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thaniretouni.4762
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While warrior is literally a shadow of his old self and suffers pretty heavily in WvW why is Anet trying to fix only a few things and still nerfing others? I mean changing the shield master from creating might and basically promoting synergy with other traits like might makes right now it gives adrenaline? Also, a shield master who has a ton of secs of cd in both his shield skills? Its lame and boring. 

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30 minutes ago, thaniretouni.4762 said:

While warrior is literally a shadow of his old self and suffers pretty heavily in WvW why is Anet trying to fix only a few things and still nerfing others? I mean changing the shield master from creating might and basically promoting synergy with other traits like might makes right now it gives adrenaline? Also, a shield master who has a ton of secs of cd in both his shield skills? Its lame and boring. 

I agree about shield master. Woulda been better if they just buffed the might to last 5s per stack. Adrenaline gain is still good tho.

 

Also, I understand their desire to get away from CD reductions on traits, but it would be good if they then reduced the CDs to the traited levels; e. g., Shield 4 and 5 skills should have 16s and 24s baseline CDs, respectively. 

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they broke shield intentionally because they wanted to force people out of x/shield builds. 🥺😓

 

the approach was wrong on so many levels, they should've just increased the viability of our offhand options and ranged weapons. this would've made other builds more appealing.

 

many veteran warriors were already thinking outside the box and were running pretty unique setups.

 

oh wait.. they broke everything else, the underused, underpowered stuff to the point they became unviable. 😱 great. 😑

 

back on topic, now shield has a turtle slow animation on shield bash that hardly ever lands against someone walking, and absurdly high cooldown on both shield bash and shield block for what they do and as weapon skills. 😭

 

and yes the coming changes in Oct 4 won't fix all the problems they left, but right now any positively impactful change is welcome, and Oct 4 will be more positively impactful changes than we've seen in the past 7 years maybe, so whichever the case its something to be thankful for. 💪🔥

 

i only hope they follow through in warrior's development and update us enough to be close to what other classes are in terms function. 🙏

 

 

Edited by eXruina.4956
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36 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

they broke shield intentionally because they wanted to force people out of x/shield builds. 🥺😓

 

the approach was wrong on so many levels, they should've just increased the viability of our offhand options and ranged weapons. this would've made other builds more appealing.

 

many veteran warriors were already thinking outside the box and were running pretty unique setups.

 

oh wait.. they broke everything else, the underused, underpowered stuff to the point they became unviable. 😱 great. 😑

 

back on topic, now shield has a turtle slow animation on shield bash that hardly ever lands against someone walking, and absurdly high cooldown on both shield bash and shield block for what they do and as weapon skills. 😭

 

and yes the coming changes in Oct 4 won't fix all the problems they left, but right now any positively impactful change is welcome, and Oct 4 will be more positively impactful changes than we've seen in the past 7 years maybe, so whichever the case its something to be thankful for. 💪🔥

 

i only hope they follow through in warrior's development and update us enough to be close to what other classes are in terms function. 🙏

 

 

I kinda agree with you although i think the best thing happened to warrior when spellbreaker was first release. With the amount of blocks, mobility and evades other classes have, revenge counter yes was doing good dmg but it was needed. But spellbreaker has been nerfed so hard. I still run it with my dual daggers and doing kinda of ok but only in gvg. When 2v1 it is pretty sad. They should pump up spellbreaker quite a bit and make people run it not only as boring support.

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2 hours ago, thaniretouni.4762 said:

why is Anet trying to fix only a few things and still nerfing others?

The biggest mystery on the patch notes regarding warrior. I've been saying it on this forum since the patch preview. Warrior is not dominating anywhere, so why bother nerfing anything? We all remember how vicious soulbeast was with pet swap before and now the pet swap returns for the espec. No one bats an eye.

What of warrior? When was the last time this class has dominated in any area? We all know Bladesworn was using shouts as a crutch to hang in there at the top, so there's no counting that. Was it all that time ago when spellbreaker's full counter could do damage? Yes, I think that was the last time we stood at the mountain top.

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1 hour ago, eXruina.4956 said:

they broke shield intentionally because they wanted to force people out of x/shield builds. 🥺😓

 

the approach was wrong on so many levels, they should've just increased the viability of our offhand options and ranged weapons. this would've made other builds more appealing.

 

many veteran warriors were already thinking outside the box and were running pretty unique setups.

 

oh wait.. they broke everything else, the underused, underpowered stuff to the point they became unviable. 😱 great. 😑

 

back on topic, now shield has a turtle slow animation on shield bash that hardly ever lands against someone walking, and absurdly high cooldown on both shield bash and shield block for what they do and as weapon skills. 😭

 

and yes the coming changes in Oct 4 won't fix all the problems they left, but right now any positively impactful change is welcome, and Oct 4 will be more positively impactful changes than we've seen in the past 7 years maybe, so whichever the case its something to be thankful for. 💪🔥

 

i only hope they follow through in warrior's development and update us enough to be close to what other classes are in terms function. 🙏

 

 

I wouldn't say 7 years, I'd say 5 years because PoF was in 2017 and I'd say Spellbreaker release was pretty positively impactful. As was Bladesworn, just not in a positive way. Not that its weak, just that with the way it has been working in competitive play...it isn't healthy gameplay.

I too hope that we see more impactful changes to Warrior in the coming months. November will tell us more, but we will have to wait until next year to get a better grasp on if ANet continues this trend of better balance changes. CMC being at the helm of it is an indication of things getting better, at the very least, especially seeing these Oct 4th changes coming.

Specifically I hope we'll see buffs to Warrior, because it does need them just hopefully not enough to bloat it a ton because then we'll just be right back to people whining about it too much, but also nerfs to the classes that got bloated due to certain bias that were present (Mechanist, Firebrand, etc), and also just further "retractions" of that tradeoff stuff that they didn't commit to for everything.

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The shield change especially seems targetted at every class. Shields have now been nerfed across the board for unknown reasons--literally every shield has been overhauled in the last 6mos. It seems the devs want to get away from the passive gameplay that shields give, especially considering they add a ton of armor to glassy builds since your first ~200ish points into armor make the biggest difference against damage.

Edited by Mariyuuna.6508
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19 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

The shield change especially seems targetted at every class. Shields have now been nerfed across the board for unknown reasons--literally every shield has been overhauled in the last 6mos. It seems the devs want to get away from the passive gameplay that shields give, especially considering they add a ton of armor to glassy builds since your first ~200ish points into armor make the biggest difference against damage.

Then they need to buff the other offhand options. Personally I like my viking shield wall kitten with axe/shield. OH sword could use some attention, OH Mace, OH dagger. Also buff/rework Warrior's Utility skill options. Stances may likely see a return to general use with the Defense rework, but there are still Signets and basically all of the other Physical skills minus Bull's Charge.

Warrior in fact, I would argue, has the worst functioning Signets out of any other class in the game. Especially when comparing it to newer ones like Mechanist. They gave them a Teleport...and hell the active heal on Mechanist's Rectifier Signet is 2x better than Warrior's Healing Signet while maintaining the same passive healing amount and that passive healing is even buffed with their Sky Circus trait. They have the same function, yet Healing Signet is also 1 1/4 cast time (Rectifier Signet being 3/4 cast time), but it gives a little smidge of Resistance. Ooh. Strong.

Just all around ick. They still have a lot of work to do to bring things more in line.

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1 hour ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

Then they need to buff the other offhand options. Personally I like my viking shield wall kitten with axe/shield. OH sword could use some attention, OH Mace, OH dagger. Also buff/rework Warrior's Utility skill options. Stances may likely see a return to general use with the Defense rework, but there are still Signets and basically all of the other Physical skills minus Bull's Charge.

Warrior in fact, I would argue, has the worst functioning Signets out of any other class in the game. Especially when comparing it to newer ones like Mechanist. They gave them a Teleport...and hell the active heal on Mechanist's Rectifier Signet is 2x better than Warrior's Healing Signet while maintaining the same passive healing amount and that passive healing is even buffed with their Sky Circus trait. They have the same function, yet Healing Signet is also 1 1/4 cast time (Rectifier Signet being 3/4 cast time), but it gives a little smidge of Resistance. Ooh. Strong.

Just all around ick. They still have a lot of work to do to bring things more in line.

The main reason they don't buff anything useable by core classes is because they can be combined with elite specs to reach rediculous power levels, and that's why Core Warrior especially is in such bad state. Its easier for them to balance subclass-only skills, traits and weapons because they can't be combined with anything else (except core stuff), which doesn't result in the same situation.

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5 hours ago, thaniretouni.4762 said:

Also, a shield master who has a ton of secs of cd in both his shield skills? Its lame and boring

Yea, I at least want a follow up from both shield skills. Like, if you hit [shield bash], a follow up attack could be a knockdown, knockback or refresh burst, maybe a full attack that hits harder on disabled foes. For shield 5 skill, there could be a benefit for holding the block for it's entirety without being interrupted or cutting it short, benefit such as stability or barrier.

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4 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

I wouldn't say 7 years, I'd say 5 years because PoF was in 2017 and I'd say Spellbreaker release was pretty positively impactful. As was Bladesworn, just not in a positive way. Not that its weak, just that with the way it has been working in competitive play...it isn't healthy gameplay.

I too hope that we see more impactful changes to Warrior in the coming months. November will tell us more, but we will have to wait until next year to get a better grasp on if ANet continues this trend of better balance changes. CMC being at the helm of it is an indication of things getting better, at the very least, especially seeing these Oct 4th changes coming.

Specifically I hope we'll see buffs to Warrior, because it does need them just hopefully not enough to bloat it a ton because then we'll just be right back to people whining about it too much, but also nerfs to the classes that got bloated due to certain bias that were present (Mechanist, Firebrand, etc), and also just further "retractions" of that tradeoff stuff that they didn't commit to for everything.

also @thaniretouni.4762

 

the keyword here is "at release", berserker was also really good when it first came out to be fair.

 

anet eventually gutted all of them, and did alot of unnecessary collateral damage along the way, collateral damage which piled up over the years.

 

i'm also hopeful of better days, we've seen glimpses of light before, but they have repeated this cycle over the years. the nights have been far longer than days and the moon is cracked and blasted. 💔

 

i have high hopes on cmc too, 🎉 just like i did during feb 2020, and i had high hopes of a followthrough even though the patch literally killed warrior. 🙏

 

but this old warrior has been shattered one too many times. 🦋💥 we all know how that patch ended up, and we know better. 😵

 

this time around i'm hoping for some instant gratification. 💦🤣

 

come' ere Oct 4, 10 days and counting down 💪🔥

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15 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

also @thaniretouni.4762

 

the keyword here is "at release", berserker was also really good when it first came out to be fair.

 

anet eventually gutted all of them, and did alot of unnecessary collateral damage along the way, collateral damage which piled up over the years.

 

i'm also hopeful of better days, we've seen glimpses of light before, but they have repeated this cycle over the years. the nights have been far longer than days and the moon is cracked and blasted. 💔

 

i have high hopes on cmc too, 🎉 just like i did during feb 2020, and i had high hopes of a followthrough even though the patch literally killed warrior. 🙏

 

but this old warrior has been shattered one too many times. 🦋💥 we all know how that patch ended up, and we know better. 😵

 

this time around i'm hoping for some instant gratification. 💦🤣

 

come' ere Oct 4, 10 days and counting down 💪🔥

All we can do is pray and try our best to play the classes that we love. As for berserker on release was a bit meh for me since the strongest build was condi one. I wanted a berserker. A monster that ignores pain and gains more power the more wounded he is. Instead i go pew pew fire with my torch 😄 then it became a bit better before it was gutted

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Comepletely fine with it

Warrior has played shield without shield mastery for ages already, given how defense has been irrelevant for so long.

 

It is easier to balance and adjust the power level without cdr anyway

They probably could not make this many changes for defense if shield cdr exist.

and will make shield mastery too good over other adepts given how common is shield already without shield mastery

 

also 90% of the changes are tailored for berserker so block adrenaline makes sense, since berserker has been struggling with adrenaline in pvp for ages now.

On top of that, the might has been irrelevant and the synergy with mmr is minimum and inconsistent when you already have tactic

Edited by Lighter.5631
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18 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

The main reason they don't buff anything useable by core classes is because they can be combined with elite specs to reach rediculous power levels, and that's why Core Warrior especially is in such bad state. Its easier for them to balance subclass-only skills, traits and weapons because they can't be combined with anything else (except core stuff), which doesn't result in the same situation.

ok, i can accept that but where is my spellbreakers dagger buffs since both shield trait and axe 5 is getting nerfed

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20 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

The main reason they don't buff anything useable by core classes is because they can be combined with elite specs to reach rediculous power levels, and that's why Core Warrior especially is in such bad state. Its easier for them to balance subclass-only skills, traits and weapons because they can't be combined with anything else (except core stuff), which doesn't result in the same situation.

Yup, which is an inherent design flaw with Elite Specializations that throws a big wrench in their balance endeavors. Which means they need to find ways to circumvent this issue. Two big examples of this issue, at least the ones at the forefront of my mind, are Holosmith and Bladesworn.

Holosmith, at least a past version of it, was actually particularly bloated (honestly it still is). A big part of why this was the case was due to Core Engineer traits supplementing its damage and sustain so significantly. Elixir related traits, Explosion related traits, and Boon and Barrier application. Holosmith's kit alone was not the prime issue, Core Engineer traits laid out the groundwork, Holosmith filled out the rest.

Bladesworn is the more recent one. Bladesworn sustain is good by itself, Combat Stimulant is probably one of the strongest heals Warrior has in the game, Mending coming in second. What bloated Bladesworn's sustain was Shout heals and how the ammo charges on them could be refreshed with Tactical Reload. Shout heals were not its prime form of huge healing, but they absolutely were additions that bloated the sustain it could maintain over the course of a fight.

Both are examples of a "Core" mechanic from the class exacerbating an inlaid strength to the Elite Specialization.

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Why adding shield weapon to the game, if later they don't want people to use one? I don't understand..

 

As someone that always mixed both active and passive defense and sorry but blocking is active defense? Anyways.. I am a bit puzzled as to how I am supposed to play the game sometimes.. if it's just stack, spam boons and follow a rotation and win the dps race.... might not be the game for me. /shrug

 

Also yes I always prefered to play x/shield in any game that allows it but the community always was angry at me for doing so (despise NOT being a tank, I just love my block/parry/cc and well, shield in off hand look better than another weapon in my opinion)

 

But oh well....

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LOL i don't know how you guys would think everybody would suddenly stop using shield

when literally every top build already uses shield without defense line.

 

if you taking shield stance solely for the reason to synergy with might, you are taking a garbage build.

 

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On 9/26/2022 at 1:48 PM, prototypedragon.1406 said:

@thaniretouni.4762 Berserk power Warrior at a time very very long ago was a monster to be feared in the heat of battle.

Https://youtu.be/HyytJyAHDJI

soulbeast stood there took all the hit without dodging once, nor using skills

a single shocking aura would completely fk this berserker up

but not a single shocking aura from tempest

and the tempest self canceled his lightning overload

and the tempest is using some meme glyph of storm, that not even pve uses, and is casting skill to nothing.

reaper is back peddling for years and casting 1 skill every 5 second and with how the soulbeast moved, i wouldn't surprise he's using a controller.

 

 

you would only see players like these in silver tier pvp and that's 3 tier below gold bot tier.

at this point it would be harder to solo champion then killing these guys

 

i wouldn't call this a monster to be very honestly.

 

Edited by felix.2386
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43 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

soulbeast stood there took all the hit without dodging once, nor using skills

a single shocking aura would completely fk this berserker up

but not a single shocking aura from tempest

and the tempest self canceled his lightning overload

and the tempest is using some meme glyph of storm, that not even pve uses, and is casting skill to nothing.

reaper is back peddling for years and casting 1 skill every 5 second and with how the soulbeast moved, i wouldn't surprise he's using a controller.

 

 

you would only see players like these in silver tier pvp and that's 3 tier below gold bot tier.

at this point it would be harder to solo champion then killing these guys

 

i wouldn't call this a monster to be very honestly.

 

Y I agree but besrkerer in 2018-2019 was insanely good. at least the way i played it.

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On 9/25/2022 at 8:59 PM, eXruina.4956 said:

they broke shield intentionally because they wanted to force people out of x/shield builds. 🥺😓

That's assuming that people were using defense traitline before... But, yeah, shield trait will be plain bad after the update and this doesn't make much sense.

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1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That's assuming that people were using defense traitline before... But, yeah, shield trait will be plain bad after the update and this doesn't make much sense.

The trait would be more useful if:

1) shield had its baseline CDs reduced (since the trait no longer does this)

2) other weapons that block, esp MH mace and OH sword, get reworked so that they are useful.

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12 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

The trait would be more useful if:

1) shield had its baseline CDs reduced (since the trait no longer does this)

2) other weapons that block, esp MH mace and OH sword, get reworked so that they are useful.

Do you mean that adrenaline on block is useful?

The shield trait would be useful if it affected all skills and effect that block incoming attack. Including: shattering blow and flaming fury (berserker), Bladestorm and wind of disenchantment (Spellbreaker), aegis, cyclone trigger and electric fence (Bladesworn).

Even then, just gaining adrenaline wouldn't be that interesting for the skills that already reflect projectiles.

NB: reflect count as a block for the unblockable effect since quite a few years so there is no reason for a trait that's supposed to proc on block to not trigger on reflect.

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3 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Do you mean that adrenaline on block is useful?

The shield trait would be useful if it affected all skills and effect that block incoming attack. Including: shattering blow and flaming fury (berserker), Bladestorm and wind of disenchantment (Spellbreaker), aegis, cyclone trigger and electric fence (Bladesworn).

Even then, just gaining adrenaline wouldn't be that interesting for the skills that already reflect projectiles.

NB: reflect count as a block for the unblockable effect since quite a few years so there is no reason for a trait that's supposed to proc on block to not trigger on reflect.

Adrenaline on block isn't bad. I would have preferred keeping the might (but making it longer than 1s in competitive), but another source of adrenaline would be fine.

 

Being able to turn counterblow and riposte into reflects increases their usefulness immensely. Counterblow, for example, only blocks a single ranged attack when you don't take shield master, but will block/reflect projectiles for the entire duration of the skill if you do take shield master.

 

Currently, those skills really only see use on condi mace zerker, but if those weapons were reworked (e.g., change counterblow and riposte to be full blocks with flipover skills) they would open the door for various new builds--which would benefit from having access to lots of reflects offered by shield master.

 

Also, I believe shield master actually DOES turn aegis into a reflect (it is a full block, not just a projectile block), but it does not affect skills that only block/destroy projectiles. 

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