can make. Furthermore, daredevil with all the nerfs STILL hard counters any mesmer other than the stupidly bunkerish ones. I want to have a tool to disengage if I have to face one, because that kitten is still in the game and it still does nothing but grief with 5k shadowshot spam if they can port, or 5k sb2 spam if they can't.

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For Prismatic Understanding: make it give only one sec stealth in addition, no matter what stealthskill is used, and higher the boonduration as compensation. + Delete the random aegis proc

It wouldn't be much different from now, on every skill it grants 1-ish s of stealth anyway... other than Mass Invisibility. Random aegis proc is dumb, however, wouldn't mind it being removed

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Shatter Storm trait in Illusionline should lose the ammo f1

No. I have low damage already (even with assassin amulet and rune of the eagle), there is no need to lower it any further.

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Master of Fragmentation trait in Illusionline for continuum split yadda yadda

I understand why you're saying what you're saying, but CS is already counterable enough. Adding yet another barrier to the usage of a mechanic with 105s cd is just not good and I won't accept it (as if having to use it with full cooldowns to get value out of it wasn't a barrier already)

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Master of Misdirection trait in Illusionline now reduce the shatter cd for x seconds instead of %

I understand why you're saying what you're saying, but this would work on everything other than Chronomancer. You can't balance the same additive reduction to make sense both for a 10s cd skill and for a 105s cd skill, not in a trait. You just can't.

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Reorganize the offensive traitlines in a way which prevents too much passive dmg-multiplier trait stacking.

Wrong subforum, this should go in ranger's. I'm not the one dropping two 9k mauls in a row.

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Never add Confounding Suggestion (stun on f3) back ever!

Ok.

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Chronomancer should overall lose some of its dmg when getting distortion back.

Chronomancer should not get distortion back. I'll take it because it's there and I can't change it, but I do believe CS with distortion loses an important counter (can't CC\blind the mesmer). We want to give chrono the big cannon on Continuum Split, losing distortion is a fine price by me. Just give chrono some condi transfer on F2 to survive without inspiration and we're good. Damage on chrono is already way too low, if anything.

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I rly dont think Virtuoso needs Distortion (at least it should replace the current blockskill on f4 instead moving it to f5)

You're right on the money here.
Assuming we want distortion on virtuoso, Master of Fragmentation should be the way to do it; traiting your shatters will turn your channeled F4 block into a channeled F4 distortion; not a good idea to add YET ANOTHER DEFENSIVE on a class which is just already borderline impossible to kill.
I would argue, if anything, that virtuoso has way too many defensives. The problem is different: virtuoso needs a way to land its slow skills, and quickness doesn't cut it because the damage on virtuoso is bound to effects instead of animations. A good place to start would be lowering the aftercast on Psychic Force and Illusionary Wave to allow chaining attacks; normally classes can combo into their knockbacks (Counterattack Kick into Maul, Point-Blank Shot into Rapid Fire, Deflecting Shot into True Shot, Shield of Absorption into Spear of Justice, Magnetic Inversion into Radiant Arc), but mesmer knockbacks have way too big of an aftercast to do that.

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Im happy to hear a second dodge for Mirage is in work but i am rly worried that it seems to cause some trouble.

It will be just fine if we let staff be reworked by anyone other than the previous dev, which we don't need to name to avoid bans but we know who we're talking about.

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Huge rant about IH

Infinite Horizon should be baseline. IH creates fun buttons, I like fun buttons. We want a tradeoff? Mirage gets 2 clones instead of 3. Makes sense: your clones are stronger and fight with you, so you get less of them. Then we balance the whole ambush thing knowing from the get-go the amount of damage it is expected to deal, without adding the extra variance of having to balance something that can multiply your damage output by 4 -or may NOT do it if you're not running the trait.

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Reworking condi ambushes to more utility based ambushes

There are 3 condi ambushes: scepter and axe which are very cool and has been since forever (quite underpowered, if anything). The problem is -again- just staff, which has been a problematic weapon on mesmer since forever.

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Passive counterburst potential by clones during mes is stunned

Jazz definitely has a point. Not sure as to how to fix it, tho. Maybe clones activating IH while stunned will daze your clones? So they don't get to attack while you're stunned. Sounds like a sensible bandaid.

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Remove retargeting mechanic

NO. Mesmer already lost way too many unique mechanics, no need to remove even more of them. What's the problem with you and my fun buttons, STOP MESSING WITH MY FUN BUTTONS HOLY kitten. The problem with the game is that all buttons are becoming the same mudball of things with no identity, just a button to proc traits (hello Stretched Time! Hello Traversing Dusk! Hello Drachonic Echo!), stop this madnes and GIVE US FUN BUTTONS!

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Rework Signet of Illusion (or at least delete f4 reset)

Signet of illusions should be additive (which is what you proposed for the illusions trait). Use it, it refreshes 25s cd on all your shatters; your F1 and F2 cooldowns are completely refreshed, your F3 is mostly refreshed and F4 has quite a bit more to wait (and even more if you're a chronomancer). This way it's not wasted on chronomancer, but it's not a full recharge on CS either, everybody wins.

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Delete condi dmg from normal clone autoattacks

Very yes. Staff AA should be buffed big time to compensate -first, the homing properties should be back, and you should be able to cast it on allies to directly give boons to them; this would give mesmer some way to get boons without requiring an actual enemy for the first bounce, and with clones it would allow you to hit stealthed enemies, because thieves are a problem; I AA a clone, the bouncy thing goes on the thief. But the clones should lose any damage output from conditions, just as they lose their power damage. Changing for clones the damaging conditions to control conditions (randomly choose between 0.5s cripple/0.25s weakness/3s vuln) would definitely be helpful.

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Reduce mirror procs instead

Mirage Mirror is a difficult mechanic to balance. I know why they did it -they created the crystal vfx and it looked so cool they wanted a way to use it-... and I can understand it. It also creates an intended mean to play the class (along with the counterplay): with mirrors, mirage becomes a static threat haunting the same place, always moving but never too far, or they lose their defensive tool; it's an interesting thing, and you can counter it by moving away and forcing the mirage to fight in a new territory. I understand why it requires to be changed in a game mode where "defending the point is the objective", but I don't know how to change that while still using the cool crystal thing that led to the creation of the mirage mirror mechanic in the first place.

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dmg on mesmers own gs ambushes also need to be decreased

NO. GS, as a weapon, offers nothing but damage.
You don't remove the damage from a weapon which offers nothing but damage, or you'll end up with a weapon that does nothing period. Which is what we have right now, and it is becoming increasingly frustrating.

Besides, GS ambush already has 1.5s cast time, on a class with no quickess. It's already counterplayable enough; if you fail to do that, you can and should take damage.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[JazzXman.7018]

6 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Hardest no of my life. Design of mirage traits is dog tier, design of mirage buttons is god tier. Mirage has FUN buttons. Don't touch the fun buttons. It taps into primal mesmer design, remove that and it becomes a boring button. I don't want boring buttons. Enough of boring buttons.

I abuse the everliving kitten out of this skill, jazz is not wrong. Raising the cast time to 0.75s would be reasonable, but projectile should become stupidly fast, RN it doesn't hit beyond 600 range because projectile is slow enough that everyone and their mothers have time to react.

SoI is problematic only with mirage and Desert Distortion, because it allows you to chain something like 10s of straight up invulnerability + evades; that without counting the other evades you can get from sword and your own dodges. Without that trait, it becomes a dog skill, and quite underpowered if anything due to long cast time.

Illusionary ambush is a fun button. Do not touch the fun buttons.

I don't think it should be reworked into something defensive, but I think it should definitely be reworked. No idea how. Instacast damage is bad, maybe it should help pin down opponents? 2s cripple or 1s immobilize, I don't know (immobilize with no cast time sounds also very toxic, but the short duration could maybe make sense to let clones actually shatter on their target)

100% right. Mantra change was DUMB and STUPID and S***R CERTAINLY DESIGNED THIS. Give back the recharge mechanic, add a counter on the boonbar so that people can see how many charges we have if we want counterplay. And remove the facing requirement while we're at it, but I want my recharge back, recharges were half of the mechanic from mantras.

Very yes.

Don't think it's nearly as relevant of an issue as you make it (LoS the mantra is much more effective and easier than fake casting anyway), but whatever, I can accept it. More counterplay to the daze: you fake cast your skill with a stow, mesmer wastes Power Block on your fake cast, and before your daze is ready again, opponent can cast the healing skill for real. If you really want it...

NO. And I refuse to elaborate further.

I'll do you one better: portal stays at is it, but we get a glamour trait somewhere. And if you take the trait, portal gets 45s duration, Null Field gets my VERY FUN SUGGESTION of nullifying combo fields of your opponents, Time Warp gets 10s duration as it used to be, Veil grants 3s superspeed for fast team disengage and Feedback gets the 1% res as it does now. GIVE US THE GLAMOURS.

?!? Chaos has exactly 0 damage multipliers ?!?

100% agree. Rewarding you for getting CC'd is dumb. When I was playing chaos I used to purposefully walk towards downed guardians so they'd cleanse me. I currently don't know how would I provide the cleanse, however, because a trait providing 2 condi cleanse every 50s is just as bad. Cleanse needs to come back in a more active form, but I currently can't think how. Maybe from activating healing skill, I guess? They seem to have a thing for that kind of design now. But healing skill in chaos already provide Chaos Storm -which is a dumb thing IMHO, but everyone loves it...

On one side, I say yes. On the other side, I also say no; stealth decaps are a thing and a tactical decision you can make. Furthermore, daredevil with all the nerfs STILL hard counters any mesmer other than the stupidly bunkerish ones. I want to have a tool to disengage if I have to face one, because that kitten is still in the game and it still does nothing but grief with 5k shadowshot spam if they can port, or 5k sb2 spam if they can't.

It wouldn't be much different from now, on every skill it grants 1-ish s of stealth anyway... other than Mass Invisibility. Random aegis proc is dumb, however, wouldn't mind it being removed

No. I have low damage already (even with assassin amulet and rune of the eagle), there is no need to lower it any further.

I understand why you're saying what you're saying, but CS is already counterable enough. Adding yet another barrier to the usage of a mechanic with 105s cd is just not good and I won't accept it (as if having to use it with full cooldowns to get value out of it wasn't a barrier already)

I understand why you're saying what you're saying, but this would work on everything other than Chronomancer. You can't balance the same additive reduction to make sense both for a 10s cd skill and for a 105s cd skill. You just can't.

Wrong subforum, this should go in ranger's. I'm not the one dropping two 9k mauls in a row.

Ok.

Chronomancer should not get distortion back. I'll take it because it's there, but I do believe CS with distortion becomes impossible to counter for some classes (can't CC the mesmer). We want to give chrono the "big powerful skill", losing distortion is a fine price by me. Give chrono some condi transfer on F2 so it can survive without inspiration and we're good. Damage on chrono is way too low, if anything.

You're right on the money here.
Assuming we want distortion on virtuoso, Master of Fragmentation should be the way to do it; traiting your shatters will turn your channeled F4 block into a channeled F4 distortion; not a good idea to add YET ANOTHER DEFENSIVE on a class which is just already borderline impossible to kill.
I would argue, if anything, that virtuoso has way too many defensives. The problem is different: virtuoso needs a way to land its slow skills, and quickness doesn't cut it. A good place to start would be lowering the aftercast on Psychic Force and Illusionary Wave to allow chaining attacks; normally classes can combo into their knockbacks (Counterattack Kick into Maul, Point-Blank Shot into Rapid Fire, Deflecting Shot into True Shot, Shield of Absorption into Spear of Justice, Magnetic Inversion into Radiant Arc), but mesmer knockbacks have way too big of an aftercast to do that.

It will be just fine if we let staff be reworked by anyone other than the previous dev, which we don't need to name to avoid bans but we know who we're talking about.

Infinite Horizon should be baseline. IH creates fun buttons, I like fun buttons. We want a tradeoff? Mirage gets 2 clones instead of 3. Makes sense: your clones are stronger and fight with you, so you get less of them. Then we balance the whole ambush thing knowing from the get-go the amount of damage it is expected to deal, without adding the extra variance of having to balance something that can multiply your damage output by 4 -or may NOT do it if you're not running the trait.

There are 3 condi ambushes: scepter and axe which are very cool and has been since forever (quite underpowered, if anything). The problem is -again- just staff, which has been a problematic weapon on mesmer sincer forever.

Jazz definitely has a point. Not sure as to how to fix it, tho. Maybe clones activating IH while stunned will daze your clones? So they don't get to attack while you're stunned. Sounds like a sensible bandaid.

NO. Mesmer already lost way too many unique mechanics, no need to remove even more of them.

Signet of illusions should be additive (which is what you proposed for the illusions trait). Use it, your F1 and F2 cooldowns are completely refreshed, your F3 is mostly refreshed and F4 has quite a bit more to wait.

Very yes. Staff AA should be buffed big time to compensate -first, the homing properties should be back, and second you should be able to cast it on allies to directly give boons to them; this would give mesmer some way to get boons without having an actual enemy in front of you, and with clones it would allow you to hit stealthed enemies, because thieves are a problem; I AA a clone, the bouncy thing goes on the thief. But the clones should lose any damage output from conditions, just as they lose their power damage. Changing for clones the damaging conditions to control conditions (randomly choose between 0.5s cripple/0.25s weakness/3s vuln) would definitely be helpful.

Mirage Mirror is a difficult mechanic to balance. I know why they did it -they created the crystal effect and it looked so cool they wanted a way to use it-... and I can understand it. It also creates an intended mean to play the class (along with the counterplay): with mirrors, mirage becomes a static threat that always linger around the same place, always moving but never too far, or they lose their defensive tool; it's an interesting thing, and you can counter it by moving far. I understand why it should be changed on a game mode where "defending the point is the objective", but I don't know how to change that while still using the cool crystal thing that led to the creation of mirage mirrors in the first place.

NO. GS, as a weapon, offers nothing but damage.
You don't remove the damage from a weapon which offers nothing but damage, or you'll end up with a weapon that does nothing period. Which is what we have right now, and it is becoming increasingly frustrating.

Besides, GS ambush already has 1.5s cast time, on a class with no quickess. It's already counterplayable enough; if you fail to do that, you can and should take damage.

great feedback, thanks for taking the time. i will react to it step by step as soon as i have the time (lol). but let me say already that i rly like that you know when you are more about fun than actual balance, when you are subjective and do not explain why. i rly can accept this then. you care way more for fun in terms of options than i do, so you have different opinions about some of my suggestions and that is totally fine, since you just come from a different perspective/ mindset. 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

3 minutes ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

stuff

Some things are a matter of personal opinion. I can't elaborate on mirror images getting a cast time, I just disagree because of different values; I value being able to use quick reflexes to seize an opportunity real fast when it arises (oh, you're exposed rn? mirror images into instant shatter, BE SAD!), you think this kind of gameplay is more toxic and less counterplayable because it requires no setup, which is logically sound from the assumptions you make but these are not the same ones I have; I'd argue staying on the lookout for the opportunity and waiting to use my mirror images at the right moment IS the setup, but that would bring us nowhere. It's a matter of subjectivity, I like a thing and you don't -or viceversa-, on that we'll agree to disagree.

About the fun buttons, however, it's really one of the things I care about. This is a game, games are supposed to be fun.
And in this game I do two things: I move around and I press buttons. If these buttons are not fun\unique, half of what I do in the game is lost. It's fundamental for these buttons to be impactful, have a purpose and some their own strong identity. Portal was fun, back then, because it was impactful and unique; I want every mesmer skill to have this level of uniqueness, and we nerf some numbers if they become too strong. But mesmer is all about unique utilities (illusion of life, veil, superbe boonrip, instacast daze, instacast feedback, blinks all over the place, signet of humility, invulnerability which is NOT channeled to allow tactical resses\stomps), and I want that kind of identity to be present in everything a mesmer does.

[JazzXman.7018]

8 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Some things are a matter of personal opinion. I can't elaborate on mirror images getting a cast time, I just disagree because of different values; I value being able to use quick reflexes to seize an opportunity real fast when it arises (oh, you're exposed rn? mirror images into instant shatter, BE SAD!), you think this kind of gameplay is more toxic and less counterplayable because it requires no setup, which is logically sound from the assumptions you make but these are not the same ones I have; I'd argue staying on the lookout for the opportunity and waiting to use my mirror images at the right moment IS the setup, but that would bring us nowhere. It's a matter of subjectivity, I like a thing and you don't -or viceversa-, on that we'll agree to disagree.

About the fun buttons, however, it's really one of the things I care about. This is a game, games are supposed to be fun.
And in this game I do two things: I move around and I press buttons. If these buttons are not fun\unique, half of what I do in the game is lost. It's fundamental for these buttons to be impactful, have a purpose and some their own strong identity. Portal was fun, back then, because it was impactful and unique; I want every mesmer skill to have this level of uniqueness, and we nerf some numbers if they become too strong. But mesmer is all about unique utilities (illusion of life, veil, superbe boonrip, instacast daze, instacast feedback, blinks all over the place, signet of humility, invulnerability which is NOT channeled to allow tactical resses\stomps), and I want that kind of identity to be present in everything a mesmer does.

ye i think we just disagree on mirror images also i didnt say it has no counterplay bc it doesnt need setup. it sure can have setup. it has no counterplay becasue it provides instant dmg (and even high one) together with instant shatters. that instant shatters can be randomly avoided or that you still can play smart and outwait until your enemy doesnt have defense up doesnt give it counterplay by default. 

 

yes i agree that mesmer should have unique stuff but that stuff needs to be balanced and fair in power lvl and counterplayability otherwise it is at least not fun for me anymore. unique or not. thats where we have different priorities. but let me get some food before i answer your longer feedback step by step im starving ❤️

[Yoci.2481]

I see what you want to do with these changes and in principal I agree with them, or most of them at least. But to me they appear to be targeted at a game that is not GW2 in 2022. What I mean by that is in order for many of these changes to make sense we need to bring down a lot of other classes first. Mesmer is already one of the most sub-meta professions in competitive game modes, and many of those changes are pretty hard hits. If you apply these changes to Mesmer to the game as it is right now Mesmer will be dead. That being said yes I believe if you were put in charge of GW2 balance I believe the result would be much better than what we have now.

[SloRules.3560]

I have no idea how to do a proper repply to 1 part of message...

 

Ok, i see what you want to do with this. First paragraph kinda explains it.

 

Still you are only considering small scale in this. You mention chaos and inspiration, which are totally unusable atm in group fights for instance, but easy mode in small scale. Than i am of oppinion those need to be reworked.

 

For virtuoso you mention it's easy, but for groups it's increadibly difficult dps spec, which again requires rethinking of how things work.

 

Nerfing GS ambush removes only option thst mirage has as a dps spec in groups. Although i do not like that skill one bit.

 

Sorry, i'm on phone and just rambling a bit. I am just of opinion that mesmer in it's current state is a broken class that needs a major balance pass on many levels.

 

While they attempt stuff again and again, they always seem to half kitten it.

[JazzXman.7018]

13 minutes ago, SloRules.3560 said:

I have no idea how to do a proper repply to 1 part of message...

 

Ok, i see what you want to do with this. First paragraph kinda explains it.

 

Still you are only considering small scale in this. You mention chaos and inspiration, which are totally unusable atm in group fights for instance, but easy mode in small scale. Than i am of oppinion those need to be reworked.

 

For virtuoso you mention it's easy, but for groups it's increadibly difficult dps spec, which again requires rethinking of how things work.

 

Nerfing GS ambush removes only option thst mirage has as a dps spec in groups. Although i do not like that skill one bit.

 

Sorry, i'm on phone and just rambling a bit. I am just of opinion that mesmer in it's current state is a broken class that needs a major balance pass on many levels.

 

While they attempt stuff again and again, they always seem to half kitten it.

im not sure are you talking about pve? since my suggestions are pvp/wvw focused only. pve you always can easy compensate with higher dmg numbers in case some mechanical changes in pvp decrease the dmg of a spec. 

 

and yes true esp inspiration doesnt excel in larger fights like tf in conquest since at least with the common trait choices it mostly only offers mistake friendly selfsustain. inspi is strong in carrying the player but not good in carrying the team in conquest. but that doesnt rly matter since you have small scale fights happening all over the place and things should be balanced also in that regard since they automatically will not be op in all other scenarios then.  you can see that point well in 2v2/3v3 almost having the same balance issues with the same things. the only difference is that conquest forgives opness a bit more since you can outrotate stuff what you cant do in 2v2/1v1/3v3 modes. 

 

while chaosline is an extremely sleeper for tfs. the chaos sage staff mirage build i played pre eod was an excellent tf build, had a lot of peel and utlity while also getting up to 500k dmg. it was a better tf build than side noder actually , while you also could win vs core necro meta and survive +1s with it without abusing inspi. it won 2v2 vs core necros and could neutralize necros in tf very well. no clue why no one else ever played that build competitive since it could and did carry hard. and compared to the core necro counterpick inspi/chaos zerker build it was way more useful in tfs. i guess the reason was that you actually need to be good at the necro mu without inspi while with inspi you could win that mu going afk, also you needed way longer to kill the necro with the inspi build.

[SloRules.3560]

I'm talking about 15v15 and up in wvw.

[JazzXman.7018]

47 minutes ago, Yoci.2481 said:

I see what you want to do with these changes and in principal I agree with them, or most of them at least. But to me they appear to be targeted at a game that is not GW2 in 2022. What I mean by that is in order for many of these changes to make sense we need to bring down a lot of other classes first. Mesmer is already one of the most sub-meta professions in competitive game modes, and many of those changes are pretty hard hits. If you apply these changes to Mesmer to the game as it is right now Mesmer will be dead. That being said yes I believe if you were put in charge of GW2 balance I believe the result would be much better than what we have now.

yes you exactly got the point. the document is the power and skill requirement lvl i wanna have in the game over all classes. so ofc you would not decrease mesmers dmg  as long as sustain is so heavily powercreeped still. only chrono even in current state has too much dmg while without distort too  less active defense options so it is doomed to be a non reactive/ non interactive dmg/cc spam bot or oneshot meme.

 

chrono is in a state currently where i simply dont have fun playing it, at least not with illusion line, ofc even less with inspi, since its just not skillful. its hard to survive on (withotu inspi)  it but hard doesnt necessary mean skillful to play overall. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by JazzXman.7018

[JazzXman.7018]

3 minutes ago, SloRules.3560 said:

I'm talking about 15v15 and up in wvw.

ah ok, ye tbh im not rly into gvg. but they can split numbers also between wvw and pvp tho. shouldnt be a problem to compensate in wvw or in specific guild arenas with different balance.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

2 hours ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

i mean i disagree but that is fine, we can have different opinions about all that (edit: i ofc agree that MoD becoming a stun was a bigger problem than f3 being a stun but disagree to everything else, esp the comparision to basilik is lacking since you cannot just ignore half of the skills nature and additional preparations and limitations this skill has until it becomes the same as instant-f3) 🙂

a stun by itself is imo just too powerful by itself to be allowed to be instant, also a stun has a different purpose than an interupt focused cc, its a lock down cc that enables to hit follow ups, there is no need that a stun has such low counterplay as instant skills have since you dont hit a stun mainly for interrupting but for locking down. otherwise we can give warrior instant stuns too, since at least warrior is not a burst class with oneshot potential (just as thief mostly isnt).

But basilik also allows for instant stun, it is prepared before going to a fight not in the middle of a fight and thief has huge instagib potential and even easier than power mesmer.
Concussion shot is 1/4 which is unavoidable, yeah it has the side or back gimmicky but you can put something like that into CS for all I care.
So CS wasn't out of the line.

[SloRules.3560]

21 minutes ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

ah ok, ye tbh im not rly into gvg. but they can split numbers also between wvw and pvp tho. shouldnt be a problem to compensate in wvw or in specific guild arenas with different balance.

But wvw is not pve, you can't compensate with numbers in a lot of areas.

[JazzXman.7018]

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Hardest no of my life. Design of mirage traits is dog tier, design of mirage buttons is god tier. Mirage has FUN buttons. Don't touch the fun buttons. It taps into primal mesmer design (no boons, no condi spam, no extreme damage, no unblockable; just unique utility), remove that and it becomes a boring button. I don't want boring buttons. Enough of boring buttons.

i think mirage has enough unique stuff to differ from core, retargeting mechanic is not needed for it. and imo its just an unhealthy mechanic. also you still get the port for you and clones, you still get the dmg and the evade. axe 3 would feel the same from the mesmers pov in terms of flow, shouldnt rly be less fun just better balanced. axe 3 is rly power creeped atm.

 

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I abuse the everliving kitten out of this skill, you're not wrong. Raising the cast time to 0.75s would be reasonable, but projectile should become stupidly fast, RN it doesn't hit beyond 600 range because projectile is slow enough that everyone and their mothers have time to react. Slower cast time, faster projectile, seems a healthy exchange to me.

yes i actually wanted to add the faster projectile speed but forgot. indeed higher casttime but faster projectile speed as compensation is what i wanted to say! also pls fix projectile bugs, its just stupid to release a full projectile based mesmer spec with virtu without even fixing a single bug before. 

 

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

SoI is problematic only with mirage and Desert Distortion, because it allows you to chain something like 10s of straight up invulnerability + evades; that without counting the other evades you can get from sword and your own dodges. Without that trait, it becomes a dog skill, and quite underpowered, if anything, due to long cast time.

here i disagree, i think resetting f4 is also too strong on core or any spec. instant shatters are a strong mechanic you rly need to carefully keep them in check in terms of cd reduction (esp distort) and in terms of dmg.  ofc mirage doubles the problem with that signet. but even tho i would rework desert distortion trait on mirgae i still would delete f4 reset from signet, what shows you that i see it as a general problem. actually i would rework the signet into something else since shatter basics are hard to balance when you have such strong utilities or traits reducing cds super hard or buffing dmg too much.

 

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Illusionary ambush is a fun button. Port, ambush, detarget; once again, no boons nor conditions nor raw damage or 3 million years stuns\conditions; pure utility to create a fun button. Do not touch the fun buttons.

its tons of dmg, even wihtout any clone up together with superior complex trait you half hp everything that isnt semi bunker with just one gs ambush from mesmer alone atm. ofc the problems become less when you balance gs ambush dmg on mesmer and clones as i suggested in the 2 dodge mirage part, then it will be more of an utility skill and maybe not rly a problem anymore but then i still would delete retargeting while keeping everything else. the skill  would feel the same from mesmer pov just less broken and less annyoing for the enemy.

 

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I don't think it should be reworked into something defensive, but I think it should definitely be reworked. No idea how. Instacast damage is bad, maybe it should help pin down opponents? 2s cripple or 1s immobilize, I don't know (immobilize with no cast time sounds also very toxic, but the short duration could maybe make sense to let clones actually shatter on their target)

kinda confusing that you get that instant dmg is bad when we talk about pain mantra but not when we talk about mirror images^^

 

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I'll do you one better: portal stays at is it, but we get a glamour trait somewhere. And if you take the trait, portal gets 45s duration, Null Field gets my VERY FUN SUGGESTION of nullifying combo fields of your opponents, Time Warp gets 10s duration as it used to be, Veil grants 3s superspeed for fast team disengage and Feedback gets the 1% res as it does now. GIVE US THE GLAMOURS.

glamour trait in illusions instead the f1 ammo was one of my suggstions^^

 

i make a second post with the other points since forum starts bugging and i cant quote you anymore somehow

 

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by JazzXman.7018

[JazzXman.7018]

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

?!? Chaos has exactly 0 damage multipliers ?!?

with the last buffs to chaosline they added an armada of condi dmg multiplier synergy to that traitline. illusionary membrane, chaotic potency and chaotic persistence increase your condi dmg so hard that i could do 500k+dmg in scrims/ats vs good teams (pre eod a good number even for a pure dmg build in tf) and that was effective dmg not trying to get top dmg by casting at a wall without killing anything. that is just too much for a build that has such insane sustain from chaosline.

 

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

On one side, I say yes. On the other side, I also say no; stealth decaps are a thing and a tactical decision you can make. Furthermore, daredevil with all the nerfs STILL hard counters any mesmer other than the stupidly bunkerish ones. I want to have a tool to disengage if I have to face one, because that kitten is still in the game and it still does nothing but grief with 5k shadowshot spam if they can port, or 5k sb2 spam if they can't.

It wouldn't be much different from now, on every skill it grants 1-ish s of stealth anyway... other than Mass Invisibility. Random aegis proc is dumb, however, wouldn't mind it being removed

you have already more than enough stealth access even without pu to deal with thiefs in conquest matches. so ye remove stealth-gain completely from that trait and just give longer boonduration in compensation.

 

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

No. I have low damage already (even with assassin amulet and rune of the eagle), there is no need to lower it any further.

I understand why you're saying what you're saying, but CS is already counterable enough. Adding yet another barrier to the usage of a mechanic with 105s cd is just not good and I won't accept it (as if having to use it with full cooldowns to get value out of it wasn't a barrier already)

where has chrono low dmg?^^ actually chrono is the only spec i would reduce dmg a bit even under current circumstances.

as for the higher base duration in illusions for my taste it just makes cs usage too easy, like every newbie can get value out of cs with that basic duration without the need to get clones up. with clones you even run out of skills you can braindead spam during running cs since the duration becomes that long. i simply cant find fun with such easy stuff. but that is just my opinion. i think its too easy and too spammy to be healthy for the game. 

 

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I understand why you're saying what you're saying, but this would work on everything other than Chronomancer. You can't balance the same additive reduction to make sense both for a 10s cd skill and for a 105s cd skill, not in a trait. You just can't

it was esp directed towards chrono (and ofc distortion, for the same reasons i dislike signet of illusion) so that illusion traitline isnt that mandatory for chrono anymore. i in general would prefer to give cs a way lower cd but keep the base duration and per clone exta duration way lower. so you can use it more often but the usage is not as noobfriendly since you have to get clones up before to have a good duration. so even with max clones you would need to decide what skills you wanna use during cs since the max duration is also not as long anymore instead of just facerolling over the whole skillbar every 105 secs as it is now.

Edited September 19, 2022 by JazzXman.7018

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Quote

kinda confusing that you get that instant dmg is bad when we talk about pain mantra but not when we talk about mirror images^^

Because in one case there IS a tell: I'm a shattering mesmer on melee range, and the counterplay is not coming melee unless you have a defensive (full counter on spellbreaker works WONDERS for this). For mantra is just press button to do free damage whatever the range.

[JazzXman.7018]

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Wrong subforum, this should go in ranger's. I'm not the one dropping two 9k mauls in a row.

not the wrong subforum but that is something should be posted in all subforums indeed and also should get some more !!! added for other classes i agree. but as said i only do it for mesmer that is enough time investment since i dont get paid for that work^^ 

 

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Chronomancer should not get distortion back. I'll take it because it's there and I can't change it, but I do believe CS with distortion loses an important counter (can't CC\blind the mesmer). We want to give chrono the big cannon on Continuum Split, losing distortion is a fine price by me. Just give chrono some condi transfer on F2 to survive without inspiration and we're good. Damage on chrono is already way too low, if anything.

the problem with no distortion on chrono is, that it brings chrono out of the maximum skillful balance in terms of sustain but not in the too much sustain (bunker) direction but into the too less to be able to join interactive fights direction. and with this too low amount of basic active sustain you need to compensate with way too high dmg so chrono can do stuff without being interactive. so chrono is out of skillful balance in both ways currently. it has too less active defensive outplay and counter moves/tools and for that needs an unhealthy amount of non interactive cc or /and stupidly high oneshot meme dmg spam. also bunker chrono is a problem on the horizon with getting distort back but that is not the problem of distortion but a problem of chaos and inspi traitline. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

but mesmer knockbacks have way too big of an aftercast to do that.

yep im with you here

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Infinite Horizon should be baseline. IH creates fun buttons, I like fun buttons. We want a tradeoff? Mirage gets 2 clones instead of 3. Makes sense: your clones are stronger and fight with you, so you get less of them. Then we balance the whole ambush thing knowing from the get-go the amount of damage it is expected to deal, without adding the extra variance of having to balance something that can multiply your damage output by 4 -or may NOT do it if you're not running the trait.

There are 3 condi ambushes: scepter and axe which are very cool and has been since forever (quite underpowered, if anything). The problem is -again- just staff, which has been a problematic weapon on mesmer since forever.

no the biggest problem  for devs was mc and its instant nature (cover casting, dodging while being stunned) so they reduced the dodge bar in hope that reduce the defensive dodge uptime. what it actually doesnt rly do that much. the trick to reduce defensive dodge uptime on mirage without contradicting the basic dodge mechanic just as the mirage ambush/ih mechanic is to make sure mirage lit needs to dodge PURE OFFENSIVE to have enough offensive impact. only utilitybased ambushes can do that. ambushes which are mostly or even purely about the direct dmg (no matter if condi or power dmg) will never reach that goal since dmg doesnt rly need to be timed as hard as utiltiy effects, so the ambush design is the problem not a specific weapon. ambushes with the main reward of applying direct dmg will always support more passive ambush spam after pure defensive dodges. that is also why gs ambush from mesmer itself needs a bit of dmg reduction. since the direct dmg on gs ambush is still a bit too high value so you get too much reward out of dodging only defensive and get some more passive power dmg as a side effect. but you want that the mirage player needs to think tactically and have a harder decision making about when to dodge offensive/ defensive to maximise its offensive impact by a active,  tactical aka skillful outplay move with utilitybased ambushes.. 

 

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Jazz definitely has a point. Not sure as to how to fix it, tho. Maybe clones activating IH while stunned will daze your clones? So they don't get to attack while you're stunned. Sounds like a sensible bandaid.

that is not needed when Ih is a pure utility trait so you are not counterbursting with clone dmg while mesmer is stunned bc clones dont have any dmg anymore, neither on their normal autoattack nor on their ambush attacks. and the bit of utiilty (even the short daze) isnt a killer so is an acceptable reward for traiting into ih. sure not broken anymore.

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Signet of illusions should be additive (which is what you proposed for the illusions trait). Use it, it refreshes 25s cd on all your shatters; your F1 and F2 cooldowns are completely refreshed, your F3 is mostly refreshed and F4 has quite a bit more to wait (and even more if you're a chronomancer). This way it's not wasted on chronomancer, but it's not a full recharge on CS either, everybody wins.

that makes signet even less tactical since you cant even time it when you need a specific shatter back. you will mostly spam it on cd for the cd reduction as long as you have most shatters on cd and thats it. i rly think that signet just needs a complete rework. it could become a more teamsupportish nature over just some selfish selfbuff for the mesmer. just as i would like to see inspi becoming more of an offensive teamsupport traitline (means not healing support like guard to enable more facetanking) over just selfish selfsustain for the mesmer. also Blurred Inscriptions could be reworked into giving better teamsupport on signet activation instead that stupid invuln spam. btw i gave chrono condi remove on illusion major gm trait instead higher cs duration, i think that should solve chrono problems with condis when using cs.

 

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Very yes. Staff AA should be buffed big time to compensate -first, the homing properties should be back, and you should be able to cast it on allies to directly give boons to them; this would give mesmer some way to get boons without requiring an actual enemy for the first bounce, and with clones it would allow you to hit stealthed enemies, because thieves are a problem; I AA a clone, the bouncy thing goes on the thief. But the clones should lose any damage output from conditions, just as they lose their power damage. Changing for clones the damaging conditions to control conditions (randomly choose between 0.5s cripple/0.25s weakness/3s vuln) would definitely be helpful.

i mean when you started the cast before thief went into stealth it should hit him

 

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Mirage Mirror is a difficult mechanic to balance. I know why they did it -they created the crystal vfx and it looked so cool they wanted a way to use it-... and I can understand it. It also creates an intended mean to play the class (along with the counterplay): with mirrors, mirage becomes a static threat haunting the same place, always moving but never too far, or they lose their defensive tool; it's an interesting thing, and you can counter it by moving away and forcing the mirage to fight in a new territory. I understand why it requires to be changed in a game mode where "defending the point is the objective", but I don't know how to change that while still using the cool crystal thing that led to the creation of the mirage mirror mechanic in the first place.

they dont need to delete the mechanic completely just reduce the mirror production as suggested. there are different ways to do that. 

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

NO. GS, as a weapon, offers nothing but damage.
You don't remove the damage from a weapon which offers nothing but damage, or you'll end up with a weapon that does nothing period. Which is what we have right now, and it is becoming increasingly frustrating.

Besides, GS ambush already has 1.5s cast time, on a class with no quickess. It's already counterplayable enough; if you fail to do that, you can and should take damage.

i dont touch gs itself i only touch the ambushes. the ambush is more part of the mirage mechanic than it is part from gs. there is no reason that mirage is a core on steroids by having additional easy applied direct dmg on gs ambush that doesnt even require tactical timing but is just dodge+1 spam. gs does the same dmg on mirage than on core and you give mirage the ability to buff that dmg by vuln/might when using/sacrificing dodges offensive to prepare a gs burst combo. its not needed that the ambush has insane direct dmg itself. bc just as already explained, when direct dmg is the main reward on ambushes they dont require timing that is different to pure defensive dodges. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by JazzXman.7018