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Grieving over out of date ascended gear.


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So I have a set of light grieving armor. All ascended. At first I made this stuff cause I, like many of you, thought grieving would be the BEST stats. Then later I looked at the maths and found that "grieving sucks outside of a tiny set of situations that basically no class is capable of meeting." 

 

I say all that because I just LIKE it. It's not good. Definitely. To be sure. 

 

What I want to ask the community is this: 

 

Can you create a viable* build for a light armor class using grieving? 

 

(*Viable is defined in this context as  'middle of the pack dps or better, that won't make people ask about my build.') 

 

Meta disclosure: I'm not asking for a meta build, I'm not claiming that hybrid builds can be meta. I don't care if another build is better. All I want is to use the same armor I have, without having to restat/ reskin it. 

 

So far I've been toying with: grieving virtuoso, and grieving reaper.  And I used to use the snowcrows now archived hybrid weaver. 

 

Help buildcrafters! Your my only hope!

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What are you using this build for? Open world? If so, go nuts, it's fine in open world, no matter what you use the gear with.

Otherwise, in instanced hard content like raids and strike CMs, you will NEED a meta build, they're meta for a reason, and everyone WILL ask you about your build if you don't bring a meta one - it shows.

 

And it's not just about stats, certain skills are used for certain things, you can't just slap anything and be "viable" in raids.

You can in easy strikes, i've had tons of "all welcome" success stories without any wipes or /gg.

 

So either leave it as it is, no need really for buildcrafting, and use it in open world, story and stuff cause it will be viable there no problem, or switch to a meta build. There's no inbetween really...

You have ascended, use the stat swapping recipe in the Mystic forge. It's not that expensive.

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Grieving is a perfectly fine set on classes that can reach 100% on a single condition through the use of runes and food. Viper only exceeds it where significant Expertise is needed.

 

For example, Firebrand (condi without Quickness) is fine on Grieving due to Balthazar runes, but Quickbrand needs Firebrand runes or similar and thus has to take Viper gear instead.

 

Many pure DPS builds (i.e they don't provide a boon) are capable of running Grieving.

 

Harbinger build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSyAo2ZlVw4YgMWGJWqX5xfA-zRRYNBFwGdc+lRXpQuVg3TjMuBAA-e

Edited by Mariyuuna.6508
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Why not change the stats to something you find more desirable?  Toss the ascended armor piece into the mystic forge along with 5 globs of ectoplasm, an Anthology of Heroes (available from Miyani for 10 spirit shards) and an exotic insignia with the desired stats.

You'll have to do this for each armor piece and will lose any runes and/or infusions on the armor unless removed.

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I'd like to point out to the few folks saying I can stat swap.... Um.... No. 

 

The point of my OP was to solve this problem WITHOUT stat swapping. 

 

As for those saying 'everything is fine in open world'. Yeah, true. Trying to PUG raid and PUG strike with it. 

 

 

As for meta in raids and strikes... That could be a topic all its own.

But the short version is this: 'meta builds are designed by Snowcrows types for speedruns.' having a non-meta but close build will not be noticed assuming you have enough skill to play without dying alot anyways. 

 

Long story short. If the meta build can put out 34k dps on the golem from the no-life post-my-achievments-on-youtube guys.... Then when real people play it they'll hit 30k. And when people who are learning it will put out 25k. So if a build puts out 25k at max well played (most grieving builds) nobody will notice that you aren't meta. They just think you aren't very good. 

 

So....... Back to my original question?

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26 minutes ago, BrokenGlass.9356 said:

I'd like to point out to the few folks saying I can stat swap.... Um.... No. 

 

The point of my OP was to solve this problem WITHOUT stat swapping. 

 

As for those saying 'everything is fine in open world'. Yeah, true. Trying to PUG raid and PUG strike with it. 

 

 

As for meta in raids and strikes... That could be a topic all its own.

But the short version is this: 'meta builds are designed by Snowcrows types for speedruns.' having a non-meta but close build will not be noticed assuming you have enough skill to play without dying alot anyways. 

 

Long story short. If the meta build can put out 34k dps on the golem from the no-life post-my-achievments-on-youtube guys.... Then when real people play it they'll hit 30k. And when people who are learning it will put out 25k. So if a build puts out 25k at max well played (most grieving builds) nobody will notice that you aren't meta. They just think you aren't very good. 

 

So....... Back to my original question?

I've raided with Griever Weaver before.  It's hard, but not impossible.  Build here.  Once it gets going, it will have 100% burn duration, 90% crit chance, and decent power + ferocity.  

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1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I've raided with Griever Weaver before.  It's hard, but not impossible.  Build here.  Once it gets going, it will have 100% burn duration, 90% crit chance, and decent power + ferocity.  

@BrokenGlass.9356 To add to this, this seems to be mostly an older build from snowcrows (which ran 3 viper's gear pieces, you can probably easly ignore those), here's more detailed look: https://snowcrows.com/builds/elementalist/weaver/hybrid-weaver

 

You might also try running condi virtuoso with griever items and check your numbers on a golem: https://snowcrows.com/builds/mesmer/virtuoso/condition-virtuoso

Edited by Sobx.1758
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14 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

@BrokenGlass.9356 To add to this, this seems to be mostly an older build from snowcrows (which ran 3 viper's gear pieces, you can probably easly ignore those), here's more detailed look: https://snowcrows.com/builds/elementalist/weaver/hybrid-weaver

 

You might also try running condi virtuoso with griever items and check your numbers on a golem: https://snowcrows.com/builds/mesmer/virtuoso/condition-virtuoso

 This is a long the lines I'm thinking. However, the weaver is out, mostly because I just reconfigured that char for all vipers. In fact this gear was my griever weaver.  Totally interested by the idea of a grieving harbinger build tho..... Gonna do some serious math on that one. 

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2 hours ago, BrokenGlass.9356 said:

Trying to PUG raid and PUG strike with it. 

 

You can PUG normal strikes with anything, just be sure about your role, and don't join LI or meta squads, join "all welcome" squads.

 

As for the raids, we already told you -  get a META build... Meaning stat swapping.

 

You can try using Blood Red's build or grieving harbinger, but you better be kitten good on it cause people will know if you're not playing a meta build and your PUG experience will be horrible. Also, pugging raids? I mean, ok.... 

 

Anway, the point is, if you want to raid, just stat swap at first, and once your raiding gets going, you'll have tons of basically free ascended sets on offer. 

 

But if you're set on grieving, try it, but don't expect everyone to be welcome to it. There are certain groups that will kick you if you don't have a meta build, no matter how good or viable your set might be, they won't even give it a chance.

 

So don't say we didn't warn you and come later complaining how you got kicked. 

Some people just don't have the patience to give you a shot.

They'd just rather have something that's proven. And unless you stat swap, you won't be bringing that into PUGs...

Edited by Veprovina.4876
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21 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

You can PUG normal strikes with anything, just be sure about your role, and don't join LI or meta squads, join "all welcome" squads.

 

As for the raids, we already told you -  get a META build..

The idea about people needing meta builds to raid is false.

 

21 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

But if you're set on grieving, try it, but don't expect everyone to be welcome to it. There are certain groups that will kick you if you don't have a meta build, no matter how good or viable your set might be, they won't even give it a chance.

 

So don't say we didn't warn you and come later complaining how you got kicked. 

Some people just don't have the patience to give you a shot.

They'd just rather have something that's proven. And unless you stat swap, you won't be bringing that into PUGs...

I've also never had anyone check my build/gear. If he'll be performing well enough (which is still way below meta), he'll be perfectly fine.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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15 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

You can PUG normal strikes with anything, just be sure about your role, and don't join LI or meta squads, join "all welcome" squads.

 

As for the raids, we already told you -  get a META build... Meaning stat swapping.

 

You can try using Blood Red's build or grieving harbinger, but you better be kitten good on it cause people will know if you're not playing a meta build and your PUG experience will be horrible. Also, pugging raids? I mean, ok.... 

 

Anway, the point is, if you want to raid, just stat swap at first, and once your raiding gets going, you'll have tons of basically free ascended sets on offer. 

 

But if you're set on grieving, try it, but don't expect everyone to be welcome to it. There are certain groups that will kick you if you don't have a meta build, no matter how good or viable your set might be, they won't even give it a chance.

 

So don't say we didn't warn you and come later complaining how you got kicked. 

Some people just don't have the patience to give you a shot.

They'd just rather have something that's proven. And unless you stat swap, you won't be bringing that into PUGs...

Oh gawd. So let me address this perspective. 

 

”Only bring meta builds to raids.” no, not necessary. You need 10 players who are good at the game. Will your raid take forever if everyone has Dire gear on? kitten yeah it will. Is it impossible? No. (Outside of some enrage timers.) 

 

"If your raiding, just stat swap at first" no, I'm well past 'at first' been playing 10 years and have 15 characters all ascended with multiple sets. 

 

"If you're set on grieving." I'm looking for a way to not have this gear be WASTED why would I re-stat it into something else I ALREADY HAVE? 

 

"So don't say we didn't warn you and come later complaining how you got kicked. 

 

Some people just don't have the patience to give you a shot.

 

They'd just rather have something that's proven. And unless you stat swap, you won't be bringing that into PUGs..."

 

If you have ARC DPS installed you know that MANY players in PUG raids and strikes are using meta builds and playing them poorly.  I'm talking about a poor build played perfectly. 

 

"Also, pugging raids? I mean, ok.... " I just don't care that you are skeptical of what I'm doing.  

 

 

 

 

 

I have a million builds that hit 24k self buffed on the golem, and I can bring those builds into PUG raids, and never have an issue. (None are "META") 

 

Why? 

 

Cause most people suck. Leading to the misguided belief that a perfect snowcrows build is needed for everything. But not if you don't suck.

 

Can I bring Snowcrows builds verbatim and hit 34k? Yes. 

 

Don't care, wasn't what I'm looking for.  I'm looking for a grieving light armor build that's "good enough". Or, something like 24k on the golem.

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11 minutes ago, BrokenGlass.9356 said:

Oh gawd. So let me address this perspective. 

 

”Only bring meta builds to raids.” no, not necessary. You need 10 players who are good at the game. Will your raid take forever if everyone has Dire gear on? kitten yeah it will. Is it impossible? No. (Outside of some enrage timers.) 

 

"If your raiding, just stat swap at first" no, I'm well past 'at first' been playing 10 years and have 15 characters all ascended with multiple sets. 

 

"If you're set on grieving." I'm looking for a way to not have this gear be WASTED why would I re-stat it into something else I ALREADY HAVE? 

 

"So don't say we didn't warn you and come later complaining how you got kicked. 

 

Some people just don't have the patience to give you a shot.

 

They'd just rather have something that's proven. And unless you stat swap, you won't be bringing that into PUGs..."

 

If you have ARC DPS installed you know that MANY players in PUG raids and strikes are using meta builds and playing them poorly.  I'm talking about a poor build played perfectly. 

 

"Also, pugging raids? I mean, ok.... " I just don't care that you are skeptical of what I'm doing.  

 

 

 

 

 

I have a million builds that hit 24k self buffed on the golem, and I can bring those builds into PUG raids, and never have an issue. (None are "META") 

 

Why? 

 

Cause most people suck. Leading to the misguided belief that a perfect snowcrows build is needed for everything. But not if you don't suck.

 

Can I bring Snowcrows builds verbatim and hit 34k? Yes. 

 

Don't care, wasn't what I'm looking for.  I'm looking for a grieving light armor build that's "good enough". Or, something like 24k on the golem.

Oh it's not going to be that far off.  Back when Griever was released, someone on snowcrows tested it and found that, for condition focused builds (Firebrand in particular), the difference was very small.  2% to 3% at most.  For example, I just made a harbinger build using Griever armor here.  If you compare it to the meta build on Snowcrows, you'll see the following differences:

7.8% lower condition duration for non-torment conditions.

90 lower condition damage

13.8% greater critical damage.

Granted it is less than what the pure viper would do.  However, that 13.8% critical damage isn't completely useless.  It does help to compensate for the losses somewhat.   So really, all of this arguing about performance is within a 5% margin of what the meta builds do, maybe 10% at most.  If you're competent at the game, your teammates will never notice the difference.  

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6 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

What are you using this build for? Open world? If so, go nuts, it's fine in open world, no matter what you use the gear with.

Otherwise, in instanced hard content like raids and strike CMs, you will NEED a meta build, they're meta for a reason, and everyone WILL ask you about your build if you don't bring a meta one - it shows.

 

You really don't. The DPS checks required are well below what optimal builds will output. Even the most intensive DPS checks really aren't that extreme that you need to play one.

 

Unless you're actually going in with something like full soldier gear, skipping the most offensive trait lines or trying to RP a water mage, if you're good at mitigating downtime, you can pull your weight with plenty of non-meta builds. You only /need/ to play one if your goal is to carry people who are constantly getting downed, doing nothing but auto-attacking, stopping to think about each button before they press it, etc.

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As far as I remember, the acceptable DPS threshold was ~ 12-14k. If you manage to maintain this, there should not be any issues. Even if you only manage to reach 10k, most groups will not kick you if you manage to survive. 

A build that should be capable of doing this is a Condition Scourge, thanks to its long baseline condition durations. I would go with a few minor modifications. Replacing the Nightmare Rune for a Torment Rune, as this is going to be one of your major damage sources. I would replace the obligatory Sigil of Bursting with a Sigil of Smoldering. That way you can utilize Demonic Lore trait which applies burning for every stack of torment.

The result would look like >this<. Rotation is standard Condition Scourge:
- Sand Shade > Blood is Power > Sand Shade > Blood is Power > Shroud ... etc.
- mash buttons off cooldown until target is dead 
Scourge is not difficult to learn. If you have any issues with staying alive, you can replace Lingering Curse with Parasitic Contagion (Curses). 

Note: The adjustments are a recommendation. If you keep the original build it will still work. Condition Scourge is one of the few rare cases, where the build works with almost everything. 

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