Next Generation of Legendaries?

[Fallesafe.5932]

Well, you said it...We already have a gear treadmill, but it's disguised as a different thing, the stat-combos.Adding a gear treadmill would significantly impact the game.Look at dungeons and ascended gear.Dungeons were the end-game for PvE for a long time, and with exotic gear you would struggle with them, Arah P4 was infamous and could take even experienced groups a while to finish. Now with ascended gear (and a nerf to the Dwayna Priestess) you can do it trivially with a PUG. The difference in the overall stats is 5% (iirc) and still it had an overwhelming impact on the older content.

Adding another tier of gear above ascended would trivialize current raids, fractals and open world content, which would either require new end-game content adapted to those items, or having to retrofit the current end-game content to adapt to those new items, which in turn would make it harder for new players and returning players to do that content. I for one think the current approach is best suited for GW2, and has worked pretty well.

I hear you. But, I think the biggest PvE problem in the game, right now, is the expectation that the same old crap should stay fun forever. By the time I hit fractal scale 100, I was already sick to DEATH of fractals. I'm in complete disbelief that Anet would release an entire expansion with no new encounters. And I'm almost equally in dibelief that the players are concerned to keep that ancient content relevant... instead of beating down Anet's door for something new to do (gear-treadmill or not).

Fractals and raids SHOULD go the way of dungeons in order to make way for completely new stuff. There's only so many dozens of times you can run the Underground Facility fractal before it's time to put a fork in it.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Fallesafe.5932 said:

Well, you said it...We already have a gear treadmill, but it's disguised as a different thing, the stat-combos.Adding a gear treadmill would significantly impact the game.Look at dungeons and ascended gear.Dungeons were the end-game for PvE for a long time, and with exotic gear you would struggle with them, Arah P4 was infamous and could take even experienced groups a while to finish. Now with ascended gear (and a nerf to the Dwayna Priestess) you can do it trivially with a PUG. The difference in the overall stats is 5% (iirc) and still it had an overwhelming impact on the older content.

Adding another tier of gear above ascended would trivialize current raids, fractals and open world content, which would either require new end-game content adapted to those items, or having to retrofit the current end-game content to adapt to those new items, which in turn would make it harder for new players and returning players to do that content. I for one think the current approach is best suited for GW2, and has worked pretty well.

I hear you. But, I think the biggest PvE problem in the game, right now, is the expectation that the same old crap should stay fun forever. By the time I hit fractal scale 100, I was already sick to DEATH of fractals. I'm in complete disbelief that Anet would release an entire expansion with no new encounters. And I'm almost equally in dibelief that the players are concerned to keep that ancient content relevant... instead of beating down Anet's door for something new to do (gear-treadmill or not).

But that's the thing. Fractals are an ever-expanding content, as are raids. And because of how it works, it needs to stay somewhat self-consistent (not that there aren't fractals that are markedly harder than others, which is due to mechanics not gear).Guild Wars evolved in a way that makes end-game markedly different from other games, because they centralized the whole thing (i'd say more out of convenience and a measure of lazyness for them than anything else, but it's how it works now) in a couple of content outlets that need to be self-consistent (and to a degree self-contained).

Unlike other games that have gear and level scaling with new expansions, Arena Net wants the old content to stay relevant, actually that's one of the core premisses of the game, that they somewhat managed to fulfil. So while they want you to play in the new maps, they still want to keep old content current, so instead of just playing the new continent and new raids, you're still going to play the whole game.A gear treadmill just isn't consistent with that.

And it's also a kind of off-topic segue ^_^

[Orion Templar.4589]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:Following my quest for Amalgamated Gemstones and Mystic CoinsI feel your pain. Needing approximately 500 mystic coins has made the journey to a legendary a bit less fun in my opinion. Acquiring that many is either a high time gate, or adds a large gold gate (at current TP prices.)

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Orion Templar.4589 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:Following my quest for Amalgamated Gemstones and Mystic CoinsI feel your pain. Needing approximately 500 mystic coins has made the journey to a legendary a bit less fun in my opinion. Acquiring that many is either a high time gate, or adds a large gold gate (at current TP prices.)

Yes, it's one of the main issues with Gen 2 recipes, that makes them so inconsistent with Gen 1, also makes them more penalizing for new players exactly because of this.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

I am going to say it will require either gift of exploration or gift of maguma exploration to ensure not to alienate those who don't have HoT. So have fun mapping old tyria.

[Lady Deedra.3126]

They will require gift of maguuma mastery. I am already ready to make what ever the next one(s) released are. Hoping for a new longbow.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:I am going to say it will require either gift of exploration or gift of maguma exploration to ensure not to alienate those who don't have HoT. So have fun mapping old tyria.

Have you tried it lately? With mounts its way more fun now. Orr is done in seconds now, instead of ages.Also, i've got probably more Gifts of explorer than Maguuma even though the later is quite faster (because tangled depths is just an hassle - hateful damn map).

The insistence of "finishing the set" of Gen 2 weapons, kinda makes no sense, since there's already two different sets within it. It would make much more sense for them to just release legendary weapons withouth worrying too much about completing sets. Although, maybe, they should focus on releasing widely-used weapons... And not Chuka and Champawat (although now there's 3 classes that use shortbow, so it's a little less bad). And for the love of PETA, please make a bow that DOESN'T shoot living stuff (flowers or animals) next time!!! :p

[Shirlias.8104]

They can put whatever quest/farm/timegate they want as they will put em tradable from TP ( though we will see em with the next expansion, since the rest of gen 2 leggies will come with pof and hot gift of mastery ).I do really hope they learnt from the second generation mystake and that are players those who are supposed to rule the market ( and so, also trading time for golds and viceversa ).

[endurio.7065]

Imo the worst thing to do with Legendaries is to exclude 99% of the player population. Even though you may think it is an exclusive item in the game, it should not be reserved to the 1% who can master anything in the game, we have titles and achievements for that. Legenday weapons and armor should cost a lot of effort but should be within reach of the truly dedicated player. Alternative methods to get the same rewards like the wvw reward tracks are a welcome feature.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@endurio.7065 said:Imo the worst thing to do with Legendaries is to exclude 99% of the player population. Even though you may think it is an exclusive item in the game, it should not be reserved to the 1% who can master anything in the game, we have titles and achievements for that. Legenday weapons and armor should cost a lot of effort but should be within reach of the truly dedicated player. Alternative methods to get the same rewards like the wvw reward tracks are a welcome feature.

Although i understand what you're saying, i do believe they should be exclusive and available to people that actually master most aspects of the game.And it's not that hard to get the pvp and wvw components of the gifts, it's somewhat time-consuming, and if you don't really like those game modes it might be taxing. But the reverse is true. A lot of people don't leave the wvw maps and pvp lobby, so its also taxing for them to do the pve component of the legendary.

I do find that it is a nice way to introduce players to the rest of the game. The guild wars 2 experience is all of those game modes, and while i will agree that WvW and PvP have seen better days (even though they're more rewarding than ever in terms of what you get out of them), i do firmly believe that people who outright shun other game modes and focus on a single one are missing out.

Also 99% is REALLY exaggerated. I mean, everyone and their mother have at least one legendary weapon after a while. Dedicated players can easily get them, since you can LITERALLY AFK through the reward track for the Gift of Battle, and PvP (not saying you should, but you CAN).

[Jason.3485]

@Fallesafe.5932 said:

@mauried.5608 said:If everyone has a Legendary weapon then they are no longer legendary, so the obvious question is what percentage of the player base can have legendary weapons before they are no longer legendary?

Eventually, anybody who can fog a mirror will have legendary gear. Because the community has sworn, with blood oaths, that they won't accept "gear treadmills." Apparently, mastery-treadmills, and specialization-treadmills, and stat-combo-treadmills are perfectly fine. But the tar and feathers are on standby for anybody who dares to suggest that better items should

also

be added to the game.

I eventually feel that Arena Net should introduce a new tier of gear and make it part of upgrading ascended gear. I am a moderate player but the key is I have been playing since launch and I have accumulated way more ascended equipment then I will ever need. I think Arena Net would find a way to increase a new tier without making it a huge grind or start from scratch kind of process. Some players always need a long term goal to feel the sense of accomplishment.

[Jojo.6140]

I can imagine that they will add 2 different recipes for the next legendaries. One wich uses the normal gift of maguuma mastery, and another one that uses a new PoF-Gift that you can craft out of brandsparks, intact mosaics and amalgamated gemstones.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Jojo.6140 said:I can imagine that they will add 2 different recipes for the next legendaries. One wich uses the normal gift of maguuma mastery, and another one that uses a new PoF-Gift that you can craft out of brandsparks, intact mosaics and amalgamated gemstones.

Can't find anything related here https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amalgamated_GemstoneCould you explain about the gift you are talking about please?

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Jojo.6140 said:I can imagine that they will add 2 different recipes for the next legendaries. One wich uses the normal gift of maguuma mastery, and another one that uses a new PoF-Gift that you can craft out of brandsparks, intact mosaics and amalgamated gemstones.

Can't find anything related here

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amalgamated_Gemstone

Could you explain about the gift you are talking about please?There isn't one, he's being hypothetical. Although Amalgamated Gemstones are a HoT drop, so i don't think they belong in that recipe.

[Shirlias.8104]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Jojo.6140 said:I can imagine that they will add 2 different recipes for the next legendaries. One wich uses the normal gift of maguuma mastery, and another one that uses a new PoF-Gift that you can craft out of brandsparks, intact mosaics and amalgamated gemstones.

Can't find anything related here

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amalgamated_Gemstone

Could you explain about the gift you are talking about please?There isn't one, he's being hypothetical. Although Amalgamated Gemstones are a HoT drop, so i don't think they belong in that recipe.

I guess that everybody can have em through MF, so it wouldn't be a problem.Btw that was close... phew...

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Jojo.6140 said:I can imagine that they will add 2 different recipes for the next legendaries. One wich uses the normal gift of maguuma mastery, and another one that uses a new PoF-Gift that you can craft out of brandsparks, intact mosaics and amalgamated gemstones.

Can't find anything related here

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amalgamated_Gemstone

Could you explain about the gift you are talking about please?There isn't one, he's being hypothetical. Although Amalgamated Gemstones are a HoT drop, so i don't think they belong in that recipe.

I guess that everybody can have em through MF, so it wouldn't be a problem.Btw that was close... phew...

Well, the MF recipe was Anet's half-assed attempt of lessining the idiocy of asking for 250 of an item you can get 4 a day, max. Doesn't make them practical, or gives it meaning. Legendaries already have an expensive item that requires mystic forging, called Mystic clovers. Let the HoT mistakes stay with HoT, not perpetuate them.

Close to?

[Shirlias.8104]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:Close to?

I mean that i would have prefered something like map completion instead.Farming X Y and Z is boring if compared to map completion, to me.

That's why i am happy that it's only a proposal.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Fox.3469 said:I think it would be extremely weird for legendary weapons with post-Path of fire releases to require HoT map completion or farming. If they don't make the new maps rewarding in some way we're going to have a big problem.

Well it wouldn’t make sense to change the recipes with only six weapons left in the set. LS4 will likely have a season-wide currency which can be used to purchase tokens which be be used to craft shards. Those with HoT only can purchase those from LS3 or HoT map vendors.

@endurio.7065 said:Imo the worst thing to do with Legendaries is to exclude 99% of the player population. Even though you may think it is an exclusive item in the game,

it should not be reserved to the 1% who can master anything in the game

, we have titles and achievements for that.

Legenday weapons and armor should cost a lot of effort but should be within reach of the truly dedicated player

. Alternative methods to get the same rewards like the wvw reward tracks are a welcome feature.

How are the bolded different? What if only 1% of players fell under those that would put in the effort and be “truly dedicated”?

[Neural.1824]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Mike O'Brien confirmed in a Reddit AMA that Gen2 Legendary weapons will be released with Living World Season 4 Episodes, using the same formula as before.

Good luck.

No, he didn't. When asked if the yet-to-be-released 2nd Generation weapons would require Path of Fire, he stated that it was their "plan" to do not require PoF for them. He did not state unequivocally that there would be no change to the method of obtaining 2nd generation legendary weapons.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Neural.1824 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Mike O'Brien confirmed in a Reddit AMA that Gen2 Legendary weapons will be released with Living World Season 4 Episodes, using the same formula as before.

Good luck.

No, he didn't. When asked if the yet-to-be-released 2nd Generation weapons would require Path of Fire, he stated that it was their "plan" to do not require PoF for them. He did not state unequivocally that there would be no change to the method of obtaining 2nd generation legendary weapons.

Yeah, i actually spent some time looking for that Reddit quote, he said Gen 2 legendaries would keep comming out with Living Story and that PoF wouldn't be required. He didn't say they'd keep the same recipes, but he also didn't say otherwise, so we'll have to wait and see...Personally, if they don't change the recipes i see that as a second strike against Arena Net. I usually react very badly when companies disrespect their costumers, even when it doesn't affect me directly, it affects for example the arguments i have when inviting my friends over to play.So much so that i was finishing a video project for Wooden Potatoes contest, and honestly after the RNG mounts and the price of the Warhound, i simply couldn't bring myself to finish it, and it's scrapped now, because it wouldn't reflect how i feel about the game anymore.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Changing the recipes yet again would be bad.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Changing the recipes yet again would be bad.

I don't see why, but bad or not, given the way the game is marketed it is necessary.You can't sell future expansions as stand-alone content and then tell people: "Here's this new content that you need to buy the very first ever expansion to get, even though you just bought the latest one that should by all means give you access to all the latest content".

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Jojo.6140 said:I can imagine that they will add 2 different recipes for the next legendaries. One wich uses the normal gift of maguuma mastery, and another one that uses a new PoF-Gift that you can craft out of brandsparks, intact mosaics and amalgamated gemstones.

Can't find anything related here

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amalgamated_Gemstone

Could you explain about the gift you are talking about please?There isn't one, he's being hypothetical. Although Amalgamated Gemstones are a HoT drop, so i don't think they belong in that recipe.

I guess that everybody can have em through MF, so it wouldn't be a problem.Btw that was close... phew...

Well, the MF recipe was Anet's kitten attempt of lessining the idiocy of asking for 250 of an item you can get 4 a day, max. Doesn't make them practical, or gives it meaning. Legendaries already have an expensive item that requires mystic forging, called Mystic clovers. Let the HoT mistakes stay with HoT, not perpetuate them.

Close to?

You've got that mixed up. Amalgamated Gemstones and the MF recepie (the single one, not the bulk one) came before HoT. Being able to chose AG as a HoT meta reward is an addition to supplement the supply.

[Neural.1824]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Neural.1824 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Mike O'Brien confirmed in a Reddit AMA that Gen2 Legendary weapons will be released with Living World Season 4 Episodes, using the same formula as before.

Good luck.

No, he didn't. When asked if the yet-to-be-released 2nd Generation weapons would require Path of Fire, he stated that it was their "plan" to do not require PoF for them. He did not state unequivocally that there would be no change to the method of obtaining 2nd generation legendary weapons.

Yeah, i actually spent some time looking for that Reddit quote, he said Gen 2 legendaries would keep comming out with Living Story and that PoF wouldn't be required. He didn't say they'd keep the same recipes, but he also didn't say otherwise, so we'll have to wait and see...Personally, if they don't change the recipes i see that as a second strike against Arena Net. I usually react very badly when companies disrespect their costumers, even when it doesn't affect me directly, it affects for example the arguments i have when inviting my friends over to play.So much so that i was finishing a video project for Wooden Potatoes contest, and honestly after the RNG mounts and the price of the Warhound, i simply couldn't bring myself to finish it, and it's scrapped now, because it wouldn't reflect how i feel about the game anymore.

To be precise, his exact statement was this: "You got it. Our plan is to keep releasing them alongside episodes, not in a big batch, with weapons that come in Season Four not requiring the new expansion." Whether they have intention to require Path of Fire for new legendary weapons or not, the "Our plan" part gives them a legal out in case they decide to do just that.

[Umut.5471]

I just want a new generation of legendary armor.