Suggestion: give us practice checkpoints for ht cm

[Shikaru.7618]

I want to start off by saying htcm is a very fun and challenging fight. I've enjoyed learning the choreography required to complete it. What I have an issue with is the amount of time it takes to get back to where we were just to practice the thing we need to practice. As you get to soowon, it takes upwards of 10 minutes just to try a slight tactic change. If someone makes a mistake getting there in the earlier phases, it's a reset as well.

 

My ask is that there be a practice mode for CM with no rewards that let's you skip to the dragon phases you've seen to be able to cut down the amount of iteration time. NM is not a sufficient practice mode because there are mechanics that simply don't exist.

[Day Trooper.3605]

I would love this as well, and I actually suggested this exact same option when KO CM came out - as that was getting annoying to prog as groups early on would basically immediately wipe when finally getting to the Sniper/Mech phase.  And HT CM takes this issue to a whooole 'nother level.

[chronometria.3708]

Isnt it being so unforgiving the whole point of the thing? 

[Shikaru.7618]

42 minutes ago, chronometria.3708 said:

Isnt it being so unforgiving the whole point of the thing? 

I dont mind it being unforgiving. Giving us practice checkpoints doesn't lower the execution level of the encounter, just the time it takes to practice. My suggestion is to let us practice the thing we need to practice so less time is wasted on parts we already mastered. To be clear, as long practice mode is on, you get no rewards. If you want achievements and rewards you still need to one shot the whole encounter from the start.

[Krzysztof.5973]

2 hours ago, Shikaru.7618 said:

I dont mind it being unforgiving. Giving us practice checkpoints doesn't lower the execution level of the encounter, just the time it takes to practice. My suggestion is to let us practice the thing we need to practice so less time is wasted on parts we already mastered. To be clear, as long practice mode is on, you get no rewards. If you want achievements and rewards you still need to one shot the whole encounter from the start.

That's literally the core difficulty of this CM. It takes weeks to practice phasing and transitioning. In some cases it might save hundreds of hours if only you could start from Soowon phase. The challenge is gone if you can just skip first 5min of the fight.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

On 9/29/2022 at 12:40 PM, Krzysztof.5973 said:

That's literally the core difficulty of this CM. It takes weeks to practice phasing and transitioning. In some cases it might save hundreds of hours if only you could start from Soowon phase. The challenge is gone if you can just skip first 5min of the fight.

Repetitive grinding in the name of "progression" isn't a challenge. Progression is about learning, overcoming, not banging your head against a wall until it eventually moves. If anything, the design of the HT CM is currently an anti-challenge, that favors stuff like muscle memory over adaptability and instinct.

 

There's a reason why raids have checkpoints, because it encourages actually learning and undertsanding the mechanics instead of just memorising them and reacting automatically. They're two very different things, as anyone who has been through school can attest: You recall almost nothing from it in adulthood, despite spending decades learning, because it only tests your ability to memorise things, not understand them, and on top of that memory is just temporary and fades away with time unlike experience.

 

A player who relies purely on muscle memory can clear content through what is basically "brute force", but they can't effectively teach others how to do it because they didn't actually learn it.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Cyninja.2954]

3 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Repetitive grinding in the name of "progression" isn't a challenge. Progression is about learning, overcoming, not banging your head against a wall until it eventually moves. If anything, the design of the HT CM is currently an anti-challenge, that favors stuff like muscle memory over adaptability and instinct.

That is a huge oversimplification. The actual mechanics to deal with in HT CM are in fact not that difficult. The main time hog is the necessity to advance the fight until the spot where one must progress.

Muscle memory alone does you no good here, you actually have to solve (or use other players solutions and make those work for your group) each step individually.

Sure, the argument could be made that the fight is to long. As it stands though right now, the reason why the fight is as challenging as it is, is specifically because it challenges players in many different areas:

- sticking with it

- keeping the team together during this entire time

- learning individual mechanics

- learning and adapting to actual bugs in the fight (transitioning properly between phases is one of THE most important things to adapt to)

- solving the different problems put forth (even if using other players guides and tactics because seeing something and doing it are 2 different pair of shoes)

It's not "only" muscle memory. That's probably the easiest part in all of this fight.

3 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

There's a reason why raids have checkpoints, because it encourages actually learning and undertsanding the mechanics instead of just memorising them and reacting automatically. They're two very different things, as anyone who has been through school can attest: You recall almost nothing from it in adulthood, despite spending decades learning, because it only tests your ability to memorise things, not understand them, and on top of that memory is just temporary and fades away with time unlike experience.

There is not a single raid fight where checkpoints let you get into the fight further down (nor strikes). Bosses reset to 100% life every single time. The main difference here is that the fights overall take far less time in raids or most strikes and there is far less punishing mechanics to deal with.

This segment on check points is plain incorrect.

3 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

 

A player who relies purely on muscle memory can clear content through what is basically "brute force", but they can't effectively teach others how to do it because they didn't actually learn it.

What luck then that this fight is not "only" muscle memory.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Cyninja.2954