I don't like the way ANet is trying to improve warrior weapons

[Zekent.3652]

It seems that their only solution is; "just give it an ammo skill" rifle, longbow, torch.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[Dadnir.5038]

That was to promote Bladesworn. The next patch preview seem to show that they will try different things now.

Quote

Tactical Reload: This skill now only recharges bladesworn skills instead of all warrior ammunition skills.

 

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That was to promote Bladesworn. The next patch preview seem to show that they will try different things now.

 

Oof, not sure i like that idea, really destroys buidability of bladesworn and hugely limits the usefulness of the skill.

[Hotride.2187]

Well they are also buffing dmg.

I've been playing unranked spvp a lot in the last few days (essentially nothing else to play right now). I could record a full series of dagger leaps falling short halfway to the target because:

• I pulled the target and forgot the leaps are garbage, so I leaped.
• Target had evade frames so the leap decided to essentially jump in place.
• Target had swiftness/superspeed, I didn't.
• Prolly a desync.
• Prolly not a desync, but still didn't connect for reasons.

But hey when you do dagger 2 dagger burst on a stunned/immob target, they actually do dmg and they will do even more dmg soon. It would of course be good to fix the leap to not be useless, but you can't ask for too much I guess.

When a whole set of skills are more useful if you detarget and "aim manually", their animations really should be looked into...

Edited September 20, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[felix.2386]

11 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That was to promote Bladesworn. The next patch preview seem to show that they will try different things now.

 

they added ammo to torch the same day they nerf tactical reload, plus it's a berserker skill

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

We need to know their vision of warrior. Right now, it feels like they're just copying other classes. I'm not mad at the boons we'll soon have but it's telling how they relented on giving the once "non-magical" class more boons.

With a clearer and more concrete description on their goals regarding warrior, it'll help us all out a ton going forward.

[felix.2386]

i'm simply tired of them adding ammo to useless skills.

it is like they said in the stream, how they tried to balance hammer with CC doing no damage, they just decrease the cooldowns.

seems like the their other way is to add more ammo, which is basically the same thing.

 

they decided to add damage back to CC for hammer/mace because they are no longer comfortable reducing cooldowns on those weapons.

they must realize it's the same for other skills..like bad skills are bad, no matter how many ammo you give, look at kick and throw bolas..like...these skills may as well not exist and nobody would know.

rifle is a complete failure

yet they still added ammo to longbow..

 

(90% sure that kick and throw bolas are given ammo because they no longer feel comfortable farther reducing their CD LOL)

Edited September 20, 2022 by felix.2386

[KryTiKaL.3125]

13 hours ago, Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

Oof, not sure i like that idea, really destroys buidability of bladesworn and hugely limits the usefulness of the skill.

Except Bladesworn was really, really, really being carried in Competitive by its bloated sustain which Tactical Reload affecting Shout ammo was the reason for it. It needed to be changed. Shoutsworn builds were winning basically purely by attrition (I've been saying this word a lot lately) due to the fact that they could heal directly from shouts, refresh the ammo charges on said shouts and top themselves off consistently.

It was unhealthy gameplay, really skirting the line with bunker meta, and it has been blinding people to Bladesworn's mechanical and other gameplay issues. Just a disclaimer; no one disputes that Bladesworn performs well in PvE, or that it was "holding its own" in PvP/WvW, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have issues it needs resolving. It also isn't even the only thing that needs adjustments to reign it in. They did similar to Specter, Scrapper, and more will likely be done to other classes.

[felix.2386]

1 hour ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

Except Bladesworn was really, really, really being carried in Competitive by its bloated sustain which Tactical Reload affecting Shout ammo was the reason for it.

 

lol no, bladesworn bloated sustain come from the bugs

shouts are only little part of tactical reload sustain, 3 extra shouts is only slightly better then that one extra heal skill

 

bladesworn would still be good if they just nerfed tactical reload and did not fix the bugs.

the opposite, they fix the bugs but did not nerf the tactical reload, bladesworn would also be dead.

Edited September 21, 2022 by felix.2386

[KryTiKaL.3125]

13 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

 

lol no, bladesworn bloated sustain come from the bugs

shouts are only little part of tactical reload sustain, 3 extra shouts is only slightly better then that one extra heal skill

 

bladesworn would still be good if they just nerfed tactical reload and did not fix the bugs.

the opposite, they fix the bugs but did not nerf the tactical reload, bladesworn would also be dead.

Sure, its also the extra condition cleanse from an extra Shake It Off, also the extra might heals from FGJ. Were they the main brunt of the healing that Tactical Reload helped supplement? No, that was always Combat Stim, however that doesn't mean they did not contribute quite a bit to its overall sustain; because consider that sustain can go beyond just the healing one does, it also includes support utility paired with it, which are things like cleanses and any number of trait and skill interactions that either heal or provide protection, barrier, resolution, resistance and whatnot.

At least that is how I have always viewed it. Maybe that is incorrect? I'm not sure, but to me all of those things can fall under that umbrella.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Most of the healing from Shoutsworn comes from Mending Might and Combat Stimulant and not the shouts per se.

[Ukronblake.8265]

I like the way ANet is attempting to improve Warrior weapons, though.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Most of the healing from Shoutsworn comes from Mending Might and Combat Stimulant and not the shouts per se.

Sure, which the former provides a lot. However when we are talking about things that "bloat" things like sustain its when the additions are adding onto what is already there. In this case Shout healing as the addition that was making the sustain bloated, paired with the fact that these Shouts could have an ammo charge refreshed with Tactical Reload.

Making TR not affect all ammo skills was the right move to reign in the sustain, or at least as a first step to see where Shoutsworn, or just Bladesworn, sustain lands after these particular changes. So long as ANet iterates on these sorts of things then its likely these things aren't forever set in stone.

The "extra" patch at the end of November is a good sign. Especially seeing these changes that will for once actually leave an impact. At least by how they look.

ANet seems to be trending in a better direction with balance these days. The banner changes were a start (still needs adjustment honestly if we're talking about it actually competing with Firebrand or even just being able to do acceptable DPS) and with these October 4th changes it told me at least that they are actually following a trend of better adjustments.

[Zekent.3652]

6 hours ago, Ukronblake.8265 said:

I like the way ANet is attempting to improve Warrior weapons, though.

Interesting, can you tell me why? exactly.

[eXruina.4956]

I like that Anet is improving Warrior weapons at all, instead of pushing out things like.. changing Warhorn number of targets or worse gutting every important damaging skill in our kit. 🤣👌

 

A cautionary tale of how it once was. 🥺😓

Edited September 21, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

Sure, which the former provides a lot. However when we are talking about things that "bloat" things like sustain its when the additions are adding onto what is already there. In this case Shout healing as the addition that was making the sustain bloated, paired with the fact that these Shouts could have an ammo charge refreshed with Tactical Reload.

Making TR not affect all ammo skills was the right move to reign in the sustain, or at least as a first step to see where Shoutsworn, or just Bladesworn, sustain lands after these particular changes. So long as ANet iterates on these sorts of things then its likely these things aren't forever set in stone.

The "extra" patch at the end of November is a good sign. Especially seeing these changes that will for once actually leave an impact. At least by how they look.

ANet seems to be trending in a better direction with balance these days. The banner changes were a start (still needs adjustment honestly if we're talking about it actually competing with Firebrand or even just being able to do acceptable DPS) and with these October 4th changes it told me at least that they are actually following a trend of better adjustments.

The TR nerf was the right call, I in fact called for that nerf persistently so as not to have shouts nerfed. I even made a thread full of tables showing that it was CS and TR driving the sustain. TR recharging CS and FGJ, which fueled MM, was the source of the problem. I even broke the numbers down to if CS itself were no longer an ammo skill and if it were no longer an ammo skill and if TR were nerfed to not recharge ammo. If you have not seen that thread I can go pull it up for you.

Re: Banners. I think they need 900 range, and Banner of Discipline needs more damage on it, which could come from separate trait interactions. I keep suggesting that Wounding precision apply torment when you apply bleeding on a 1 for 1 basis, which would put BoD in the right place damage wise. I also think that BoS and BoD need to pulse more or different boons. Pulsing Fury and Might is kind of lame when you can get more coverage from FGJ.