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Suggestion: Stop Making Jumping Puzzles Mandatory


Robe Robbing Robert.6425

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1 hour ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

If you can do the Bell Choir, you can finish the Wintersday Traditions achievement, as the Jumping Puzzle is not required.  I complete the yearly achievement every year, and I've never even set foot in the Jumping Puzzle. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wintersday_Traditions

 

So whoever beats guitar hero can also beat oddworld. Yeah right.

Edited by artharon.9276
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I dont know if it could be called a jumping puzzle, but in POF,  there was a storyline quest where you had to jump across barges to get to some batteries... it took me over half an hour to do it. I was soooooo angry... I am hopeless at jumping puzzles and I did NOT enjoy this at all.

 

I am sure others enjoyed it and was able to jump across in no time... but me, I..... grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

I hate jumping over anything, I have terrible vertigo so for me its a physical ailement that stops me doing these things. 

Being forced to do them is bad for me.

If there were a way for me to not have to go through this, it would be good.

 

Edited by Lanfear De Noir.9127
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The one thing with the Bell Choir is you don't need to complete songs to do the achievement - you only need to get notes correct.  So while it could be painful, I would imagine even a really poor player could get 10 notes or so on each song before being booted from playing more notes.  Where as the JP, it isn't about making X number of jumps, you do need completion, so if really bad at that, it may just not be possible to ever complete it.

 

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20 hours ago, Efar.8153 said:

Or make jumping puzzles accessible for everyone, not just for a very few ppl with good reflexes and immune to stress and anxiety? (since we all paid for the game).

 

Well, that has it's own drawbacks. If ArenaNet makes JP's easy so everyone can complete them, then the bar needs to be very low. This will make the JPs that now provide a challenge to skilled players totally boring for them. But there are JPs in multiple difficulties and if you go to every daily JP there are usually some mesmer players around willing to teleport you to the end or to the next checkpoint. So you can still get most of the achievements even if you're pretty bad at JP's.

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On 6/4/2023 at 5:24 AM, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

Well, that has it's own drawbacks. If ArenaNet makes JP's easy so everyone can complete them, then the bar needs to be very low. This will make the JPs that now provide a challenge to skilled players totally boring for them. But there are JPs in multiple difficulties and if you go to every daily JP there are usually some mesmer players around willing to teleport you to the end or to the next checkpoint. So you can still get most of the achievements even if you're pretty bad at JP's.

Skilled players.. omg.. it's a freaking game. Skills and struggles are for real life😐

There are LOT more "unskilled" players than "skilled" ones ^^ Are we accommodating the game to satisfy the very few?

(sry if the reply sounds aggressive - it is not my intention^^)

Edited by Efar.8153
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18 hours ago, Efar.8153 said:

[...]

And there are LOT more "unskilled" players than "skilled" ones. Are we really accommodating the game to satisfy the very few? (like in real life? - and wow - they did the same mistake)

[...]

I completely agree with you on this one. There (always) is massive potential to expand the player base towards the casual side. The non-gamers and casual gamers. This is why mobile games in general are very successful worldwide. But that does not mean that ArenaNet should not serve the current player base and the "skilled" players who like some levels of challenge in JPs. It would be bad for the game if we would lose the "skilled" player base because these are the most loyal customers.

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With the addition of adventures in HoT, it would make some sense for all jumping puzzles to just be adventures, with the goal of the adventure completing the puzzle.

This has several advantages - you can go back to the start of the puzzle if you die (some puzzles do have mechanics where that can happen).  Timers can be added so better rewards given for a gold (fast) time, but the bronze time could be very generous (basically unlimited).  And just like some of the race adventures, where it knows if you used a mount or not, JP adventures could do the same thing to effectively block the use of mounts without adding in all the no mount zones on the maps (and lots of those no mount zones are not effective at this point anyways, since additional mounts & skills were added since those were first put in so one can still bypass many JPs with mounts).  Adventures can also provide clues on where the puzzle goes, and also add gates (like the races) that one has to get through) if they want to discourage mesmer portals or teleport to a friend.  Or there could no gates if that is something Anet wants to encourage.

I doubt they will ever go back and do this, but it would seem to fix a lot of problems.  I've done most every JP in the game, and while the original ones were fun, I find a lot of the later ones too long and not interesting - I finish it once for an achievement or something and think 'I hope to never do this again'.  And having players with that type of sentiment probably isn't great for the game - it means that is really one off content, and isn't making happy players.

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On 6/4/2023 at 4:56 AM, Efar.8153 said:

Skilled players.. omg.. it's a freaking game. Skills and struggles are for real life. Don't bring corporate mentality into a game... 😐

My God. For real? Well I paid for game to give me some sort of challange and adversity to overcome. So did many others. If you want to be held by hand throu every single aspect of the game, I suggest playing some mobile farm game. 

Sure lets make every content in this game easy. Lets make group content soloable even, becouse why should you be forced to play online game in group with your anxiety. Not like there is hundrets of games that are made with the peoples like you in mind. Let's come to the game ppls enjoy and lets tell them they shouldnt enjoy it becouse they fell victim to some corporate mentality.

Dear Dwayna what is with this peoples this days. Xd

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GW2 has always had a bit of identity crisis.  Is it a game for casual players?  Originally, it was marketed a bit for that.  But then they added things (raids) which is clearly not for casual players.  The problem seems to be Anet doesn't even seem to be quite sure who their target audience is, so does a bit of everything, which will almost certainly annoy someone.

 

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On 6/3/2023 at 7:24 AM, Efar.8153 said:

Or make jumping puzzles accessible for everyone, not just for a very few ppl with good reflexes and immune to stress and anxiety? (since we all paid for the game).

 

The problem is, no matter how easy you make them, there's likely always going to be someone who finds it "!too hard", so there's really no way of making them doable for everyone, unless you completely remove every single piece of challenge and let people spawn at the end and get a huge big arrow pointing at the end chest.

Granted, the vast majority of people can handle modest challenge but not everyone.

Personally I think it's absolutely fine that there are some things that are immensly hard and only a few can complete them - as long as it doesn't hinder progress for things like dailies, festivals, story, or similar. (And in the case for this thread, it doesn't hinder progress for that...)

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On 6/3/2023 at 7:24 AM, Efar.8153 said:

Or make jumping puzzles accessible for everyone, not just for a very few ppl with good reflexes and immune to stress and anxiety? (since we all paid for the game).

 

Thats the same thing as saying i payed for mario, but dont want to do the actual platform/jumping content. In this case its not even the case. Its optional content, you dont have to play. Just like im not interested in Raids, Pvp or WvW. Unless you have a completionist mindset, but you should only do that if your up to it, else not. Im super oldschool. Started playing games in the mid 80's (C64). There was no option to continue if you died a few times, over was over, no saves for most if not all games also.. Gaming now is much easier with all the handholding now. I am not a JP (or mario) expert, but still like to do it and laugh it of and try again when failing. When things get to difficult for me, i accept that and do other things after some tries. Its not that there is not a infinite supply of many different kind of content.

Edited by particlepinata.9865
forgot some words
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8 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I can't wait for Halloween to come back to see the little girl going through the JP without issue linked to the thread where people complain it's hard.

It took me forever to figure that one out. Its the pressure from the toxic mad soup creeping up the tower. But after I did it the first time I was able to do it several more times with little difficulty. People who complain about JPs are either unwilling to learn them or have a disability that keeps them from being able to do the JPs. The latter my heart goes out to and is why we have X of Y achievements when JPs are involved, but the former...

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The argument of 'a little girl' can do a JP is probably not a great case to be made - her reflexes are probably a lot better than mine (or most people who are older).  Certain content favors certain skills.

I don't mind most JPs, or most content, but what irks me is when there is some achievement you want to go for (maybe it has a nice reward, under whatever definition you want to put that), and 95% of the things needed are relatively straightforward/simple, but that last 5% is much more difficult.  In most cases, Anet has done the case of there being extra achievements for many of these, so you can choose the least painful option for that last 5%, but in some cases, that last thing may be really difficult to do, and somewhat frustrating that you've put the effort in for that 95% completion and get there only to find out that last one is nearly impossible.

 

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The thing that gets me with clock tower is that if you do attempt to practice it, you spend half your time waiting around while other people are going up. The average wait between attempts is long enough to be aggravating while being too short to do anything else between attempts than stare at the progress bar and be annoyed.

It'd be a lot more pleasant to attempt if you could get your own instance where you can just try again immediately if you fail.

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9 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The thing that gets me with clock tower is that if you do attempt to practice it, you spend half your time waiting around while other people are going up. The average wait between attempts is long enough to be aggravating while being too short to do anything else between attempts than stare at the progress bar and be annoyed.

It'd be a lot more pleasant to attempt if you could get your own instance where you can just try again immediately if you fail.

The time you spend in the naughty box for falling into the acid is supposed to make you think about your mistakes.

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On 6/4/2023 at 5:56 AM, Efar.8153 said:

Skilled players.. omg.. it's a freaking game. Skills and struggles are for real life. Don't bring corporate mentality into a game...

Some people have fun when they overcome barriers that are interesting to them. For example, some people like to ride a unicycle, some people like to play chess. It isnot simple things. But it is not a job also. 

Edited by FiveBunnies.5730
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2 hours ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

The time you spend in the naughty box for falling into the acid is supposed to make you think about your mistakes.

Sorry, but when it comes to jumping puzzles, I learn by doing or by observing and figuring it out, not by sitting around twiddling my thumbs having my time disrespected in a box where I can't even see the puzzle. I have better things to do with my time than spending half of it staring at someone else's progress bar.

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12 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

The argument of 'a little girl' can do a JP is probably not a great case to be made - her reflexes are probably a lot better than mine (or most people who are older).  Certain content favors certain skills.

I don't mind most JPs, or most content, but what irks me is when there is some achievement you want to go for (maybe it has a nice reward, under whatever definition you want to put that), and 95% of the things needed are relatively straightforward/simple, but that last 5% is much more difficult.  In most cases, Anet has done the case of there being extra achievements for many of these, so you can choose the least painful option for that last 5%, but in some cases, that last thing may be really difficult to do, and somewhat frustrating that you've put the effort in for that 95% completion and get there only to find out that last one is nearly impossible.

 

To be fair, children at the age of the girl being referenced have undeveloped coordination and reflexes. 

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5 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Sorry, but when it comes to jumping puzzles, I learn by doing or by observing and figuring it out, not by sitting around twiddling my thumbs having my time disrespected in a box where I can't even see the puzzle. I have better things to do with my time than spending half of it staring at someone else's progress bar.

It's your progress bar as long as you don't fall into the soup.

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I hate jumping puzzles with a passion, but I don't want them to be easy. This game is vast enough and has enough content for the players.
I don't go to the super adventure game because I don't find it as fun, I don't craft because I don't enjoy it, same with PvP and WvW. 
I don't think that making content easier is right for this game. Some challenge is always welcome.

Edited by Rhinala.1739
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On 6/7/2023 at 5:36 AM, Solvar.7953 said:

The argument of 'a little girl' can do a JP is probably not a great case to be made - her reflexes are probably a lot better than mine (or most people who are older).  Certain content favors certain skills.

I don't mind most JPs, or most content, but what irks me is when there is some achievement you want to go for (maybe it has a nice reward, under whatever definition you want to put that), and 95% of the things needed are relatively straightforward/simple, but that last 5% is much more difficult.  In most cases, Anet has done the case of there being extra achievements for many of these, so you can choose the least painful option for that last 5%, but in some cases, that last thing may be really difficult to do, and somewhat frustrating that you've put the effort in for that 95% completion and get there only to find out that last one is nearly impossible.

 

Is "I could do the jumping puzzles despite a broken and weakened right arm that forced me to use a controller as a mouse" a better argument? 

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