Revenge Counter

[Zagerus.8675]

Currently Revenge Counter has a perk where it grants 20% more damage to Full Counter. In SPvP it does 9 or 10 damage so I think this grandmaster trait provides the perfect place to add a nod to Shoutbreaker with some AoE barrier for teammates. 

Revenge Counter: Full Counter grants you resistance and grants allies barrier for each foe struck. Copy conditions on yourself to targets hit by Full Counter.

The range for granting allies barrier could be 300 (same as FC hit range) and should be on the lower end (500-600 barrier) so that the trait has highest value in teamfights.

[Sahne.6950]

8 hours ago, Zagerus.8675 said:

Revenge Counter: Full Counter grants you resistance and grants allies barrier for each foe struck. Copy conditions on yourself to targets hit by Full Counter.

I am all for anything that helps Spellbreaker....  BUT THIS IS TOO MUCH!

Edited September 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Remove the damage mod (PvP and WvW) and simply make the Copy Condition a Transfer. 

Prioritizw the transfer over cleansing. 

[Avatar.3568]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I am all for anything that helps Spellbreaker....  BUT THIS IS TOO MUCH!

Thats already a Thing.

But i would Go that it Transfers instead of copying it

[Sahne.6950]

2 minutes ago, Avatar.3568 said:

Thats already a Thing.

But i would Go that it Transfers instead of copying it

wait what? fullcounter is not transfering/copying the conditions that you have on you.

i am simply not a fan of loading even more things on fullcounter. It is already incredibly strong as is.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Hotride.2187]

19 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

wait what? fullcounter is not transfering/copying the conditions that you have on you.

i am simply not a fan of loading even more things on fullcounter. It is already incredibly strong as is.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revenge_Counter

It does, just every spb runs magebane tether because its the only viable option in spvp. Your sustain and CC (yes, funnily enough, also the CC) is just not enough without it. Though no idea about support builds, maybe there revenge counter works.

[Avatar.3568]

19 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

wait what? fullcounter is not transfering/copying the conditions that you have on you.

i am simply not a fan of loading even more things on fullcounter. It is already incredibly strong as is.

If you Run the recistence trait it copys 3 condis to every target that got hit

[Avatar.3568]

1 minute ago, Hotride.2187 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revenge_Counter

It does, just every spb runs magebane tether because its the only viable option in spvp. Your sustain and CC (yes, funnily enough, also the CC) is just not enough without it. Though no idea about support builds, maybe there revenge counter works.

You Run it on healbreaker, but the viabilty of the trait fehlt down when they Changed recistence 

[Sahne.6950]

1 minute ago, Avatar.3568 said:

If you Run the recistence trait it copys 3 condis to every target that got hit

oh heall yeah! your right i totaly forgot about that one cuz literally everyone is running mabebane xD

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I am all for anything that helps Spellbreaker....  BUT THIS IS TOO MUCH!

 

https://i.imgur.com/OiKDKb8.mp4

 

 

[Sahne.6950]

8 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

https://i.imgur.com/OiKDKb8.mp4

 

 

*sips tea*

i just think its WAYYYY to loaded.... i thought he meant it should simply copy every condition ontop of giving barrier, providing resistance, negating damage, providing stability, being a CC skill, being unblockable......    you see where i am going xD

 

they can add things to Spellbreaker... but fullcounter is not where they should add more. there is WAYYY to much baked into the skill already.

there must be other ways to improve spellbreaker besides baking even more into this one skill.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[crewthief.8649]

15 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

If you Run the recistence trait it copys 3 condis to every target that got hit

Gotta love the folks that have certain strong opinions about a profession, yet lack a basic knowledge of said profession’s traits. 

 

15 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

oh heall yeah! your right i totaly forgot about that one cuz literally everyone is running mabebane xD

Uh-huh… 🙄

Edited September 21, 2022 by crewthief.8649

[Sahne.6950]

6 minutes ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Gotta love the folks that have certain strong opinions about a profession, yet lack a basic knowledge  of said profession’s traits. 

 

Uh-huh… 🙄

gotta love how i am not allowed to express that i feel, that a single skill doing 6 diffrent things at once is bloated.

gotta love how folks get mad about someone not knowing about every p00py trait. I did not remember that trait, someone told me about it. i learned.... we go on with our day.... no hard feelings my man.

next time i wont open my mouth unless i have 2k hours on said profession.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Spellbreaker is already better than core Warrior, hence it is evident that any eventual buffs should target core Warrior rather than Spellbreaker specifically.

[crewthief.8649]

13 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

gotta love how i am not allowed to express that i feel, that a single skill doing 6 diffrent things at once is bloated.

gotta love how folks get mad about someone not knowing about every p00py trait. I did not remember that trait, someone told me about it. i learned.... we go on with our day.... no hard feelings my man.

next time i wont open my mouth unless i have 2k hours on said profession.

A basic understanding of the traits that the profession currently has would be a good start. No one is disputing your right to have an opinion, but you were firmly against SPB having a capability that it already possesses.

The basic issue is that over the years many things have been nerfed because of folks railing on this forum about mechanics and professions that they have very little knowledge of. Thus, I’m sure you can appreciate people that main that profession having an issue with the opinions of people that know very little about what they’re complaining about.

Edited September 21, 2022 by crewthief.8649

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I think it should transfer instead of copy, that way the spellbreaker at least cleanses the conditions from themselves.

As for how to help support wise, I think Guard Counter should grant Protection in an area, and that Revenge Counter should grant Resistance in an area. I also think that Dispelling Force should grant ripped boons in an area.

It really would not take much to turn Spellbreaker into a functional support spec.

[Vancho.8750]

7 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

wait what? fullcounter is not transfering/copying the conditions that you have on you.

i am simply not a fan of loading even more things on fullcounter. It is already incredibly strong as is.

Transfer is actually a nerf/buff , copy hits everyone around you with conditions so that is 5 conditions AoE if you take slow counter, transfer cleanses you from the conditions but only one person eats them, so its less condi spam but also more defense for the warrior.
Also FC is the only mechanic that spellbreaker has so it is the only thing Anet could put trait triggers on, you like tempest it also has several on Overload traits same deal . As for the Allot of stuff it does is factually incorrect, it does one thing it ALWAYS stops one attack and almost always can hit the targets around the Warrior, the evade, the damage reduction on one attack and the stability are just there so the skill can ALWAYS go off, it is protector's strike that is pretending that it has distortion. Arenanet could have made a special effect so it doesn't look like laundry list but this also kinda works fine as is for a last minute spec. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Vancho.8750

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

next time i wont open my mouth unless i have 2k hours on said profession.

 

Nah just like...check the wiki it's okay. You gotta be careful about that because people making assumptions without reading traits is like 70% of why professions get yeeted from the meta. 

 

Quote

I think it should transfer instead of copy, that way the spellbreaker at least cleanses the conditions from themselves.

 

 I think this is a fair solution.

 

It was supposed to do additional damage and copy condis AND grand a short period of condi immunity, It does one of those things in pvp, perhaps moving that copy to a transfer would make the trait suitable over magebane.

 

I'm not so sure about the OP's request for barrier since it requires a significant rework/addition of functionality to the trait that only really affects teamfighting, and not spellbreaker as a whole. A fine line would also need to be drawn between how much is too much barrier for hitting 1-5 people.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Nothing stopping that transfer from being an AoE. Just copy then clear the condis copied.

[oscuro.9720]

10 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

wait what? fullcounter is not transfering/copying the conditions that you have on you.

i am simply not a fan of loading even more things on fullcounter. It is already incredibly strong as is.

Current revenge counter copies the conditions that are on you to enemies. The suggestion that is most popular amongst warriors is to change this copy to a transfer. The copy wasn’t bad when resistance was a negation of all conditions, but since the nerf to resistance and the nerf to damage, the trait is fairly ineffectual. 

 

Personally, I think a damage increase that allows revenge to hit around 2k so it can clear Mesmer clones, plus transfer would make the trait competitive. It’s essentially the exact same as the current trait, just brought up to account for the system-wide nerfs that have rendered the trait useless. 

[Knote.2904]

2 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Transfer is actually a nerf/buff , copy hits everyone around you with conditions so that is 5 conditions AoE if you take slow counter, transfer cleanses you from the conditions but only one person eats them, so its less condi spam but also more defense for the warrior.
Also FC is the only mechanic that spellbreaker has so it is the only thing Anet could put trait triggers on, you like tempest it also has several on Overload traits same deal . As for the Allot of stuff it does is factually incorrect, it does one thing it ALWAYS stops one attack and almost always can hit the targets around the Warrior, the evade, the damage reduction on one attack and the stability are just there so the skill can ALWAYS go off, it is protector's strike that is pretending that it has distortion. Arenanet could have made a special effect so it doesn't look like laundry list but this also kinda works fine as is for a last minute spec. 

Easy work around, copy conditions to 5 enemies, cleanse X conditions.

The traits should be about specializing counter not trying to overload it. I think it's super interesting to have a clear specialization similar to Vindicator. I would totally play spb if it could legit cleanse and transfer and have a dangerous anti-condi build

[felix.2386]

well, revenge counter is already the best trait for support spellbreaker, copying 3 traits paired with slow counter, you are casting 5 conditions on enemy.

resistance alone is already better pick for support cuz nobody care about extra damage on a support build and enchantment collapse is useless in pvp

 

and support can already deal with condition just fine, unlike power builds, which will need tether instead.

 

i feel like you think it is lacking something because there's this 20% damage increase line there, the trait is completely fine in terms of power level, if you just remove the 20% damage increase, i feel like it is only there because it would be bad for pve, and that's fine.

 

if i want anything extra, would be share the resistance to allies would be cool and help support build

transfer condition would be way too op if you are removing 3 conditions every 9 second on top of what it already does, specially considering the cleansing potential support spellbreaker already has

Edited September 21, 2022 by felix.2386

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

well, revenge counter is already the best trait for support spellbreaker, copying 3 traits paired with slow counter, you are casting 5 conditions on enemy.

resistance alone is already better pick for support cuz nobody care about extra damage on a support build and enchantment collapse is useless in pvp

 

and support can already deal with condition just fine, unlike power builds, which will need tether instead.

 

i feel like you think it is lacking something because there's this 20% damage increase line there, the trait is completely fine in terms of power level, if you just remove the 20% damage increase, i feel like it is only there because it would be bad for pve, and that's fine.

 

if i want anything extra, would be share the resistance to allies would be cool and help support build

transfer condition would be way too op if you are removing 3 conditions every 9 second on top of what it already does, specially considering the cleansing potential support spellbreaker already has

You mean the cleansing potential that is getting changed on Oct. 4th? I think that just bolsters the argument that it should transfer instead of just copy.

[felix.2386]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You mean the cleansing potential that is getting changed on Oct. 4th? I think that just bolsters the argument that it should transfer instead of just copy.

what cleansing potential of healbreaker is changed other then shake it off, while healbreaker getting extra endurance and barrier. (not counting full counter daze increase)

shake it off change for healbreaker is more a problem of stunbreak instead of cleansing, unlike power builds.

 

if you mean the part where you can not cleanse as much for allies, then transfer does not help ally either.

revenge counter is a selfish trait(excluding the condition spreading part), healbreaker simply does not lack self cleansing, even with the new shake it off change.

which is why i'd want a group resistance application, which would aid in support.

 

self condition cleanse is never a problem for healbreaker at all, not before, not now.

specially now with banner of tactic and light field and double blast from warhorn and leaps

asking extra 3 condition cleanse every 9 second on top of current state of healbreaker is just not well thought out and make it seem like you haven't fully grasp of current pvp's overall power level.

Edited September 21, 2022 by felix.2386

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

what cleansing potential of healbreaker is changed other then shake it off, while healbreaker getting extra endurance and barrier. (not counting full counter daze increase)

shake it off change for healbreaker is more a problem of stunbreak instead of cleansing, unlike power builds.

 

if you mean the part where you can not cleanse as much for allies, then transfer does not help ally either.

revenge counter is a selfish trait(excluding the condition spreading part), healbreaker simply does not lack self cleansing, even with the new shake it off change.

which is why i'd want a group resistance application, which would aid in support.

 

self condition cleanse is never a problem for healbreaker at all, not before, not now.

specially now with banner of tactic and light field and double blast from warhorn and leaps

asking extra 3 condition cleanse every 9 second on top of current state of healbreaker is just not well thought out and make it seem like you haven't fully grasp of current pvp's overall power level.

Warrior can overload itself with self condi removal, and has been able to do so for a while, independent of the current PvP scene, but they aren't very effective otherwise if you do that, placing it onto the profession mechanic opens up the ability to do other things. And 3 condis removed every 9 seconds is less than what some other professions can do while augmenting their profession mechanic.

The discussion around Revenge Counter is predicated on the fact that they overnerfed Full Counter's damage and latching onto condition transfers is one of the ways that people (plural as in not just me), have been discussing making the trait more worth taking.

If they buff Full Counter's damage, like how they just did with Skull Crack and Earth Shaker, then it becomes a moot point. TBH this is the right path forward, finding an amount of damage on Full Counter that is not obscene, but enough that Revenge Counter can make it feel weighty. I still think they should put Resolution on it since Resistance is so nerfed.