How much timer is usually left on DE completion?

[Firebeard.1746]

Just curious. I had my first DE completion yesterday and it was ridiculously easy compared to the times I failed it and i believe it was because DPS was so high. . I don't think i saw tail once. So now i'm curious how often a "close" call actually happens when the meta succeeds, as my failed attempts have shown me that it easily devolves into bullet hell if DPS isn't high enough.

 

On the failed attempts  I generally tried not to be too picky when it came to my groups, going from semi organized (comm took boon roles available) to not as organized. Now, based on my experience, it feels like a double dps check. There's a fake one in the timer, and then the real one in how many mechanics you can skip. 

 

Also, if i ever do it again, i'm going to be SUPER picky now that I know the mechanics are just there to punish you for not having a full raid comp. 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Randulf.7614]

My one and only DE play through (and my first time entering that map) was two weeks ago and we succeeded with a minute to spare. 
 

It had a commander, but I saw no requests for group set ups or dps checks. People just played the events in front of them, followed the tag or split up as needed and enough followed instructions when called out.

Use that anecdotal data as you see fit

Edited September 28, 2022 by Randulf.7614

[Debesyla.7102]

Over the past ~10 runs I had this month the median was ~8min left. Yes, it is pretty easy nowaday, even with a random PUG.

[AliamRationem.5172]

In my experience, groups that organize into subgroups with support and prepare by completing events pretty much don't fail.  Groups that don't organize and are just thrown together at the last minute still fail, but such groups are pretty hard to come by anyway. 

[Astralporing.1957]

The usual results i see is that you either win with ~6 minutes to spare, or the timer runs out during the last 20% phase.

[Shikaru.7618]

Between 6 to 8 minutes is what I've seen with full raid comps. Low dps is really punishing on this fight. Nowadays most squads don't bother killing the tail even when dps is lacking. Think of the tail as a x3 multiplier to soowons current hp to the next phase. Most raid squads can dps at least 15% if not more of soo wins hp before tail happens. This means 15% of non mitigated damage and 5% reduced (roughly 15% of effective hp) totalling to about needing to do 30% of soowons total hp to phase if people are really slacking. An open world squad will maybe get 10% before tail on a good day. This means that they need to do 40% of soowons total max hp just to phase.

 

Raid squad on a bad day will need to do 150% of soowons hp over the course of the encounter. Open world squad needs to do 200% of her hp. Also remember that open world squad dps will be significantly lower than the raid squad so the higher effective hp pool is further worsened by the open world squad going at a much slower rate.

 

Don't think any of this is a problem. It's about time people learned how not be bad. Just trying to illustrate why it's such a stark difference.

[Daniyyel.3428]

seems to me anywhere from 2-7 min on average.  It also depends on how many alt accounts are leeching.  Seen up to 11 once and the fight got down to the last min.  Still doable with this going on though.   Had a person bragging about having 5 accounts there. thankfully it's not all the time I see this problem.

Edited September 28, 2022 by danielrjones.8759

[idpersona.3810]

Completed this fight 3 times in the last week. (It was a much better experience than when I had tried months ago)

Time left was 36 seconds, 5 1/2 minutes and 9 minutes 30 seconds or so.

At least with the increased chance of success, this meta doesn't feel like a complete waste of time anymore. It was really rough trying to accomplish this one early on. I think I went 3 for 14 before this last week. Very disheartening.

[yoni.7015]

Between 5 and 8 minutes. Haven’t seen it fail since one week after EoD launch. 

[Silent.6137]

2 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

There's a fake one in the timer, and then the real one in how many mechanics you can skip. 

Also, if i ever do it again, i'm going to be SUPER picky now that I know the mechanics are just there to punish you for not having a full raid comp.

1 hour ago, Shikaru.7618 said:

Between 6 to 8 minutes is what I've seen with full raid comps.

The only thing organized squads try to do is split subs into 10 groups of 5 with an Alac and a Quick, if possible. No other requirements. Calling it full raid comps is totally misleading.

Not doing the mechanics is how squads fail. The only one that most squads skip is the Tail. You can't skip anything else. Not getting out of AoEs will guarantee you being with very little HP or being downed or full dead depending on which attack it is.

1 hour ago, danielrjones.8759 said:

seems to me anywhere from 2-7 min on average.  It also depends on how many alt accounts are leeching.  Seen up to 11 once and the fight got down to the last min.  Still doable with this going on though.

Average for an organized group is usually 5 to 8 minutes left. As you had seen, there will always be leechers trying to game the system. Squad leaders for DE are constantly blocking and kicking them so can fill the squad with those that actually contribute.

--------

Tails are ignored because running across or splitting up, you'll lose a significant amount of damage anyways. The only other reason organized squads have more time remaining are due to the splits at 60 and 20%. Just make sure they are killed at the same time and be ready to help out the slow splits. A lot of time are wasted when the splits are not done properly.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Firebeard.1746]

1 hour ago, Silent.6137 said:

The only thing organized squads try to do is split subs into 10 groups of 5 with an Alac and a Quick, if possible. No other requirements. Calling it full raid comps is totally misleading.

Really? Elaborate. To me, full boons = raid comp, because that's the lynchpin of any raid group is full organization around boons. 

[Shikaru.7618]

7 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Really? Elaborate. To me, full boons = raid comp, because that's the lynchpin of any raid group is full organization around boons. 

Technically they're correct. Aside from ensuring boon roles are covered commanders don't ask people to be a meta dps, or a healer. The rest of the slots could be filled with nomad open worlders. What point they're trying to make in regards to this thread though is beyond me.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Shikaru.7618

[Silent.6137]

6 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Really? Elaborate. To me, full boons = raid comp, because that's the lynchpin of any raid group is full organization around boons. 

No Heals, power or condi distinctions, no tanks, no other boons asked for. Alac and Quick only. If don't have 10 of each, just fill randomly. That is hardly full boons or a raid comp.

[Firebeard.1746]

20 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

No Heals, power or condi distinctions, no tanks, no other boons asked for. Alac and Quick only. If don't have 10 of each, just fill randomly. That is hardly full boons or a raid comp.

Let's be honest though: might and fury are plentiful enough you have all boons covered with those. You may run no heals but comm told me to bring an HB. So the only distinction we're talking about is specific dps roles, which depending on the raid sometimes doesn't matter, i.e either is good enough. So you're just talking tanks. So to me, you're splitting hairs at this point. But okay. 

[Ashen.2907]

Ive done this meta a few times. Only one falure, probably due to all of the people who died and refused to WP ad rejoin the fight (all the while complaining that the meta was impossible-hint: everything is impossible if you dont make an effort to do it, or tossing insults at those still up for not rezzing them). The others have had at least a minute or two left on the timer.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Silent.6137]

11 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Let's be honest though: might and fury are plentiful enough you have all boons covered with those. You may run no heals but comm told me to bring an HB. So the only distinction we're talking about is specific dps roles, which depending on the raid sometimes doesn't matter, i.e either is good enough. So you're just talking tanks. So to me, you're splitting hairs at this point. But okay. 

Splitting hairs? Ok, take 2 5-person subgroups from these metas and go do raids. Let's see how successful you'd be.

[LuRkEr.9462]

Generally have around 5-6 minutes left. I run it pretty much every day and haven't seen a fail in like 3 months. I either command it or join groups that set sub groups though. Alac/Quickness and 3 dps per group is basic stuff and if groups aren't doing it, its probably going to have issues.

[Firebeard.1746]

57 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Splitting hairs? Ok, take 2 5-person subgroups from these metas and go do raids. Let's see how successful you'd be.

If I had the time to I would, i'm sure arc can show me which sub groups peform the best. If i see trinket effects i'll know they're raiders. I can even lead some raids. I bet you raiders in a lot of the successful groups are carrying, given the massive amount of mechanic skipping you can do with high dps.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Silent.6137]

2 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

If I had the time to I would, i'm sure arc can show me which sub groups peform the best. If i see trinket effects i'll know they're raiders. I can even lead some raids. I bet you raiders in a lot of the successful groups are carrying.

Form 5 raids teams from the meta: Sub1 & Sub2 as Team A, etc. Form a DE meta with 5 Raid teams.. Since everything is covered as you claimed, the chances of success will be fairly even, right? They're all raid comp with full boons, right?

Be honest. Which one will you bet on?

[Firebeard.1746]

6 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

Form 5 raids teams from the meta: Sub1 & Sub2 as Team A, etc. Form a DE meta with 5 Raid teams.. Since everything is covered as you claimed, the chances of success will be fairly even, right? They're all raid comp with full boons, right?

Be honest. Which one will you bet on?

That's not what you originally posited as the composition. So it's irrelevant. be honest is no one doing raid level dps on the clears?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Silent.6137]

19 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

That's not what you originally posited as the composition: be honest is no one doing raid level dps on the clears?

 

I mean snebzor himself is saying people running suboptimal builds are toxic.  So either it's the way to play or it's not. 

My original post: The only thing organized squads try to do is split subs into 10 groups of 5 with an Alac and a Quick, if possible. No other requirements. Calling it full raid comps is totally misleading.

I never said there are no raiders or anyone not doing raid level clears. To say so will be misleading since I do Raid as well. But what you're doing is ascribing a false equivalency by calling it "having a full raid comp". If you'd to take any 2 of those subgroups and form a raid team, they might or might not have 2 Alac and 2 Quick. No other requirements. Period.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Firebeard.1746]

10 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

My original post: The only thing organized squads try to do is split subs into 10 groups of 5 with an Alac and a Quick, if possible. No other requirements. Calling it full raid comps is totally misleading.

I never said there are no raiders or anyone not doing raid level clears. To say so will be misleading since I do Raids as well. But what you're doing is ascribing a fall equivalency by calling it "having a full raid comp".

90% of the composition is just boons, which is what i meant by that, commanders have and do use healers. 

 

Are you seriously arguing the presence or absence of a tank is the differentiation? When some raids don't use them at all? And each of those 5 man sub groups you reference is trying to match the boon output of a raid? If there are people required to run full dps builds to succeed then i'm not not far off. 

 

Did i say DE was raid level difficulty or that i could bring people straight into a raid? You're the one that took it there.

 

Feel free to prove me wrong, run DE meta with no one using zerkers, viper's, rampager's marauders or ritualist's gear (or the new stat combo that is like mauraders with ferocity being the stronger secondary stat. No healers and post the vid

Edited September 28, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Silent.6137]

2 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

90% of the composition is just boons, which is what i meant by that, commanders have and do use healers. 

 

Are you seriously arguing the presence or absence of a tank is the differentiation? When some raids don't use them at all? If there are people required to run full dps builds to succeed then i'm not not far off. 

 

Did i say DE was raid level difficulty or that i could bring people straight into a raid? You're the one that took it there.

 

Feel free to prove me wrong, run DE meta with no one using zerkers, viper's, rampager's marauders or ritualist's gear (or the new stat combo that is like mauraders with ferocity being the stronger secondary stat. No healers and post the vid

None of what you said addressed what I said or is even remotely relevant. "Calling it full raid comps is totally misleading." There is no full raid comps when comms organize subgroups. There is no full boons = raid comp when comms organize subgroups.

[Sobx.1758]

28 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

90% of the composition is just boons, which is what i meant by that, commanders have and do use healers. 

 

Are you seriously arguing the presence or absence of a tank is the differentiation? When some raids don't use them at all? And each of those 5 man sub groups you reference is trying to match the boon output of a raid? If there are people required to run full dps builds to succeed then i'm not not far off. 

 

Did i say DE was raid level difficulty or that i could bring people straight into a raid? You're the one that took it there.

 

Feel free to prove me wrong, run DE meta with no one using zerkers, viper's, rampager's marauders or ritualist's gear (or the new stat combo that is like mauraders with ferocity being the stronger secondary stat. No healers and post the vid

Boons in a group =/= raid squad/composition. It's also not 90%, but maybe 40% for DE. And it's also not a strict composition every successful DE squad has. It makes boon distribution clearer though. Still not magically turning into a "raid comp".

 

47 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I mean snebzor himself is saying people running suboptimal builds are toxic.  So either it's the way to play or it's not. 

I don't know who that is or why they are even randomly brought up here, but can't agree with that statement. That content isn't balanced around optimal/meta.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

38 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

None of what you said addressed what I said or is even remotely relevant. "Calling it full raid comps is totally misleading." There is no full raid comps when comms organize subgroups. There is no full boons = raid comp when comms organize subgroups.

Really? Because most of my effort when organizing a raid is getting the different boon roles. Dps tend to be a dime a dozen. I'm fine with you disagreeing with me, but i don't feel like it's much easier. In fact it's more annoying because you have to organize 10 different sub groups as opposed to just 2.