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"KILL THE SCRAPPER!!!"


N A T E.3108

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"Kill the Scrapper!!!" is the cry apparently ringing throughout Anet's balance department as they get ready to release the October 4 balance patch. Possibly a valid talking point when specifically, and exclusively referencing support scrapper in WvW... However, for whatever reason, they have also decided to put the final nail in the coffin for scrapper in sPvP:

Scrapper

Skills

  • Defense Field: This skill is now ground targeted. The spell area of effect created by this skill is now stationary. Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 35 seconds in WvW only.
  • Scrapper wells are now stationary ground-targeted skills with a range of 900.

Traits

  • Impact Savant: This trait no longer reduces vitality.
  • Gyroscopic Acceleration: Superspeed is now applied on the first pulse of wells instead of the final pulse.
  • Kinetic Accelerators: This trait no longer grants quickness in PvP and WvW. Instead, it grants might and fury.

 

As all of you kind and loving PvPer's know... spotting a well-played Scrapper in the wilds of sPvP is like seeing a flock of dodo birds flying through Manhattan. I'm exaggerating a bit, but there are maybe 4 people in game who actually can play scrapper competitively. All other instances of this class are of noob players who will undoubtedly make your team lose. It was already a dead class before EoD, and now, in light of the extreme power creep that came with its launch (which has effectively made Scrapper even more useless than it already was), the idea of hard nerfing this poor class further is just deranged. 

 

Let's analyze these changes:

1:  "Scrapper wells are now stationary ground-targeted skills with a range of 900." + Defense Field: This skill is now ground targeted."

- Outcome: Our mobile survival skills now require us to stand still in a very small area to receive the effect. FYI, to all of you non-scrapper players... scrapper is not a tank. It really can't facetank much of anything. We rely heavily on kiting... Therefore, standing still in a PvP setting is either going to result in us dying, being much less effective, or being forced to bring other (worse) utilities. Think of the loss of effectiveness of Sneak Gyro alone (which is the best scrapper elite). Huge NERF. 

P.S. If you think blast gyro and shredder gyro got buffed... maybe. I think you really could only try to make that case for shredder gyro and there are still far better options to take.

2:  "Gyroscopic Acceleration: Superspeed is now applied on the first pulse of wells instead of the final pulse."

- Outcome: The superspeed starts at the beginning of a well... that is now stationary. Take note of the great usability here. You can (1) either use the superspeed for kiting/chasing OR (2) you can stand still in your well for its effect but lose access to the superspeed... BUT SURPRISE! You can't have both anymore! Huge NERF.

3: "Kinetic Accelerators: This trait no longer grants quickness in PvP and WvW. Instead, it grants might and fury."

- Outcome: Quickness has been about the only thing that has allowed power scrapper to be effective. Scrapper is a very slow class... it has lots of long-cast skills and it's supposed to do its damage in melee range... and it does low damage-per-hit... so you have to make a lot of hits happen to make up the damage, say, a warrior could do. So, removing quickness means you not only do less damage overall, but you also are required to stay in melee range longer in order to do the damage you need to do in order to be effective. Therefore, this nerf directly effects survivability (easier to get caught in cc) and requires more time dedication to get off healing combos. Not to mention this quickness was spread in a 360 area for your team, which nerfs your team fight capabilities as well (less damage/sustain over your team). Literally a MASSIVE NERF. 

 

"Why?" is the only question I have to ask. The class has underperformed for years (FT scrap doesn't count... It was literally only effective in low-tier play and was quickly nerfed) and honestly should be on the "need to buff" list. Not this. This is just weird and makes no sense from a "balance" perspective... I mean when does a non-played, underperforming class get nerf-hammered out of oblivion for no reason? Like, there isn't even a single oppressive scrapper in the entirety of sPvP lol. 

 

Think about it... Scrapper is getting nerfed harder than all of the top performing EoD specs (which all have a much lower skill ceiling to play effectively).

 

Anyway. please rethink these stupid changes. I felt like I at least needed to say something before you all trash the class entirely. I tried.

 

Thanks Anet Balance Team! I know you are going to read this and really care about what I've said and really consider it seriously not just laugh at me for  "qqing about my class." Yep. I am hoping for the best.

 

ALIEN

Edited by N A T E.3108
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37 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Im glad scrapper is going away. It was carried by superspeed and quickness uptime. Also, they just made scrapper wells how they were orginally intended.

Glad they also saw its unhealthy design.

Point 1. Literally a useless reply. Probably just hoping to troll so that I'll reply all annoyed. I'll oblige. 

 

Point 2. Carried into what exactly? If the class is only even mildly viable due to quickness uptime, then why would you want it removed? The point still stands that the class is already severely underperforming in the current meta, WITH quickness. Your argument of "they should delete the class all together" is not an argument. Thx.

 

Point 3. "how they were originally intended" doesn't mean anything. The trait line is entirely different from HoT's launch and the class now relies on mobile wells to compete with PoF and EoD classes. Give me back the original trait lines and skill effects too and we can talk about stationary wells. Otherwise realize that the class has been balanced around mobile effect fields. Thx.

 

Point 4. Unhealthy design? It requires a relatively high skill ceiling to even play scrapper effectively in the current meta. Literally almost no one does it and even fewer do it well. What is unhealthy is someone stepping into a class like bladesworn and after only a day of play, they can not only compete with veteran players (especially on Engi of almost any kind), but beat them consistently every, single, time and be more effective than them in game. THAT is unhealthy. THX.

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I've been running Scrapper in WvW pretty much since HoT came out. Looks like it's coming up to time to change to Mechanist.

Bullwark gyro is being nerfed to the ground. Stationary gyro and the defence field it comes with is now stationary with a higher cooldown.

Sounds like the Shredder Gyro is going to be similar to what it used to be.

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17 hours ago, N A T E.3108 said:

Point 1. Literally a useless reply. Probably just hoping to troll so that I'll reply all annoyed. I'll oblige. 

 

Point 2. Carried into what exactly? If the class is only even mildly viable due to quickness uptime, then why would you want it removed? The point still stands that the class is already severely underperforming in the current meta, WITH quickness. Your argument of "they should delete the class all together" is not an argument. Thx.

 

Point 3. "how they were originally intended" doesn't mean anything. The trait line is entirely different from HoT's launch and the class now relies on mobile wells to compete with PoF and EoD classes. Give me back the original trait lines and skill effects too and we can talk about stationary wells. Otherwise realize that the class has been balanced around mobile effect fields. Thx.

 

Point 4. Unhealthy design? It requires a relatively high skill ceiling to even play scrapper effectively in the current meta. Literally almost no one does it and even fewer do it well. What is unhealthy is someone stepping into a class like bladesworn and after only a day of play, they can not only compete with veteran players (especially on Engi of almost any kind), but beat them consistently every, single, time and be more effective than them in game. THAT is unhealthy. THX.

y u so mad lmao

Nothing in GW2 levies a high skill ceiling demand anyway.  And if you're flaunting your high skill ceiling, what's the issue with learning to use the terrain a bit or predict a target or encounter with such massive AoEs?

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The issue is the lack of quickness on top of completely changing the gyro mechanic.

 

  Alien plays scrapper well, he often beats me 1v1, and with this odd wrench toolkit based build.  I think it’s typically explosives, tools and scrapper.   


  Point is, it’s unconventional and he plays the crap out of it.  The build is incredibly hard to play and totally not worth the skill that would have to go into it to make it work.     It can only be a labour of love for the scrapper, he’s one of the few that has stuck it out since inception.

 

To make his build work, he’s very hard to pin down and needs to constantly move and reposition.  He blocks range with bulwark and uses sneak when things go really south.   It’s basically like fighting an annoying hyper active chipmunk.  That can really sting with the tool kit setup.
 

  Any scrapper still playing it needs to use every active defence and reposition they can.  There are so few even half competent (4 gyro builds need not apply)
 

He’s independently said exactly what I have. The last think scrapper had that could hold it was the quickness and mobility.  This will just finish it in moderate to high level pvp

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On 9/25/2022 at 3:11 AM, N A T E.3108 said:

Point 1. Literally a useless reply. Probably just hoping to troll so that I'll reply all annoyed. I'll oblige. 

 

Point 2. Carried into what exactly? If the class is only even mildly viable due to quickness uptime, then why would you want it removed? The point still stands that the class is already severely underperforming in the current meta, WITH quickness. Your argument of "they should delete the class all together" is not an argument. Thx.

 

Point 3. "how they were originally intended" doesn't mean anything. The trait line is entirely different from HoT's launch and the class now relies on mobile wells to compete with PoF and EoD classes. Give me back the original trait lines and skill effects too and we can talk about stationary wells. Otherwise realize that the class has been balanced around mobile effect fields. Thx.

 

Point 4. Unhealthy design? It requires a relatively high skill ceiling to even play scrapper effectively in the current meta. Literally almost no one does it and even fewer do it well. What is unhealthy is someone stepping into a class like bladesworn and after only a day of play, they can not only compete with veteran players (especially on Engi of almost any kind), but beat them consistently every, single, time and be more effective than them in game. THAT is unhealthy. THX.

Maybe they will up the speed of the attacks to make up for the lack of quickness 

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Hey Alien.....

   What I'm unclear on is if they understand that the quickness removal is what impacts PVP?   Are they reverting the change to kinetic accelerators?

 

1 hour ago, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Hi everyone, back with a quick update:

 

Since the preview we've seen a lot of feedback around the proposed change to convert Scrapper gyros into ground-targeted stationary spells. The main concern we've seen is that this change would remove the unique feeling of the skills without replacing it with something new.

We agree  we'll be reverting the proposed changes and will be making a different set of adjustments to Purge and Sneak Gyro for WvW:

  • Sneak Gyro: Reduced stealth duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second in WvW only. Reduced number of pulses from 6 to 3 in WvW only. This skill is no longer a smoke field in WvW only. This skill now plays a visual indicator to enemies on activation.
  • Purge Gyro: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in WvW only.

 

For clarification, we'll still be changing Defense Field into a ground-targeted skill in the October 4 update.

We'd still like to take a pass on updating the design of Scrapper gyros in the future, but not until we work out a replacement mechanic that feels both unique and fun to use.

As always, thanks to everyone who gave feedback on the upcoming changes; we really appreciate it.

 

Cal "cmc" Cohen

Skills and Balance Lead

 

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On 9/25/2022 at 2:18 PM, Swagg.9236 said:

y u so mad lmao

Nothing in GW2 levies a high skill ceiling demand anyway.  And if you're flaunting your high skill ceiling, what's the issue with learning to use the terrain a bit or predict a target or encounter with such massive AoEs?

If you're informing this opinion based on the top-performing meta builds, then yeah- I probably agree to an extent... but if you're trying to be competitive with extremely under-performing builds (especially those requiring extensive practice and complex combinations in order to be effective) then I think you can find plenty of "high skill ceiling" options. 

P.S. Learning to predict opponents and utilize terrain is literally like step one of any real competitive play- that's not even a valid critique. 

 

On 9/25/2022 at 11:55 PM, shion.2084 said:

Any scrapper still playing it needs to use every active defence and reposition they can.  There are so few even half competent (4 gyro builds need not apply)
 

He’s independently said exactly what I have. The last think scrapper had that could hold it was the quickness and mobility.  This will just finish it in moderate to high level pvp

Yeah, this is true. The (few) well-played scrappers won't generally rely on any passive defenses and will have to utilize heavy kiting/active blocks in-between opportune windows for dealing damage. It's a very much a get in, deal damage, get out playstyle. Damage avoidance is the goal; face-tanking damage is not a thing if you're running a damage-focused build ... and at least for those playing my style of scrapper, quickness has largely been what has allowed us to get off skills fast enough to deal damage and sustain in this meta. 

 

On 9/27/2022 at 3:28 PM, shion.2084 said:

Hey Alien.....

 

What I'm unclear on is if they understand that the quickness removal is what impacts PVP?   Are they reverting the change to kinetic accelerators?

Yeah... not sure. Still no idea why the nerf is coming... but I'm glad they rethought the stationary gyro thing (at least for now)... I'm waiting to see how much might/fury they're willing to give us in place of the quickness. If it's considerable, that might be enough to keep scrapper in the "okay" range. For example, if we can now rely on the fury from this trait instead of the fury from explosives, that will allow us to utilize other options. Whether it be the ability to have fury while also being traited for grenades, bringing the +10% damage trait, or even removing explosives entirely... we might be able to have some additional options there that *could* be good. Yet to be seen but I can be hopeful. 

Edit: I will say, however, that almost nothing will make up for the loss of party quickness. That, in particular, has allowed scrapper to really benefit the team during team fights. 

 

ALIEN

Edited by N A T E.3108
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I posted this elsewhere, but we have the third GM trait that synergies with Might (making it more effective thus effectively more might, as well as granting stab), so I'm kind of underwhelmed by another might + fury trait when we have options for might and fury.    It seems like a lazy... what do we put here since we're ripping off the quickness.   In PVP I'll probably now end up running mortar, Elix B, Elix Gun, and exile U.   I'll use bottom three in scrapper.  I've been playing with this build at plat 1 level currently.... its not as good as the quickness build.  It will get a bit better when the health increase comes along.... maybe I'll consider running rune of strength then with it.....

I'd like to find a way to get rid of alchemy and explosives to integrate the toolkit improvements (for you that's an awesome buff cause you use toolkit fundamentally).    I might look at replacing explosives with toolkit... but it will lower my health back to where it currently is, I'll loose explosive entrance, and the synergy with my mortar will be gone.

 

I've actually been debating core Engi with toolkit, explosives and alchemy.  I guess I could run grenade, Elix Gun, and elixir U if I was feeling brave.  But you'd be smashed in high tier play when you couldn't escape the super mobility creep and port on you stuff that has entered the game.....

I'm a bit glum.

Edited by shion.2084
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When the tool trait changes come, I'm waiting for the meme holo builds that look like this....
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAw6lNwOYasLWJOyXtPXA-e

You'll get bonus damage from your doge rolling... which will give you 10% damage increase and explosive entrance.   Your condi removal will be done by the tool belt.. .you can spam the rifle tool skill every 6 seconds and it will static discharge on top of it.
Your heal skill on medkit goes off every 14 seconds and triggers a bonus condi removal... plus you have condi removal on the medkit itself and when dropping out of forge.

The world will scream when you drop out of stealth and hit them with your burst.  We'll see nerf to everything in Engi... but the actual problem.

Edited by shion.2084
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I'm sad about the scrapper nerfs because my meme mortar scrapper build (my favorite build in PvP right now) will officially go in the garbage bin. 

But on the bright side, core engineer never looked better. I can see possibilities for both power and condi builds moving forward. 

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19 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

I'm sad about the scrapper nerfs because my meme mortar scrapper build (my favorite build in PvP right now) will officially go in the garbage bin. 

But on the bright side, core engineer never looked better. I can see possibilities for both power and condi builds moving forward. 

what's your current build?   

I've adjusted to the lack of quickness as best I could with this one... it will get slightly more powerful when the health penalty its removed.... I'm "surviving" in plat 1 currently.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlFwqYeMLWKO+TftfA-zZIPjSVAFMB0wAA

The addition of elixir B to my build hurts DPS AOE because I loose my giant field shredder.  It does give me access to stability in the form of the gyro now and the tool belt for B.  It also gives me some condi damage mitigation in the form of resolution.  Exlix B synergizes with the GM trait which provides stability and increases Might effectiveness.   
 

Having shredder allowed me AOE DPS, a pulsing stun, and the ability to continuously hurt things while dodge rolling kiting etc, which could swing fights.  It provided a disincentive for folks to pursue me when I was running away... er strategically repositioning to another vantage.

The loss of quickness is also a net DPS loss even given the might... as well kinetic accelerator had a concentration increase that I now lose.  The value of quickness was also in getting skills off faster which meant they landed more and were brought up in time... so hard to measure that in terms of just numbers.

The build still has two stun breaks.   Its mortar barrage is now more of a time filler without the easy access to quickness.   If I want to use elixir U to get quickness I have to lose a stun break... so its not something you want to do to just soften up the opponents before engaging close (your going to want a stun break in reserve).

Anyway the build will probably not be really competitive, but it can probably keep me in platinum... some folks eat it alive (the CKOD can't Cata guy eats it for breakfast for example).

Edited by shion.2084
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6 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

what's your current build?   

I've adjusted to the lack of quickness as best I could with this one... it will get slightly more powerful when the health penalty its removed.... I'm "surviving" in plat 1 currently.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlFwqYeMLWKO+TftfA-zZIPjSVAFMB0wAA

The addition of elixir B to my build hurts DPS AOE because I loose my giant field shredder.  It does give me access to stability in the form of the gyro now and the tool belt for B.  It also gives me some condi damage mitigation in the form of resolution.  Exlix B synergizes with the GM trait which provides stability and increases Might effectiveness.   
 

Having shredder allowed me AOE DPS, a pulsing stun, and the ability to continuously hurt things while dodge rolling kiting etc, which could swing fights.  It provided a disincentive for folks to pursue me when I was running away... er strategically repositioning to another vantage.

The loss of quickness is also a net DPS loss even given the might... as well kinetic accelerator had a concentration increase that I now lose.  The value of quickness was also in getting skills off faster which meant they landed more and were brought up in time... so hard to measure that in terms of just numbers.

The build still has two stun breaks.   Its mortar barrage is now more of a time filler without the easy access to quickness.   If I want to use elixir U to get quickness I have to lose a stun break... so its not something you want to do to just soften up the opponents before engaging close (your going to want a stun break in reserve).

Anyway the build will probably not be really competitive, but it can probably keep me in platinum... some folks eat it alive (the CKOD can't Cata guy eats it for breakfast for example).

The build I play(ed) wasn't amazing by any stretch, but it was very fun http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlRwgYOsGWKOsLvtUA-z5IeG9qACYCoyBA

Only one stunbreak and very weak to conditions, but it was godlike at generating downs, and you would utilize the superspeed and quickness to play hit and run and kite inbetween your bursts so the enemy would have minimal opportunities to take advantage of your weaknesses. The active defenses on hammer  also helped with with this, and you had bulwark gyro and defense field to negate melee and ranged bursts respectively. 

Losing quickness makes it much harder to go for those quick in and out bursts, which makes this build more vulnerable to counterpressure. 

I could probably theorycraft another build but this playstyle is pretty much dead. RIP fun meme build. 

 

Edited by Kuma.1503
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On 10/3/2022 at 9:28 PM, shion.2084 said:

I posted this elsewhere, but we have the third GM trait that synergies with Might (making it more effective thus effectively more might, as well as granting stab), so I'm kind of underwhelmed by another might + fury trait when we have options for might and fury.    It seems like a lazy... what do we put here since we're ripping off the quickness.   In PVP I'll probably now end up running mortar, Elix B, Elix Gun, and exile U.   I'll use bottom three in scrapper.  I've been playing with this build at plat 1 level currently.... its not as good as the quickness build.  It will get a bit better when the health increase comes along.... maybe I'll consider running rune of strength then with it.....

I'd like to find a way to get rid of alchemy and explosives to integrate the toolkit improvements (for you that's an awesome buff cause you use toolkit fundamentally).    I might look at replacing explosives with toolkit... but it will lower my health back to where it currently is, I'll loose explosive entrance, and the synergy with my mortar will be gone.

 

I've actually been debating core Engi with toolkit, explosives and alchemy.  I guess I could run grenade, Elix Gun, and elixir U if I was feeling brave.  But you'd be smashed in high tier play when you couldn't escape the super mobility creep and port on you stuff that has entered the game.....

I'm a bit glum.

I actually love this new fury+might grandmaster, as it allows us to take glass cannon trait in explosives to get a 10% dmg modifier. Before this patch the only other source of fury was from eli B and it wasn't enough for full coverage. 

 

With this change, I have constructed a scrapper build that does absolutely disgusting damage: (keep in mind the build editor is still outdated, but you can look in game for what the traits do) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlNwgYNsQWKO+X9tWA-zZIPjeVAZLBU5AA

--> This build is glassy and a bit meme, but it has so many dmg modifiers, plus you get 25 might (if you blast your firefield correctly) and the quickness from rune of chronomancer in your short burst window. Even though it isn't perma quickness anymore, its still invaluable during the burst. You can instadrop 15k-20k worth of damage into your thunderclap + blast gyro cc chain with function gyro + rocket kick (+ static discharge) + electrowhirl and then you still have hammer 3 and mortar to follow up with. I have hit 5.5k mortar crits in PvP with this setup. And with rocket boots you can play an in-and-out playstyle, and the superspeed you get from it synergizes nicely with the new fury gm trait. If the enemy comp doesn't require this amount of mobility, you can pick eli gun instead of it for some great cleave damage and another stunbreak. Arguably, you could run this with demo amulet and the dmg would probably still slap.

 

As for core engi, I will keep running the build I have used for over a year, which has recently been buffed with the rifle changes and now been further buffed with the added tools cleanses: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAQlNw+YXMPmKO8TZrTA-zZILjGLgeTATGAA

I find I have a good balance of mobility, damage, cc and survivability on this. Elixir X is so underrated imo. A good tornado can absolutely delete a teamfight and moa allows for some nice cheese kills with moa into rifle 3 root so they cant dodge/run, and then rifle 5 + 2 and prybar and usually they are dead. 

Edited by Koensol.5860
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I think it is good that the quickness is gone from pvp at the very least because aoe quickness is a very unhealthy mechanic that was turning some high dps classes into near unstoppable wreaking balls witht he scrapper nearby.

 

It also completely locked out build diversity, not that their change helped much with that since we already had a might oriented trait on that tier.

Edited by Stalima.5490
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3 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

I think it is good that the quickness is gone from pvp at the very least because aoe quickness is a very unhealthy mechanic that was turning some high dps classes into near unstoppable wreaking balls witht he scrapper nearby.

 

It also completely locked out build diversity, not that their change helped much with that since we already had a might oriented trait on that tier.

I would have been happy if they left it as at least self quickness.   Vs. giving me bonuses I had access to already from a number of means.

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5 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said:

I actually love this new fury+might grandmaster, as it allows us to take glass cannon trait in explosives to get a 10% dmg modifier. Before this patch the only other source of fury was from eli B and it wasn't enough for full coverage. 

 

With this change, I have constructed a scrapper build that does absolutely disgusting damage: (keep in mind the build editor is still outdated, but you can look in game for what the traits do) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlNwgYNsQWKO+X9tWA-zZIPjeVAZLBU5AA

--> This build is glassy and a bit meme, but it has so many dmg modifiers, plus you get 25 might (if you blast your firefield correctly) and the quickness from rune of chronomancer in your short burst window. Even though it isn't perma quickness anymore, its still invaluable during the burst. You can instadrop 15k-20k worth of damage into your thunderclap + blast gyro cc chain with function gyro + rocket kick (+ static discharge) + electrowhirl and then you still have hammer 3 and mortar to follow up with. I have hit 5.5k mortar crits in PvP with this setup. And with rocket boots you can play an in-and-out playstyle, and the superspeed you get from it synergizes nicely with the new fury gm trait. If the enemy comp doesn't require this amount of mobility, you can pick eli gun instead of it for some great cleave damage and another stunbreak. Arguably, you could run this with demo amulet and the dmg would probably still slap.

 

As for core engi, I will keep running the build I have used for over a year, which has recently been buffed with the rifle changes and now been further buffed with the added tools cleanses: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAQlNw+YXMPmKO8TZrTA-zZILjGLgeTATGAA

I find I have a good balance of mobility, damage, cc and survivability on this. Elixir X is so underrated imo. A good tornado can absolutely delete a teamfight and moa allows for some nice cheese kills with moa into rifle 3 root so they cant dodge/run, and then rifle 5 + 2 and prybar and usually they are dead. 


Cool, I did try something very similar to your glass build (except with divinity giving you 18.3k health).  And elixir gun vs. rocket boots.    
So in your build you took static discharge... which is I suppose really only reliable with the rocket boot kick (and otherwise  un-aimable).   and at 16k do you get 1 shotted by the untamed port macro?    

I've actually found that with a good dead eye these days 18.3k even is just too little to be survivable for me.

 

Does your blast come from the rocket boot?

And your sigil to give might when interrupting... that has 3 second cooldown, what are the interrupts you're looking at there?  Thunderclap I guess and your pulsing shredder toolbelt?  Is that better than say sigil of battle (might on weapon swap)

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4 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

I think it is good that the quickness is gone from pvp at the very least because aoe quickness is a very unhealthy mechanic that was turning some high dps classes into near unstoppable wreaking balls witht he scrapper nearby.

 

It also completely locked out build diversity, not that their change helped much with that since we already had a might oriented trait on that tier.

I'll be happy about this as soon as they're consistent about it and remove AoE quickness from hamburger. 

 

(why does my hamburger emoji not work anymore? I am sadness)

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