Jump to content
  • Sign Up

PvP. Mesmer's offhand weapons should be reworked


Vaeo.4097

Recommended Posts

I will talk from Mirage point of view here. Though all of this could be applied to core mesmer too.

I play PvP a lot and feel very limited in my play style. The only good offhand weapon for Mirage is torch.And if I take torch I forced to fulfill stealthy thief-like play style. That's the problem!

What offhand weapons Mirage has today?

TorchExcelent phantasm: deals 3K damage per attack (with Wizard amulet) to 3 targets, applies fury to allies.Excelent utility skill ("The prestige"): blind, burn, condi cleanse, stealth (by the way this condi cleanse is really significant in pvp).

SwordPhantasm is rather bad. 3.5K damage per attack (on crit, with Marauder amulet and Scholar rune). And... that's all. No other utility.Well, if you cast this phantasm standing 130 range to enemy you'll get might... But this "feature" is so useless (by the way, in PvE too) that don't even worth mentioning.Utility skill ("Counter Blade" -- "Illusionaty Riposte") is good. Really good.The problem with offhand sword is: it's useless in real builds. Power builds prefer torch to burst enemy from stealth. "Counter Blade" could be used for condi builds as defensive skill, but sword's phantasm is weak in condi build (low direct damage and no bleed stacking from Dueling).

PistolExcelent phantasm: high single target damage with both condi (with bleeding stacking from Dueling) and power builds.Bad utility skill ("Magic Bullet"). 2 sec stun looks nice at first glance, but Mirage doesn't need it at all. And even for core mesmer it doesn't have value. By the way, in PvE this skill is useless too.

FocusI skip this one because it's clearly designed for PvE. And it's really good for PvE.

What I want is to see is total rework of sword's phantasm or replacement of Magic Bullet with more useful skill (offensive or utility skill).I'd like to have several viable builds with different play style.At the moment I feel that reworking pistol or sword offhand should be enough to provide diversity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The OH weapons are actually in a pretty good shape.

You can't complain about phantasms, as they are only slightly better shatter fodder most of the time.Mirage even more prefers clones for IH and Axe 3.

And if I take torch I forced to fulfill stealthy thief-like play style. That's the problem!What else do you want Mirage to be?Mirage is a good duelist and a very good roamer. There are way better specs when it comes to group fights or holding points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree on the sword 5 phantasm ; u should always get might, and the actual attack the mesmer performs should be reworked in some ways. Phantasm attack itself has ok damage but's very boring overall.It feels more like trying to smash a piniata while beeing drunk.

The block on sword 4 on the other Hand is pure Love. I just discoverd that scepter 2 and sword 4 blocks deal damage when blocking. Killed an enemy Thief today with a 5,5k sword 4 block - hilarious - Hybrid Mirage.

Pistol is weired for me ; should get some form of conditions to the Phantasm attack baseline. Pistol 5 could potentially stun, bleed + confuse all 4 targets ; 1 sec stun , 2 bleed , 1 confu ? - something like this.

Torch 5 ist just poor. - rework the whole skill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Syprus Soulslayer.1640 said:Pistol stun is amazing, I can't tell you how many times I used it after gap closing to stun my target and finish them off or for interrupting a heal / rez on a point.

The stun is quite good, and a rework of magic bullet doesn't have to remove the stun. But I really don't like magic bullet as it is right now, and would love to see it reworked. But right now pistol confuses the fuck out of me. Pistol 4 cripples and then summons a power phantasm, its not a condi skill at all. Duelist's discipline ends up flipping the phantasm on its head, turning it into a phantasm where the majority of the damage comes from conditions, on a power phantasm summoned by a power skill. Pistol 5 is definitely not a condi skill either, but its not really a power skill. Its more of a control skill than anything else, a control skill that randomly has confusion and blind thrown in. As a whole, the weapon and its phantasm + relevant traits are quite confused as to what pistol is supposed to be. To that end I really want duelists' discipline to be reworked to buff the power damage that you and the iDuelist put out, and then I want to see magic bullet revamped entirely. Ideally we would keep the stun on it in some fashion, but I don't like the skill as it currently is

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vaeo.4097 said:I will talk from Mirage point of view here. Though all of this could be applied to core mesmer too.

I play PvP a lot and feel very limited in my play style. The only good offhand weapon for Mirage is torch.And if I take torch I forced to fulfill stealthy thief-like play style. That's the problem!

What offhand weapons Mirage has today?

TorchExcelent phantasm: deals 3K damage per attack (with Wizard amulet) to 3 targets, applies fury to allies.Excelent utility skill ("The prestige"): blind, burn, condi cleanse, stealth (by the way this condi cleanse is really significant in pvp).

Excellent Phantasm? It's just shatter fodder, nothing else. I'd even say this is the worst Phantasm in all modes. In PvP, it's use only lies on providing fury and small damage. It's piss poor in PvE too, as it is outclassed by Pistol Phantasms and Axe clones as condi Illusion choices. The Phantasm is only carried by Prestige.Prestige is actually Torch's main selling point. Stealth, blind, damage and condi clear with no cast time at that? Awesome.

SwordPhantasm is rather bad. 3.5K damage per attack (on crit, with Marauder amulet and Scholar rune). And... that's all. No other utility.Well, if you cast this phantasm standing 130 range to enemy you'll get might... But this "feature" is so useless (by the way, in PvE too) that don't even worth mentioning.Utility skill ("Counter Blade" -- "Illusionaty Riposte") is good. Really good.The problem with offhand sword is: it's useless in real builds. Power builds prefer torch to burst enemy from stealth. "Counter Blade" could be used for condi builds as defensive skill, but sword's phantasm is weak in condi build (low direct damage and no bleed stacking from Dueling).

You have no idea how good the Phantasm is actually. Sword is Mesmer's best pick when it comes to Power DPS Phantasms. It might not be great in PvP, since at most it would probably just attack once and be shattered, however in PvE this Phantasm actually hits like a truck and add the fact that it has the fastest aspd, hits and tracks the target well and can evade attacks while attacking, making it a staple in every Chrono's set when there's no need for Focus pulls.The Counter Blade is pretty good, not the best but still okay. Provides a single block that returns pretty good damage.

PistolExcelent phantasm: high single target damage with both condi (with bleeding stacking from Dueling) and power builds.Bad utility skill ("Magic Bullet"). 2 sec stun looks nice at first glance, but Mirage doesn't need it at all. And even for core mesmer it doesn't have value. By the way, in PvE this skill is useless too.

The Duelist isn't good for Power builds in PvE. Condi it's great.Magic Bullet is a pretty good skill. 2 second stun is good especially when coupled with a fast cast time. Great in interrupt builds. In PvE it's not useless. In a clone Mirage build you will be playing mostly with Axe clones, so your off hand choice doesn't really matter. What matters however is the utility of the offhand you're bringing. Pistol brings a pretty good breakbar skill through magic bullet.

FocusI skip this one because it's clearly designed for PvE. And it's really good for PvE.Focus has it's use in WvW to pull people off walls. Otherwise it's a pretty good

What I want is to see is total rework of sword's phantasm or replacement of Magic Bullet with more useful skill (offensive or utility skill).I'd like to have several viable builds with different play style.At the moment I feel that reworking pistol or sword offhand should be enough to provide diversity.

If anything should be reworked with the off hands, Sword's Riposte should be reworked. Nothing else as every Off hand provides something a Mesmer can use in each situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

wow im supprised you think in pve pisstal is bad when it stuns it does a lot of bb damage (bb is breack bar) so its good that is why its used one of the meny way for a mes to cc i think its like 500 bbd so its nice but for other then that its mainly used for the condi and phantasim but other then that you are right

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Syprus Soulslayer.1640 said:Pistol stun is amazing, I can't tell you how many times I used it after gap closing to stun my target and finish them off or for interrupting a heal / rez on a point.

The stun is quite good, and a rework of magic bullet doesn't have to remove the stun. But I really don't like magic bullet as it is right now, and would love to see it reworked. But right now pistol confuses the kitten out of me. Pistol 4 cripples and then summons a power phantasm, its not a condi skill at all. Duelist's discipline ends up flipping the phantasm on its head, turning it into a phantasm where the majority of the damage comes from conditions, on a power phantasm summoned by a power skill. Pistol 5 is definitely not a condi skill either, but its not really a power skill. Its more of a control skill than anything else, a control skill that randomly has confusion and blind thrown in. As a whole, the weapon and its phantasm + relevant traits are quite confused as to what pistol is supposed to be. To that end I really want duelists' discipline to be reworked to buff the power damage that you and the iDuelist put out, and then I want to see magic bullet revamped entirely. Ideally we would keep the stun on it in some fashion, but I don't like the skill as it currently is

I agree, pistol definitely has an identity crisis. Being that I utilize both power and condition damage, I never really looked how a potential power weapon has condition damage traits tied to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vaeo.4097 said:SwordUtility skill ("Counter Blade" -- "Illusionaty Riposte") is good. Really good.The problem with offhand sword is: it's useless in real builds. Power builds prefer torch to burst enemy from stealth. "Counter Blade" could be used for condi builds as defensive skill, but sword's phantasm is weak in condi build (low direct damage and no bleed stacking from Dueling).

12 second c/d is to long for a single block in PvP. It needs to be shorter, or apply more pressure on the counter attack. Either by dazing, immobilizing, or ignoring block.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Daishi.6027 said:

@Vaeo.4097 said:
Sword
Utility skill ("Counter Blade" -- "Illusionaty Riposte") is good. Really good.The problem with offhand sword is: it's useless in real builds. Power builds prefer torch to burst enemy from stealth. "Counter Blade" could be used for condi builds as defensive skill, but sword's phantasm is weak in condi build (low direct damage and no bleed stacking from Dueling).

12 second c/d is to long for a single block in PvP. It needs to be shorter, or apply more pressure on the counter attack. Either by dazing, immobilizing, or ignoring block.

Problem with weapon cooldowns in GW2 in general is that they can be traited, and therefore are mostly balanced arround this fact. Sword 4 can even be traited twice since it summons a clone too, so with illusions + dueling it goes down to 7,25 seconds, which is pretty good, especially in combination with scepter, traited.

Mesmer blocks are the only blocks in the game (which i know of) which deal damage, when blocking an attack. I've KILLED people with scepter 2 + sword 4. My hardest sword 4 hit was 5,7k crit (have 1900 power, 190% crit damage, crit modifier in dueling, probably 10 stacks might)

Dealing 5,7k because u blocked something is incredibly nice, especially vs Daredevil for example, which u can't hit much due to dodges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@FaboBabo.3581 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:

@Vaeo.4097 said:
Sword
Utility skill ("Counter Blade" -- "Illusionaty Riposte") is good. Really good.The problem with offhand sword is: it's useless in real builds. Power builds prefer torch to burst enemy from stealth. "Counter Blade" could be used for condi builds as defensive skill, but sword's phantasm is weak in condi build (low direct damage and no bleed stacking from Dueling).

12 second c/d is to long for a single block in PvP. It needs to be shorter, or apply more pressure on the counter attack. Either by dazing, immobilizing, or ignoring block.

Problem with weapon cooldowns in GW2 in general is that they can be traited, and therefore are mostly balanced arround this fact. Sword 4 can even be traited twice since it summons a clone too, so with illusions + dueling it goes down to 7,25 seconds, which is pretty good, especially in combination with scepter, traited.

Mesmer blocks are the only blocks in the game (which i know of) which deal damage, when blocking an attack. I've KILLED people with scepter 2 + sword 4. My hardest sword 4 hit was 5,7k crit (have 1900 power, 190% crit damage, crit modifier in dueling, probably 10 stacks might)

Dealing 5,7k because u blocked something is incredibly nice, especially vs Daredevil for example, which u can't hit much due to dodges.

Okay but that's 2 lines for a weapon that scales with power, where one is "meh", and the other is much better taken for condi. I don't think that it's reasonable to assess balance on traits you significantly have to go out of your way for.Example: Regardless of the strength of the actual trait, if Imagined Burden was in chaos, and a skill or two from GS was balanced around it being traited, but otherwise under-performed; I don't think that is a fair way to judge the balance of the weapon, especially based on how it's used, and when investing for it would break synergy for any viable build.

If it was like illusionary counter getting traited to 4 seconds, in a line it would naturally use, I would totally agree.(Not that I'm arguing the c/d for illusionary riposte should ever be that low given on how hard it hits.)

I get that Condi builds can use both dueling and illusion, and can make better use of it, but that raises other problems regarding a-net kind of pushing us into a hybrid condi/power role that I don't want to get into right now... But really I would much prefer a flat reduction, and an amended to the traits so the weapon feels better across all specs. Since even still, in those builds that make better use of it, offhand sword is still outclassed.

I'm not saying the skill doesn't do decent damage and you can't net kills off it, I personally love using it. But it offers to little, and the followup is to easily avoided by any decent player to make up for it. Despite how much I like it, I would never use it seriously in ranked.

Another suggestion I have for the weapon, especially while keeping the cooldown, would be to drop target when the block is triggered.

(btw there are other block/counter skills in the game war and ranger come to mind.. I'm not fond of Warrior's, Ranger's is pretty neat blocking range and countering only in melee)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Daishi.6027 said:

@FaboBabo.3581 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:

@Vaeo.4097 said:
Sword
Utility skill ("Counter Blade" -- "Illusionaty Riposte") is good. Really good.The problem with offhand sword is: it's useless in real builds. Power builds prefer torch to burst enemy from stealth. "Counter Blade" could be used for condi builds as defensive skill, but sword's phantasm is weak in condi build (low direct damage and no bleed stacking from Dueling).

12 second c/d is to long for a single block in PvP. It needs to be shorter, or apply more pressure on the counter attack. Either by dazing, immobilizing, or ignoring block.

Problem with weapon cooldowns in GW2 in general is that they can be traited, and therefore are mostly balanced arround this fact. Sword 4 can even be traited twice since it summons a clone too, so with illusions + dueling it goes down to 7,25 seconds, which is pretty good, especially in combination with scepter, traited.

Mesmer blocks are the only blocks in the game (which i know of) which deal damage, when blocking an attack. I've KILLED people with scepter 2 + sword 4. My hardest sword 4 hit was 5,7k crit (have 1900 power, 190% crit damage, crit modifier in dueling, probably 10 stacks might)

Dealing 5,7k because u blocked something is incredibly nice, especially vs Daredevil for example, which u can't hit much due to dodges.

Okay but that's 2 lines for a weapon that scales with power, where one is "meh", and the other is much better taken for condi. I don't think that it's reasonable to assess balance on traits you significantly have to go out of your way for.Example: Regardless of the strength of the actual trait, if Imagined Burden was in chaos, and a skill or two from GS was balanced around it being traited, but otherwise under-performed; I don't think that is a fair way to judge the balance of the weapon, especially based on how it's used, and when investing for it would break synergy for any viable build.

If it was like illusionary counter getting traited to 4 seconds, in a line it would naturally use, I would totally agree.(Not that I'm arguing the c/d for illusionary riposte should ever be that low given on how hard it hits.)

I get that Condi builds can use both dueling and illusion, and can make better use of it, but that raises other problems regarding a-net kind of pushing us into a hybrid condi/power role that I don't want to get into right now... But really
I would much prefer a flat reduction, and an amended to the traits so the weapon feels better across all specs.
Since even still, in those builds that make better use of it, offhand sword is still outclassed.

I'm not saying the skill doesn't do decent damage and you can't net kills off it, I personally love using it. But it offers to little, and the followup is to easily avoided by any decent player to make up for it. Despite how much I like it, I would never use it seriously in ranked.

Another suggestion I have for the weapon, especially while keeping the cooldown, would be to drop target when the block is triggered.

(btw there are other block/counter skills in the game war and ranger come to mind.. I'm not fond of Warrior's, Ranger's is pretty neat blocking range and countering only in melee)

yeah today i saw some hammer skill which attacks 5 times while blocking during that duration, so it's not limited to mesmer sadly.

About the hybrid Role ; tbh i think that's the most fitting theme for mesmer right now. Mirage embraced this, but if we look at this straight ; chrono can be played hybrid too. I have a really good time playing hybrid Mirage right now axe/sword and sword/pistol - enjoying the hard power hits, and loving the sweet condi kills......When the stealthed enemy Thief/Mesmer reveals in downstate <3

About the trait-system ; yeah i really dislike that you basically have to trait some weapons if u want to use them properly. Torch without illusions for example is a no-go 30 seconds CD phantasm holy....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mesmer offhand weapons are seriously in a good state no need to touch something that isn't under performing. As for the pistol I don't see the prob with it being use able by both power and condi builds , and they just recently added a trait that increases power damage on phantasms its just that its in a different trait line (illusions). Then theres the magic bullet thing it's actually fine tbh it also suits both condi and power builds because it functions as a stun that also blinds and has confusion on it which plays off traits in domination and dueling and even chaos.

This is a wonderful time to be a Mesmer player we have multiple viable builds from base mes, chrono, and mirage difference between seeking to make things better and just being greedy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...