stats comparison between classes and injustice for warrior

[felix.2386]

since last time, i compared base stats of willbender to warrior

i've realized this is really a good way to actually compare classes with similar base stats and what they can do, for actual balancing.

as before there were actually gaps between stats, but now similar to how willbender pre nerf having exactly same vitality and toughness yet completely out performs warrior in anyway possible and having teleports etc.

 

now i see another class

which is power herald in pvp

base vitality, revenant has 20% less HP compared to warrior

herald gives 10%, and now as meta runes, divinity also gives 10%, giving power herald exactly 20k hp, slightly higher then all dps based pvp warrior build.

 

while the 20% HP can be easily obtained through stats from runes.

the abilities and mechanics, warrior will never be able to obtain

 

no dps warrior will be able to match it's burst potential, mobility, plus potential, team fight potential and still able to 1v1 on top of every thing

while having basically the same hp and same armor.

 

you can infinitely buff all over sustain, so all warrior specs can only play this same one role and cannibalize each other.

but will just end up getting nerfed in to oblivion like bladesworn,

 

spellbreaker has a chance as full counter is incredibly busted as a side noder skill, and actually help with getting plus'ed

 

but berserker on the other hand, does not have the ability to fight more then 1 person.

defense may possibly make it able to survive against multiple people finally, but it will still do completely nothing in a team fight.

and full counter paired with defense will still make spellbreaker infinitely better even tho it also does minimum in a team fight as dps spec.

and berserker gets completely outshined by power herald in every single way even with the new traits and skills

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Base Effective Health isn't really a reason to hold back on things like evades, blind access, weakness, or boons like protection and resolution.

That said with the incoming Defense rework you'll see warrior self sustain increase due to the new Cull the Weak, Resistance on Dodge trait, Prot on heal, and AH not needing to hit anymore to proc.

To be honest other specs should have to trait into such a traitline for such sustain rather than having it built into weapon skills and utilities. But here we are.

I think that after the next patch, if we all see warrior sustain still lacking behind the pack in effectiveness, then things like an evade on Staggering Blow, an evade on Savage Leap, an Evade on Aura Slicer, and so forth become legitimate items of discussion.

To me, any 2H or 1H on warrior should have either a block, evade, or blind.
Weapons that fit that bill:

MH Mace,
GS
Rifle
LB

Weapons that don't:

MH sword
MH Axe
MH dagger
Hammer
Gunsaber

OH that do:

Pistol
Shield
Sword

So... Savage Leap, Blooming Fire (because the UW version has it...), Staggering Blow, Aura Slicer, and Cyclone axe should all have 3/4s evades, to me at least. Warrior, at base level, does not have much active sustain, just lots of resustain. The Defense rework will address some of it. It is hard to argue against protection and weakness access, but that pigeonholes the warrior into defense when they need more active sustain on their MH/2H weapon sets. Bear in mind, naysayers, that I'm at most asking for 2 more evades on the warrior kit. Some classes get to spam evades willy nilly, or can take 7 across the utility bar, profession mechanic, and 2 weapon bars in addition to a 3s block. What I am asking for warrior here is NOT AT ALL OUT OF THE NORM. 

[felix.2386]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Base Effective Health isn't really a reason to hold back on things like evades, blind access, weakness, or boons like protection and resolution.

That said with the incoming Defense rework you'll see warrior self sustain increase due to the new Cull the Weak, Resistance on Dodge trait, Prot on heal, and AH not needing to hit anymore to proc.

To be honest other specs should have to trait into such a traitline for such sustain rather than having it built into weapon skills and utilities. But here we are.

I think that after the next patch, if we all see warrior sustain still lacking behind the pack in effectiveness, then things like an evade on Staggering Blow, an evade on Savage Leap, an Evade on Aura Slicer, and so forth become legitimate items of discussion.

To me, any 2H or 1H on warrior should have either a block, evade, or blind.
Weapons that fit that bill:

MH Mace,
GS
Rifle
LB

Weapons that don't:

MH sword
MH Axe
MH dagger
Hammer
Gunsaber

OH that do:

Pistol
Shield
Sword

So... Savage Leap, Blooming Fire (because the UW version has it...), Staggering Blow, Aura Slicer, and Cyclone axe should all have 3/4s evades, to me at least. Warrior, at base level, does not have much active sustain, just lots of resustain. The Defense rework will address some of it. It is hard to argue against protection and weakness access, but that pigeonholes the warrior into defense when they need more active sustain on their MH/2H weapon sets. Bear in mind, naysayers, that I'm at most asking for 2 more evades on the warrior kit. Some classes get to spam evades willy nilly, or can take 7 across the utility bar, profession mechanic, and 2 weapon bars in addition to a 3s block. What I am asking for warrior here is NOT AT ALL OUT OF THE NORM. 

 

before stats differences has been the prime excuses for others to complain to not buff warrior,

but now given how easily it is to cover vitality without sacrificing too much

it has been clearer then ever how completely outdated warrior is.

[eXruina.4956]

For Great Justice! ✊

[Gorem.8104]

And yet, you have Hizen solo'ing the Tower of Nightmare as a Bladesworn before the update that I still think will nerf defence's survivability gains in open world but that remains to be seen. 

Regardless, Bladesworn is basically the build Warriors will need to play as to remain relevant, even with Spellbreaker benching high, its still just a useless benchmark that doesn't truly mean anything. 

Bladesworn before any changes was already able to do anything required of it. REally the changes they should have made should have been more towards giving us something other then 4 melee spec dps power choices. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

10 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

And yet, you have Hizen solo'ing the Tower of Nightmare as a Bladesworn before the update that I still think will nerf defence's survivability gains in open world but that remains to be seen. 

Regardless, Bladesworn is basically the build Warriors will need to play as to remain relevant, even with Spellbreaker benching high, its still just a useless benchmark that doesn't truly mean anything. 

Bladesworn before any changes was already able to do anything required of it. REally the changes they should have made should have been more towards giving us something other then 4 melee spec dps power choices. 

This thread is talking about PvP/WvW primarily (although many of the proposed changes would effect PvE skills too).

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

And yet, you have Hizen solo'ing the Tower of Nightmare as a Bladesworn before the update that I still think will nerf defence's survivability gains in open world but that remains to be seen. 

Regardless, Bladesworn is basically the build Warriors will need to play as to remain relevant, even with Spellbreaker benching high, its still just a useless benchmark that doesn't truly mean anything. 

Bladesworn before any changes was already able to do anything required of it. REally the changes they should have made should have been more towards giving us something other then 4 melee spec dps power choices. 

That has more to do with Immortal Dragon and Dragon Slash being bloated damage in PvE, you can solo all kinds of things because of bloated sustain in PvE. This discussion is centered on PvP/WvW though.

As to the changes they should be making, the things they did touch did need it. They need to revisit Longbow, Rifle, and the OH melee pistol and in light of their philosophy rule 0, that there are no rules. They need to accept that forcing warrior so heavily into melee is itself a big problem, in all game modes.
 

[felix.2386]

5 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

And yet, you have Hizen solo'ing the Tower of Nightmare as a Bladesworn before the update that I still think will nerf defence's survivability gains in open world but that remains to be seen. 

Regardless, Bladesworn is basically the build Warriors will need to play as to remain relevant, even with Spellbreaker benching high, its still just a useless benchmark that doesn't truly mean anything. 

Bladesworn before any changes was already able to do anything required of it. REally the changes they should have made should have been more towards giving us something other then 4 melee spec dps power choices. 

because all PvE require is numbers nothing else matters, mobility, kitting, positioning matters nothing.

as long as you have the numbers up with the right build, every class can solo this content, not like this is hard content to begin with

 

there's already a mace shield mech solo, knowing how mace shield mech work, do you think classes like specter, harb, herald etc can't solo this?

 

pve is so simple that if you make a stick man with only 1 skill and does 130 range melee 50k damage every second and heal 1k hp per sec and only has 2 dodges, it will be the most OP class in pve.

it has 0 mechanics 0 utilities, but it will still be the most op class in pve, because all pve need is numbers.

but in pvp/wvw this stick man, will get destroyed in no time.

 

caring about pve balance and thinking skill changes will matter in pve is literal joke, you can remove 50% of warrior skills but make it deal 50k dps and it will be the most op class.

in pve, no skill changes matter as long as the numbers is up there which is the easiest thing to tweak about a class.

not the same in pvp, you can not do too much damage in a single hit, DT hit just like any other big hit skill on any other classes, unlike in pve. which is why skills mechanics matters way more, because the stats are capped and fixed in pvp.

 

hopefully this deepens your thought, i don't want to see another "but but this solo'ed pve content by killing damage sponge AIs" non sense

Edited September 28, 2022 by felix.2386

[Vancho.8750]

7 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

And yet, you have Hizen solo'ing the Tower of Nightmare as a Bladesworn before the update that I still think will nerf defence's survivability gains in open world but that remains to be seen. 

Regardless, Bladesworn is basically the build Warriors will need to play as to remain relevant, even with Spellbreaker benching high, its still just a useless benchmark that doesn't truly mean anything. 

Bladesworn before any changes was already able to do anything required of it. REally the changes they should have made should have been more towards giving us something other then 4 melee spec dps power choices. 

Hizen Has Solo Build For EVERY profession. Don't try to single out Warrior it is not even on top of the tier list.

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Vancho.8750

[Gorem.8104]

1 hour ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Hizen Has Solo Build For EVERY profession. Don't try to single out Warrior it is not even on top of the tier list.

 

I wasn't doing that though? Also you realise you are in the Warrior profession forum section right? 😛 Your post is actually confusing. 

[Vancho.8750]

11 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I wasn't doing that though? Also you realise you are in the Warrior profession forum section right? 😛 Your post is actually confusing. 

The thread is about comparison between warrior and the rest of the professions. 

[Kalthea.4326]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I wasn't doing that though? Also you realise you are in the Warrior profession forum section right? 😛 Your post is actually confusing. 

The issue was that you brought up Hizen's video as a seeming counter-point to someone talking about Warrior needing updates to their active defenses, implying that "Warrior is fine because this one person who dedicates their entire channel to min-maxing builds and solving content was able to survive just fine."

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

27 minutes ago, Kalthea.4326 said:

The issue was that you brought up Hizen's video as a seeming counter-point to someone talking about Warrior needing updates to their active defenses, implying that "Warrior is fine because this one person who dedicates their entire channel to min-maxing builds and solving content was able to survive just fine."

The problem is that not everyone recognizes that certain posters post only in regards to competitive games modes, and some only for PvE. It's true that warrior can solo hard kitten in PvE, like most classes if built a certain way, while also being true that warrior is also in a rough spot defense wise in competitive play.

[felix.2386]

5 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I wasn't doing that though? Also you realise you are in the Warrior profession forum section right? 😛 Your post is actually confusing. 

Oh you weren't? what a joke