If scrapper is meant to be a support.

[Stalima.5490]

Then why does it have no tailoring to conditions and thus pistol/shield which of course is the engineers prime support setup while also not having a support focused main weapon in the hammer?

 

I ask because the game claims that scrapper is a support focused engineer when you mouseover on scrapper.

[Ghos.1326]

Yep, either the folks at Anet changed the wiki description or someone else changed it.

Anet can't make up their minds when it comes to the path they want Scrapper to take.

[Asum.4960]

Because being a Quickness Provider is a core support role, and the spec is fitted with AoE Perma Superspeed, a Group Resurrection  tool with Function Gyro, Group Stealth via Sneak Gyro, AoE Healing and Protection with Medic Gyro, AoE cleanses with Purge Gyro, Group Damage Absorption, Projectile Negation and Stability with Bulwark Gyro, Reflects and a metric ton of CC - which tbf, last time I checked are forms of support.

[Kuma.1503]

Scrapper has good support tools, but unlike Firebrand, Tempest, Scourge, Specter, ect. where their support tools are valuable everywhere, Support Scrapper only shines in WvW blobs. One niche of one game mode. 

It cannot compete with heal firebrand in PvE, and support scrapper is just too much work for too little reward in PvP. Especially after collateral nerfs it got to tone down Holosmith. And doubly so after it loses quickness. 

In practice, it's a dps spec with some quickness and superspeed on the side, making it less of a "support" and more of a "utility DPS".

Edited October 1, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

19 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

Then why does it have no tailoring to conditions and thus pistol/shield which of course is the engineers prime support setup while also not having a support focused main weapon in the hammer?

 

I ask because the game claims that scrapper is a support focused engineer when you mouseover on scrapper.

They have the only pure support weapon in the game, Medkit. Your question seems more like "Why is Scrapper not Machinist?" when it brings completely different things to the table.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Noah Salazar.5430]

6 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Scrapper has good support tools, but unlike Firebrand, Tempest, Scourge, Specter, ect. where their support tools are valuable everywhere, Support Scrapper only shines in WvW blobs. One niche of one game mode. 

I disagree, as qheal scrapper main, i play qheal scrap from raids to strike to t4 fractals to cm drms

My tools are as much valuable like other supports

Superspeed is op tool in wing 1 for replacment to mesmer portal, also for runing part later, for spread mechanics and other stuff ppl are not aware off, same on fractal to stealth and run tough mobs

3 stab+projectile block

projectile reflect on shield

aoe stun break on bypass coating

range ress for 3ppl with short cd

good ammount of quickness allowing you to deley some skills

25 might, fury etc

aoe -35% dmg reduction for 4s

good cc with buffed blast gyro (3s stun)

And tons of condi cleanse wher on wing 2 is rly good

 

And vs mobs :

Aoe pulsing blind (Flash shell)

Aoe 8s weakness (Posion shell gass)+blast finisher

 

https://killproof.me/proof/GRNv

 

i wuld say ppl not plays qheal scrapper cuz it's hard to enter

you can't heal yourself with 1,2 spam so you need learn to position better or camp your aoe heals

aslo you need press many kays fast

 

like with 25might rotation : 

Infusion bomb -> blast gyro (limited time combo field fire) -> Magnetic shield -> Acid bomb -> Weapon swap to cancel backward jump-> rest elixir skills that give 2 aoe stab

 

ppl play ham insted, cuz you have less kays to press, and mech do might for you and team "pasive" so you can focus on your 1111 mace or med kit  1111

Edited October 1, 2022 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Ghos.1326]

yo, guys I gotta share this.

"Scrappers are support-oriented engineers with access to gyros and a plethora of other cleansing abilities"

PLETHORA.... lel this is funny, very comical.

By the way, this came from the wiki. we're doomed.

[shion.2084]

10 minutes ago, Ghos.1326 said:

yo, guys I gotta share this.

"Scrappers are support-oriented engineers with access to gyros and a plethora of other cleansing abilities"

PLETHORA.... lel this is funny, very comical.

By the way, this came from the wiki. we're doomed.

Well once tool trait changes come in you'll get one on every tool belt skill (6 seconds for rifle turret TB), you'll get them on medkit, And you'll get it on Elix Gun..... plus gyro.  So if you wanted too, you could have a lot.   Hope you brought stun break though...

[Ghos.1326]

19 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

Well once tool trait changes come in you'll get one on every tool belt skill (6 seconds for rifle turret TB), you'll get them on medkit, And you'll get it on Elix Gun..... plus gyro.  So if you wanted too, you could have a lot.   Hope you brought stun break though...

Facts my friend.

However, Scrapper itself only has purge gyro for condition removal, and Adaptive Armor for condition mitigation, so it itself doesn't have too much in terms of condition removal.

[shion.2084]

1 hour ago, Ghos.1326 said:

Facts my friend.

However, Scrapper itself only has purge gyro for condition removal, and Adaptive Armor for condition mitigation, so it itself doesn't have too much in terms of condition removal.

I'm not following.... a scrapper can use E gun, can use mortar (with light field), and can use turret or medkit currently... right?

with Elix B, you will get resolution for mitigation (along with if you take adaptive armour... which I never do in PvP cause I play a DPS yolo build).

[Zaret.1450]

On 9/30/2022 at 7:54 PM, Stalima.5490 said:

Then why does it have no tailoring to conditions and thus pistol/shield which of course is the engineers prime support setup while also not having a support focused main weapon in the hammer?

 

I ask because the game claims that scrapper is a support focused engineer when you mouseover on scrapper.

you understand that shield is a cc weapon and you can use medic kit so youbhave a healing weapon too, not to talk about how overpowered giros were, it was nerfed, it needed to be nerfed, and it will still be a decent suport, just it wont be completely broken as it was before

[shion.2084]

I think maybe his point was that since scrapers specifically are supposed to be support with tons of condition clear, what differentiates them from other Engi non-scrapper options in terms of their condi clear.   The answer is one purge gyro.  Maybe that's what he's getting at.  

[Jski.6180]

Scraper is an utility class med kit simply makes all eng support.

[Ghos.1326]

2 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

I'm not following.... a scrapper can use E gun, can use mortar (with light field), and can use turret or medkit currently... right?

with Elix B, you will get resolution for mitigation (along with if you take adaptive armour... which I never do in PvP cause I play a DPS yolo build).

The trait line scrapper itself along with its utilities and heal skill are not condition damage clears galore, if that makes more sense.

The many condition mitigation tools you get are from other sources within the core kit, like elix c, healing turret, the inventions trait line, medkit, etc. it's argued, however, these all of those clearing options are on higher cooldowns and do not clear as many conditions in one go, save elixir c, but that has a higher cd still.

The only clearing things directly in the Scrapper arsenal is purge gyro, and the only mitigation in the trait line is adaptive armor.

[Ghos.1326]

1 hour ago, shion.2084 said:

I think maybe his point was that since scrapers specifically are supposed to be support with tons of condition clear, what differentiates them from other Engi non-scrapper options in terms of their condi clear.   The answer is one purge gyro.  Maybe that's what he's getting at.  

Yes sir, that would be right.

[Stalima.5490]

5 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

I think maybe his point was that since scrapers specifically are supposed to be support with tons of condition clear, what differentiates them from other Engi non-scrapper options in terms of their condi clear.   The answer is one purge gyro.  Maybe that's what he's getting at.  

This is part of it, and this is not just the wiki btw, when you specifically mouse over on the scrapper elite in game, it will tell you that it is specifically a support specialist, and the big issue here is that with this description, it should not be a specialisation that can technically be adapted to be a support by using tons of non-scrapper traits and skills, if the elite is a support focused elite specialisation then the majority of its traits should be support focused while the weapon associated with scrapper should be focused on supporting allies, yet the hammer has effectively zero allied support skills and scrapper has like 2 major and 1 minor support traits.

 

To put this into context the mechanist is a support focused engineer as it can equip a mace and shield which gives it a full bar of support focused capabilities from stuns, heals, barriers and protection etc.  as well as having an entire row dedicated to support function as well as one of its mandatory traits literally being 20% more healing from regeneration, the scrapper capabilites are not even close to this level of focus making it a completely nonesense description of what the scrapper does, it would more accurately be described as a tanky dps with offensive support capabilities.

 

yes, the scrapper can provide alot of combo fields but I really don't think that warrants it being called support focused, after all assuming we had the tank role properly in gw2, the scrapper would be very easily considered a tank or tanky dps considering its ability to stun, block damage and shrug off stuns etc. and control areas in its native tool set.

 

anyway, this description seems to be the developers taking a non-standard approach of the scrapper and then for some reason trying to focus the scrapper around that rather than what it is clearly designed for: demolition... of its enemies.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Stalima.5490