Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Dragonscale Defense should grant Aegis automatically instead of Protection (pvp)


Yerlock.4678

Recommended Posts

All in title. We don't need protection, and granted Stability was too strong. The three seconds of protection is negligible, we need an automatic aegis stack when going in dragon trigger on a cd of 15 sec. The duration should be the same as protection right now, only 3 seconds.

Edited by gmmg.9210
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Yerlock.4678 changed the title to Dragonscale Defense should grant Aegis automatically instead of Protection (pvp)
41 minutes ago, gmmg.9210 said:

All in title. We don't need protection, and granted Stability was too strong. The three seconds of protection is negligible, we need an automatic aegis stack when going in dragon trigger on a cd of 15 sec. The duration should be the same as protection right now, only 3 seconds.

 

I feel like the prot is actually a bit more useful than a single stack of aegis since Triggerguard handles the instances you would need that anyway. taking a little less from cleave is probably more important than blocking the next attack automatically. Could be wrong though.

 

Will the bladesworn players suddenly all explode now that stab isnt automatic on DT? find out next time on GWZ or whatever

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, gmmg.9210 said:

All in title. We don't need protection, and granted Stability was too strong. The three seconds of protection is negligible, we need an automatic aegis stack when going in dragon trigger on a cd of 15 sec. The duration should be the same as protection right now, only 3 seconds.

Honestly, I think Dragonscale D should give resistance (3s on 8s CD). Trigger guard should also provide 3 stacks of stab for 3s in addition to aegis.  Here's why:

 

1) allows some measure of blind immunity for all DS, regardless of the GM trait taken. This will, in turn, make immortal dragon and daring dragon more viable. Unyielding Dragon is still amazing because it's unblockable and a CC.

 

2) provides something of an answer to BS's susceptibility to immobilize.

 

3) provides the ability to truly protect one or 2 DS attempts via Triggerguard once in awhile so you can still get high-level charges to proc your traits, etc. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Will the bladesworn players suddenly all explode now that stab isnt automatic on DT? find out next time on GWZ or whatever

*Disrupting Stab* I for one am glad the stability is gone. The uncounterability of Dragon Trigger was carrying people hard. BS' healing was too. Give me real warriors to fight not free bursts and projectile spam.

Edited by Tycura.1982
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Honestly, I think Dragonscale D should give resistance (3s on 8s CD). Trigger guard should also provide 3 stacks of stab for 3s in addition to aegis.  Here's why:

 

1) allows some measure of blind immunity for all DS, regardless of the GM trait taken. This will, in turn, make immortal dragon and daring dragon more viable. Unyielding Dragon is still amazing because it's unblockable and a CC.

I would say that with the changes to Defense recently that this wouldn't happen, but since they added it in to Berserker I can see it happening to BSW.

I would say 3s of Res on 8s CD is good. UD would have to lose the blind immunity though. They could add the other might stack back in return, or change it so that it pulses 1 stack of stab for 1s.

I actually like the concept of the three GM traits pulsing boons in DT... Here is how I would do it:
ID: pulses Protection as it does now.
UD: Remove the might, now pulses 1 stack of stab for 1s.
DD: Pulses 2 might for 5s every second.

Moving the might to DD helps increase it's damage output, doubling the might from UD's pulses to account for DD having a shorter window for pulses to occur.

6 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

2) provides something of an answer to BS's susceptibility to immobilize.

 

3) provides the ability to truly protect one or 2 DS attempts via Triggerguard once in awhile so you can still get high-level charges to proc your traits, etc. 

 

 

I think the stab should be forced onto a trait, like a pulsing source on UD. Putting so much onto Triggerguard would be make it OP. 

The pulsing 1s of stab every second would be moderate protection against CC, but you could still get chain CC'd by one player, or focused by +2 players and CC'd anyway, but Triggerguard would still be there for the aegis if the one stack gets stripped and you see another CC inbound.

That and thieves could care less about your stab and necros will happily corrupt it for a free source of fear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bladesworn still heals alot from combat stimulant which technically prevents this class from getting any changes. Nerf combat stimulant - or better - CHANGE IT so 2nd part may not be just useless. That way we actually may see some good changes to bladesworn w/o making it just ridiculous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Aaron.1294 said:

Bladesworn still heals alot from combat stimulant which technically prevents this class from getting any changes. Nerf combat stimulant - or better - CHANGE IT so 2nd part may not be just useless. That way we actually may see some good changes to bladesworn w/o making it just ridiculous.

That has more to do with TR still reloading ammo. So long as that exists or CS remains an ammo skill there will be a problem.

The next really suitable nerf is to remove the ammo from CS, and just let it give the boons once the second pulse happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

That has more to do with TR still reloading ammo. So long as that exists or CS remains an ammo skill there will be a problem.

The next really suitable nerf is to remove the ammo from CS, and just let it give the boons once the second pulse happens.

That would absolutely destroy any viability BS has remaining.

 

I agree that having ammo heal skills can be problematic. But you would need to MASSIVELY buff/rework other parts of BS's kit if you gut its healing.

 

The current iteration of BS is still pretty strong, but not overbearing. I definitely wouldn't recommend any further nerfs unless they are accompanied by significant compensatory buffs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

That would absolutely destroy any viability BS has remaining.

 

I agree that having ammo heal skills can be problematic. But you would need to MASSIVELY buff/rework other parts of BS's kit if you gut its healing.

 

The current iteration of BS is still pretty strong, but not overbearing. I definitely wouldn't recommend any further nerfs unless they are accompanied by significant compensatory buffs. 

The heal itself is pretty decent even at 1 charge, and the spec gets plenty of barrier access while also having the option for more barrier access from Defense.

The OTHER option of course is to just radically change TR so that it doesn't recharge ammo at all. If they did that then there may be room to increase the effectiveness of Gunsaber.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Aaron.1294 @Lan Deathrider.5910 I think before we start calling for nerfs, we need to confirm that there is actually a problem. I haven't found BS to be that oppressive since 10/4, and that was BEFORE they stripped the stab from dragonscale defense.

 

it would be prudent to see how the dust settles before jumping on the nerf train again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

@Aaron.1294 @Lan Deathrider.5910 I think before we start calling for nerfs, we need to confirm that there is actually a problem. I haven't found BS to be that oppressive since 10/4, and that was BEFORE they stripped the stab from dragonscale defense.

 

it would be prudent to see how the dust settles before jumping on the nerf train again. 

CS being an ammo skill means that if the first cast is interrupted the whole thing does not go on interrupt CD and the BSW is able to use the next ammo charge  much sooner.

That in and of itself is reason enough to strip it of ammo and adjust the single use accordingly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you guys are missing the forest for the trees. A thing is rarely, if ever, toxic by itself; you have to look at the whole picture of the spec's performance to determine whether it is toxic or not. Big healing numbers aren't a problem if that's the only form of defense you have. 

 

Just.... Go play bladesworn. Go seriously play it against good competition. It is so incredibly vulnerable now that it doesn't have stab on Dragonscale. It's clunky, it's ponderous. You end up eating a ton of hits trying to close with your target. If BS didn't have large healing numbers, it would just die.

 

You want to rework BS from the ground up? Fine. But those reworks need to happen at the same time you nerf/rework CS. Otherwise you will just dumpster the spec. That's poor execution. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@CalmTheStorm.2364except it isn't as vulnerable as you say it is.... Seriously. CS is like the most toxic skill in the whole game espec with TR. Because u can simply outheal dmg while dealing ton of it too is just an unhealthy and toxic design. No matter whether or not is good or bad - it's still toxic and unfun to deal with therefore it NEEDS changes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I think you guys are missing the forest for the trees. A thing is rarely, if ever, toxic by itself; you have to look at the whole picture of the spec's performance to determine whether it is toxic or not. Big healing numbers aren't a problem if that's the only form of defense you have. 

 

Just.... Go play bladesworn. Go seriously play it against good competition. It is so incredibly vulnerable now that it doesn't have stab on Dragonscale. It's clunky, it's ponderous. You end up eating a ton of hits trying to close with your target. If BS didn't have large healing numbers, it would just die.

 

You want to rework BS from the ground up? Fine. But those reworks need to happen at the same time you nerf/rework CS. Otherwise you will just dumpster the spec. That's poor execution. 

Stab on DT is another issue. I've frequently advocated for spammable stab on warrior because I know full well that there are hard counters to stab, Lord knows I exploit the hell out of it when I roam on my Reaper.

The original 60s CD on the trait was way out of line. The stab on every DT was not the problem, bloated sustain was. DSD needs the stab, we can get prot from ID if we want it.

That and I'm against such different functionality on traits between game modes entirely.

So to me: pulsing stab in DT on Dragon Scale Defense or on UD. It is no more OP than Juggernaut. CS needs it's ammo removed and healing increased to compensate with it's boons applied on the second pulse.

From there buff Gunsaber properly. Put the evade frames that Blooming Fire has in it's UW version on the land version. Buff the AA chain damage, give Breakstep 900 range.

And for the love of Balthazar's glorious memory change the master tier traits to key off of explosions, and make FaF refresh duration when gaining a new stack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like blooming fire could be better with superspeed and burn stacks and put evade frames to break step instead. That way we have engage and disengage tool w/o making it bloated (break step needs something at the very beggining instead of just dmg. It makes 0 sense for it to have 20 sec cd and cast time at the start while only giving 5 sec of fury and 450 distance only)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Aaron.1294 said:

I feel like blooming fire could be better with superspeed and burn stacks and put evade frames to break step instead. That way we have engage and disengage tool w/o making it bloated (break step needs something at the very beggining instead of just dmg. It makes 0 sense for it to have 20 sec cd and cast time at the start while only giving 5 sec of fury and 450 distance only)

 

I can see where you are coming from, but the underwater version currently has evade frames on it, so it means that they at least played with it, but never finalized it on land. It is actually very nice underwater if you ever get a chance to use it there. Again, to me the kit should function the same on land and UW, irrespective of game mode.

Breakstep I would put a movement impairing condition removal on personally, that and 900 range on the movement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@CalmTheStorm.2364It still has to get nerfed tho. It's not healthy for the game and also not healthy for warrior overall. The problem is combat stimulant blocks bladesworn from getting any meaningfull changes.   Outhealing damage never was, is and never will be a good mechanic espec in pvp, where it is the main problem ever since the release.

i woudln't say that, mending is actually very close from being better then CS.

except tactical reload, but again using an elite skill to buff heal skill, i wouldn't say it's not a trade off, when you could've taken like rampage etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...