Nerfing the Power Mechanist? Here's A Practical Reason Not Too.

[zeyeti.8347]

13 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

Y'know, everyone complaining about mechanist needs to see some comments from the other side.  These are taken from reddit comments:
 

 

I get the feeling that streamers and posters with an agenda are viewing top-geared mechanist builds as the standard, when that's clearly not the case.  When you have some posters running rampant crying that "Mechanist autoattack is doing 36k DPS!", while the vast majority of actual players aren't even getting half of that while obviously working in more than just AA spam, it creates a false narrative, and these people scream the loudest on the forums in order to get their way, where the devs and reps see this as valid feedback.

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease", as the old saying goes, doesn't really apply when the wheel isn't squeaking nearly as much as the neighbor is claiming.

Yes ofc if you run minstrel build you cant reach 36 k thats obvious ty captain obvious . Point is in pve open world where everything is cute and rabbits and poneys , you will not ever see the difference because the time your mech aim at a trash mob your pew pew rifle already made it a bloody puddle 3 times , done some maths , the mech (the robot not the player) will loose aproximattively 30% crit. damage and on regular builds (exotic or acsended zerk) lowering the crit damage who is +- 230 % with fury , it means your mech will still be at 190-200% crit. damage , question ? If no one talked about this nerf would ever see the difference , i dont think .

People on reddit who complain not reaching 36k are solo players ofc they are not reaching those numbers , they have not 25 might , perma fury etc etc... those numbers are done on 5-10 man instanced endgame where you have supports giving all the juicy boons. 

But i have a great news for you , no one solo is able to reach 36k playing solo (only vindicator dodging and killing a neutral rabbit , or touching 5 mobs at same time) , and if you are not top geared , how do you expect reaching those numbers with green stuff ... Ofc this is done on top geared players (skilled ? should say lazy like i am)

36k is mech with two hands , 32 k is with one hand and 28k is afk toilet . Want some proof ? there you go -->

Was able to make a delicious irish coffee while i was doing that , writing has no data or proof , here is data !!! If i can achieve that afk , i am able to achieve that in a raid boss encounter . 

Failrly good point is Catalyst was doing 45 k on a very hard rotation , and catalyst stacked together with full dps stuff could maintain might and quickness , it was nerfed to the ground cause this class was played by 0,1% of the player at this level , so why not nerfing something that 33% of the player choose for endgame and that have great mobilty , cc , some boons share , and perform very well with minimum effort ? We have 9 classes each with 3 elite specs that mean 27 e-specs to choose , so why is one of them played by 33% of the players in endgame ? Dont tell me that 33% of the people in gw 2 has disabilities .... thats rude ! and is also a lazy excuse !

Edited September 27, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[draxynnic.3719]

22 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

People on reddit who complain not reaching 36k are solo players ofc they are not reaching those numbers , they have not 25 might , perma fury etc etc... those numbers are done on 5-10 man instanced endgame where you have supports giving all the juicy boons. 

 

Yeah, when I ran the test myself, the difference between just having the boons and conditions that the rifle mechanist produced itself, versus having all the boons on me and all the conditions on the golem, was to literally double the damage. So a 36k build (the actual benchmark is closer to 38k...) is not going to be reaching 20k if you're running around on your own.

But this statement applies to any build who can't self-produce quickness, full Might stacks, full Vulnerability stacks on their target, full Fury uptime, etc, etc. Even getting close to 20k is a lot of damage when running solo (and not benefiting from jade bot protocols). Heck, 10k is a lot of damage for most of open world.

[Lynx.9058]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Yes ofc if you run minstrel build you cant reach 36 k thats obvious ty captain obvious . Point is in pve open world where everything is cute and rabbits and poneys , you will not ever see the difference because the time your mech aim at a trash mob your pew pew rifle already made it a bloody puddle 3 times , done some maths , the mech (the robot not the player) will loose aproximattively 30% crit. damage and on regular builds (exotic or acsended zerk) lowering the crit damage who is +- 230 % with fury , it means your mech will still be at 190-200% crit. damage , question ? If no one talked about this nerf would ever see the difference , i dont think .

People on reddit who complain not reaching 36k are solo players ofc they are not reaching those numbers , they have not 25 might , perma fury etc etc... those numbers are done on 5-10 man instanced endgame where you have supports giving all the juicy boons. 

But i have a great news for you , no one solo is able to reach 36k playing solo (only vindicator dodging and killing a neutral rabbit , or touching 5 mobs at same time) , and if you are not top geared , how do you expect reaching those numbers with green stuff ... Ofc this is done on top geared players (skilled ? should say lazy like i am)

36k is mech with two hands , 32 k is with one hand and 28k is afk toilet . Want some proof ? there you go -->

Was able to make a delicious irish coffee while i was doing that , writing has no data or proof , here is data !!! If i can achieve that afk , i am able to achieve that in a raid boss encounter . 

Failrly good point is Catalyst was doing 45 k on a very hard rotation , and catalyst stacked together with full dps stuff could maintain might and quickness , it was nerfed to the ground cause this class was played by 0,1% of the player at this level , so why not nerfing something that 33% of the player choose for endgame and that have great mobilty , cc , some boons share , and perform very well with minimum effort ? We have 9 classes each with 3 elite specs that mean 27 e-specs to choose , so why is one of them played by 33% of the players in endgame ? Dont tell me that 33% of the people in gw 2 has disabilities .... thats rude ! and is also a lazy excuse !

wow, you killed a target that doesn't fight back.  That's not data, that's intentionally skewing actual performance to push an agenda.

 

[zeyeti.8347]

17 minutes ago, Lynx.9058 said:

wow, you killed a target that doesn't fight back.  That's not data, that's intentionally skewing actual performance to push an agenda.

Want me to show you some endgame content made with pugs or even with guildmember ? and i say again , because you obviously just look at the video part (cant blame you when i see a text that long i usually skip half of it too), thats made afk , so repeat the same process in actual content is the same , you just have to hover a bit to move away from mechanics , but this dps can be accomplish with 5 apm (action per minute) on a raidboss ... or rabbits in open world. Thaths the issue , mech being easy to play is not the issue , is the damage it does with 0 effort , just try accomplish the same dps as catalyst and show me a video , i am waiting ... and dont send me a video of snowcrow benchmarks i know all of those by heart , myblastareawesome represent 0,0001% of the player super skilled base.  

And i dont understand why casual players are complaining about dps loss , cause the nerf is all about dps , no longer cooldowns , no change in the rifle , just numbers ....  , they are usually the one who say 'dps does not matter' but in open world it matters ? dont make me laugh....

Edited September 27, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Ashen.2907]

15 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

Y'know, everyone complaining about mechanist needs to see some comments from the other side.  These are taken from reddit comments:
 

 

I get the feeling that streamers and posters with an agenda are viewing top-geared mechanist builds as the standard, when that's clearly not the case.  When you have some posters running rampant crying that "Mechanist autoattack is doing 36k DPS!", while the vast majority of actual players aren't even getting half of that while obviously working in more than just AA spam, it creates a false narrative, and these people scream the loudest on the forums in order to get their way, where the devs and reps see this as valid feedback.

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease", as the old saying goes, doesn't really apply when the wheel isn't squeaking nearly as much as the neighbor is claiming.

I loaded up a mech power rifle build on my engie but took off all armor and all trinkets and made sure that I had no damage increasing food buffs. The only piece of gear I had equipped was an ascended berzerker rifle because that is all I had.

 

Final Golem DPS: 6.942k

 

Those reddit posts you keep quoting are either lying or are actively choosing to not attack for extended periods.

[zeyeti.8347]

7 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I loaded up a mech power rifle build on my engie but took off all armor and all trinkets and made sure that I had no damage increasing food buffs. The only piece of gear I had equipped was an ascended berzerker rifle because that is all I had.

 

Final Golem DPS: 6.942k

 

Those reddit posts you keep quoting are either lying or are actively choosing to not attack for extended periods.

try only with your mech and dont do a single attack just let the robot attack , it's 12k damage , a pet doing 12 k damage , thats why casual players like it , they do 15 k and are like "hey i am pretty high in deeps boya !!" no! you do 3 k damage , 75% of your damage come from your robot .... with 0 input from you , thats class is like you are the boss and you overexploit a poor thing doing all your job and you get the credit for it !

Edited September 27, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Ashen.2907]

6 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I loaded up a mech power rifle build on my engie but took off all armor and all trinkets and made sure that I had no damage increasing food buffs. The only piece of gear I had equipped was an ascended berzerker rifle because that is all I had.

 

Final Golem DPS: 6.942k

 

Those reddit posts you keep quoting are either lying or are actively choosing to not attack for extended periods.

Next step in the test. I replaced my ascended rifle with one of masterwork (green) tier. The new rifle has no sigils 

Final DPS: 6.016k.

No armor, no backpack, no trinkets, no damage food buffs, only  a green rifle without sigils.

[Ashen.2907]

2 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

try only with your mech and dont do a single attack just let the robot attack , it's 12k damage , a pet doing 12 k damage , thats why casual players like it , they do 15 k and are like "hey i am pretty high in deeps boya !!" no! you do 3 k damage , 75ù of your damage come from your robot ....

THe person I responded to quoted reddit posts where the poster was attacking along with his mech and managing 2k-4k. I just wanted to show that those numbers are not physically possible.

[zeyeti.8347]

2 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Next step in the test. I replaced my ascended rifle with one of masterwork (green) tier. The new rifle has no sigils 

Final DPS: 6.016k.

No armor, no backpack, no trinkets, no damage food buffs, only  a green rifle without sigils.

What else to say 😆

[Ashen.2907]

16 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Next step in the test. I replaced my ascended rifle with one of masterwork (green) tier. The new rifle has no sigils 

Final DPS: 6.016k.

No armor, no backpack, no trinkets, no damage food buffs, only  a green rifle without sigils.

Final Step in the test:

I removed the rifle entirely. Just the mech, throw mine, and the elite signet. No weapon skills at all.

Completely naked, no weapon, no trinkets, no damage food buff, nothing.

Finally managed to get down into the low end of what was being claimed in the quoted reddit post

2.253k DPS

Again, no gear of any sort. No weapon skills, no food buffs, absolutely nothing but an elite skill, a single damaging utility skill, and the mech's attacks and it puts me in the same range as what is being claimed as representative of mech build capabilities.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Here's a radical idea.  Buff weapons rather than specific mechanics or traits.  That way, anyone using the weapon gets the benefit, whether they are using an LI or HI build.  Sure, this leads to power creep, but we have that anyway.  However, if the goal is to make more players enjoy the game, then surely it's possible to increase the effectiveness of those who struggle.  If the HI players complain that this makes the game too easy for them, well, we've had that since about Day 3..

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

 

5 hours ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

Here's a radical idea.  Buff weapons rather than specific mechanics or traits.  That way, anyone using the weapon gets the benefit, whether they are using an LI or HI build.  Sure, this leads to power creep, but we have that anyway.  However, if the goal is to make more players enjoy the game, then surely it's possible to increase the effectiveness of those who struggle.  If the HI players complain that this makes the game too easy for them, well, we've had that since about Day 3..

These HI players are not even that good. They are just jealous that mech is kicking thier dps number below them. If they are any good, they would play other classes and beat mech pretty much on every boss except where they require alot of movement. Let the confusion pour in, coz they know its the truth.

[AliamRationem.5172]

10 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

wow, you killed a target that doesn't fight back.  That's not data, that's intentionally skewing actual performance to push an agenda.

 

Says the guy who has been waving benchmarks around like a shield in every discussion on this topic... 🤡

[Kal Durak.2830]

On 9/20/2022 at 7:55 PM, Antycypator.9874 said:

Only one small change to make Mech more interesting, but not a braindead feature:

> High damage output, but lower toughness and health pool (you draw agro)

> High toughness and health, but low damage (mech draw agro)

> Support.

 

What is the point of learning or even TRYING, if you see 6 mechs in your squad spamming 1 button, doing much better job than you? LI build should be purely for survival — cut some of your damage for more self-sustain.

Mech is basicaly: a TANK (almost unkillable), and DAMAGE DEALER in one. And you have a powerful ranged weapon (rifle).

Rifle burst grenade should be deleted or moved somewhere else — because it really sucks to gain benefits from whole Explosive traits WITHOUT USING GRENADES OR BOMBS in such an easy way.

Funny that is not what I see, I see Mech outdamaged by EVERY class in DPS.   So, maybe it's you....

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

 

These HI players are not even that good. They are just jealous that mech is kicking thier dps number below them. If they are any good, they would play other classes and beat mech pretty much on every boss except where they require alot of movement. Let the confusion pour in, coz they know its the truth.

Ikr?  It's almost like they expect the game to be balanced in some fashion.  What are these guys thinking?

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 minute ago, DtenCfour.3567 said:

Funny that is not what I see, I see Mech outdamaged by EVERY class in DPS.   So, maybe it's you....

I'm going to take a wild guess you don't roll with SC, since mech isn't outdamaged by every class there.  And simple logic will tell you the results will favor mech more the further below that level you play.  So, I guess I'm just going to have to call kitten on this.

[Kal Durak.2830]

On 9/23/2022 at 3:54 PM, Mell.4873 said:

Quote from the wiki "This makes mechanists very versatile, letting them specialise into damage dealing, or support, providing boons and healing" seems like a Support DPS to me. They should not be doing nearly that much DPS if the slot in just damage traits and I guess the Devs agree.

Dev's change their minds all the time...

[Kal Durak.2830]

On 9/24/2022 at 4:57 AM, Mell.4873 said:

If anything the discussion here about the Mechanist problem has highlighted a big unknown in Open World PvE.
This is that DPS means nothing for OW Events, it is all about the utility you bring in your kit.

A perfect example that comes to mind is playing Soulbeast vs Untamed. While Soulbeast has much better damage numbers the whole class lends itself to group content and not surviving. While Untamed is really powerful soloing and by extension not dying which excels in OW content.

My point like @The Boz.2038 has pointed out is that Mechanist brings a lot more than just DPS and the fact it has such high benchmark is a problem.

You mean the Ranger and Pet with EVERY buff in GAME????  They need to be nerfed BAD.  Way overpowered compared to the Mech.

[Kal Durak.2830]

18 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'm going to take a wild guess you don't roll with SC, since mech isn't outdamaged by every class there.  And simple logic will tell you the results will favor mech more the further below that level you play.  So, I guess I'm just going to have to call kitten on this.

You got me, I am not a 1% elitist, I am of the 99% of the casual players in the game having fun in Normal content.

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, DtenCfour.3567 said:

You got me, I am not a 1% elitist, I am of the 99% of the casual players in the game having fun in Normal content.

Well, you obviously aren't using arcdps to determine that every class is beating mechanist on DPS in open world.  So what are you using to determine that?  Feelings?

[soul.9651]

3 hours ago, DtenCfour.3567 said:

Funny that is not what I see, I see Mech outdamaged by EVERY class in DPS.   So, maybe it's you....

You must be living in the alternate reality or something. Please do enlighten us with your personal dps logs how mechs are suffering in your eyes.

Edited September 28, 2022 by soul.9651

[Nephalem.8921]

All the people complaining about the upcoming rifle nerf would never notice it without patchnotes.

Are they really monitoring their dps that closely that they would notice an 8% drop? Most rifle mech enjoyers spend more time watching netflix than the game. How are they supposed to notice this?

Cata was murdered brutally. Rifle mech gets a slight slap on the wrist. It will still be op for casuals. 

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil.

Regards.

[zeyeti.8347]

15 hours ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

they would play other classes and beat mech pretty much on every boss except where they require alot of movement. Let the confusion pour in, coz they know its the truth.

We dont play other classes , we are becoming lazy here , why pushing buttons when you can pratically make your laundry , watcha  video , play another , while playing mech .

Is it so difficlut to understand that no mechnics of the mechs are changing , it's just dps output , just tell me why 33% of the playerbase endgame are choosing mech ? And you all know mech is op but you can finally , as bad as you are at dps , say you are meta dps wise , but reminder , your pet do 33% of  your damage , so say the truth you are 66% meta , half baked ... Sorry for the mech enjoyers , but this class can outperform everything, has so much role compression (something pve open world player only cant understand , who the hell play healmech solo open world ?) , is it to hard to understand that in 27 e-specs played one of those is played at 33% and thats an issue , when something become too strong and surely is easy to play , everybody gonna play it , only fans will stay with their beloved class 

I played ele and right now i dont want to touch this whole class even with a stick , because it is weak as support, as healer and as dps require a freaking melee rotation you can mostly of the timenot accomplish on endgame bosses .

Stop saying it is fine , open world mech will still melt everything because it is one of the class who deal the most damage without boons (remind you have perma 5stacks of might , some fury and some quickness , and you are 1200 range ... while having 5 crowd control without including utilities)----> here is data not cheap talk yellow rainbow , and thats the truth !! https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity bring me some numbers , talking and saying that and that is easy , mech overperform and need a nerf for game health .

[zeyeti.8347]

5 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

All the people complaining about the upcoming rifle nerf would never notice it without patchnotes.

Are they really monitoring their dps that closely that they would notice an 8% drop? Most rifle mech enjoyers spend more time watching netflix than the game. How are they supposed to notice this?

Cata was murdered brutally. Rifle mech gets a slight slap on the wrist. It will still be op for casuals. 

Thats soooooo true !!!! They usually dont care about dps because only toxic eleitist care about it , and now they are on the other side of the mirror and start crying.... 28k afk is not OK ! just show me another class doing that , gl finding ...

Edited September 28, 2022 by zeyeti.8347