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Stop, Look, and.. Organize? 🤣🙏


eXruina.4956

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A proposal to the Devs, just a proposal, moving forward with Warrior.

 

Right now I think everything is just jumbled up and chaotic, there's healing in offensive lines, damage in defensive lines, power in condi lines etc..

 

I think its time to stop, take a look and organize 

 

Strength - GS (Strike), Axes (Strike), Rifle (Strike)

 

Arms - Swords Line Bleeding (Condi) , Longbow Line Burning (Condi), Hammer and Maces (Stuns, Weakness, Cripple) (Condi? add Confusion?)

 

Discipline - Crit Chance Line, Crit Damage Line, Condi Proc Line

 

Defense - Self Healing and Mitigation (Protection and Resolution) Line, Stun Break and Cleanses Line, Mobility (Stability and Resolution) Line.

 

Tactics - Banners Line aoe Boons, Shouts Line aoe Healing, Signets Line (selfish Buffs and Boons)

 

In all honesty, Fast Hands should be made a Warrior feature, I suggest to make it baseline, my argument is that its just like how Attunement is for Ele, Kits for Engi, Shroud for Necro, Pets for Rangers, etc.. In terms of balance its practically that already. There is really no point locking it behind Discipline in the current gamestate.

 

My thoughts in these suggestions is to create a focus in design and builds as we move on into the future. So it will be easier to identify and shore up what is lacking or address what needs to be toned down.

 

These suggestions are for Warrior but I truly think all classes will benefit from organization.

 

I truly believe future balance and design will benefit from this.

Edited by eXruina.4956
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  • eXruina.4956 changed the title to Stop, Look, and.. Organize? 🤣🙏

The warrior lines are somewhat of a jumbled mess like you said, but at the same time, spreading out the sustain means that you are not locked into one line for your sustain. Just look at Rangers and how mandatory they feel that Wilderness Survival is. I think after Oct. 4th you'll have strong options for sustain within 3 different lines while also having strong offensive options within those same lines to pick and choose from.

If they lock all the self sustain, say within Defense, then every build will be Str or Arms/Defense/Discipline or Def/Disc/Bers or Def/Disc/Spell or Str/Def/BSW. You'll essentially lock out build diversity.

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57 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The warrior lines are somewhat of a jumbled mess like you said, but at the same time, spreading out the sustain means that you are not locked into one line for your sustain. Just look at Rangers and how mandatory they feel that Wilderness Survival is. I think after Oct. 4th you'll have strong options for sustain within 3 different lines while also having strong offensive options within those same lines to pick and choose from.

If they lock all the self sustain, say within Defense, then every build will be Str or Arms/Defense/Discipline or Def/Disc/Bers or Def/Disc/Spell or Str/Def/BSW. You'll essentially lock out build diversity.

but isn't that how we've been building for the past few years though.. str/disc, tac/disc, def/disc, str/tac pretty monotonous without any diversity whatsoever, we're locked to these traits, and we'll forever be locked because they are our only viable options.

 

what im suggesting doesn't have to be what i posted above, is just a sample idea, but having focused lines will actually open up our options for doing things we want our builds to do. without it being a half measure.

 

for example, a defensive line will almost always be mandatory in competitive, at least this way we'll only almost always need to take only 1 line for it rather than splitting sustain between str and tac.

 

some people were already dumping disc at one point or another bwcause they just couldn't sustain with only str or only tac.

 

and warrior has been definitively weak these past few years. and the builds that are actually viable, are pretty much locked, theres been no diversity, so that result kinda sums it up.

Edited by eXruina.4956
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i personally have had more build diversity in the past, with x/def/disc, and viable weapon coefficients and functions across the board, some were sub par true, but they were viable.

 

now we have what? axe/x? 🤔 our best weapons were turned to fodder. 🥺😓

Edited by eXruina.4956
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in the past we could go x/def/disc or when we're feeling adventurous dump def.

 

and we could run things like gs and any weapon combination we chose on swap, gs+axe/sh, gs+rifle, gs+lb, gs+hammer, gs+sw/sh, etc etc.. 

 

gs was singlehandedly carrying warrior on its back. partially today it still is.

 

they pushed axe/x on us, but axe/x doesn't even compare and won't carry us.

 

there was a time when warriors of all kinds roamed, all of them pretty distinct, they were varying, some builds are obviously better than others but they were viable.

 

the balance decisions over the years killed us off.

 

 

Edited by eXruina.4956
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19 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

but isn't that how we've been building for the past few years though.. str/disc, tac/disc, def/disc, str/tac pretty monotonous without any diversity whatsoever, we're locked to these traits, and we'll forever be locked because they are our only viable options.


 

A lot of that has to do with Fast hands, but if you take a look at what you wrote each of those pairings could go onto any of the especs NOW and function fine outside of instanced PvE speed running and is a lot more options that what would happen if all our self sustain were locked into Defense. 

19 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

what im suggesting doesn't have to be what i posted above, is just a sample idea, but having focused lines will actually open up our options for doing things we want our builds to do. without it being a half measure.

I think damage types and the weapon traits need to be reorganized, namely Crack Shot, but the rest of the weapon traits are where they need to be. Arms needs more Condi focus, and the damage increases outside of Strength need to increase both condi and strike damage so that they are more agnostic. I think that would solve some of the mess.

19 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

for example, a defensive line will almost always be mandatory in competitive, at least this way we'll only almost always need to take only 1 line for it rather than splitting sustain between str and tac.

I hasn't been for 2 years, but that was due to bad balance. It will get used a lot moving forward because of how strong the condition cleansing will be along with easier self sustain from AH's on use buff. If Shrug it Off had increased conditions cleansed on it, say 4, then Tactics would be just as viable as a self sustain line as the new Defense will be.

19 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

some people were already dumping disc at one point or another bwcause they just couldn't sustain with only str or only tac.

If you have the condition cleanses and movement speed it isn't so hard to dump. Just takes some time to recalibrate your muscle memory on the weapon swap.

19 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

and warrior has been definitively weak these past few years. and the builds that are actually viable, are pretty much locked, theres been no diversity, so that result kinda sums it up.

Depends on the Game mode. PvE will always be locked into what is the highest DPS build at the time. WvW gives a lot of leeway in build craft unless you are joining the zerg for a specific role. PvP depends on the mode, Unranked has leeway, Ranked less so.

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6 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

in the past we could go x/def/disc or when we're feeling adventurous dump def.

 

and we could run things like gs and any weapon combination we chose on swap, gs+axe/sh, gs+rifle, gs+lb, gs+hammer, gs+sw/sh, etc etc.. 

 

gs was singlehandedly carrying warrior on its back. partially today it still is.

This is where I will hard agree. Most of the lack of diversity comes from the poor weapon balancing. Traitlines can be swapped in and out, but the weapons themselves outside of GS, dagger/shield have been kind of lacking. 

6 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

they pushed axe/x on us, but axe/x doesn't even compare and won't carry us.

Axe would compete but they nerfed it too hard in Feb2020.

6 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

there was a time when warriors of all kinds roamed, all of them pretty distinct, they were varying, some builds are obviously better than others but they were viable.

 

the balance decisions over the years killed us off.

 

 

All from too heavy handed coefficient nerfs.  Grant it they need to do things other than coefficient buffs to fix the mess of warrior weapons. Things like the daze on LB4, which didn't make it into PvP/WvW...

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axe/x is not viable on its own without gs to back it up, and isn't going to carry anything, unless you're fighting another melee. save on bladesworn, cuz gunsaber and dragonslash 2.

 

without gs you'll get kited permanently from 1400-1200-900 range indefinitely against anyone competent, NOW in warrior's current iteration.

 

am proposing for the build diversity and focus moving forward. much of warrior's arsenal remains gutted even post Oct 4. we will have to see first how much the patch lifts us up and makes up for what we've lost.

Edited by eXruina.4956
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1 minute ago, eXruina.4956 said:

axe/x is not viable on its own without gs to back it up, and isn't going to carry anything, unless you're fighting another melee. save on bladesworn, cuz gunsaber and dragonslash 2.

 

without gs you'll get kited permanently from 1400-1200-900 range indefinitely against anyone competent, NOW in warrior's current iteration.

 

am arguing the build diversity and focus moving forward. much of warrior's arsenal remains gutted even post Oct 4. we will have to see first how much the patch lifts us up and makes up for what we've lost.

Yeah. They need to address that. Part of that would be on buffing Rifle's damage in all game modes so that it is a viable DPS weapon, or Rolling the Burn from Crack Shot into every attack on Longbow.

Counterblow and Riposte need to work like the ranger gs4 block.

Axe needs 3.0 back on T3 eviscerate and a shorter CD on axe 2.

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