Veprovina.4876 Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said: Generally speaking all 24 slot bags that were exotic were soulbound on use while the ascended ones were account bound on use. There aren't a ton of account bound exotics in the game, most are soulbound on use. This conversation came up already when people complained when 24 slot bags came out, and Anet explained it back then. But yeah the vast majority of 24 slot bags in this game are soulbound on use. 2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said: As Vayne pointed out, the "free" (not sure why people are debating this?) 24-slot bag being soulbound is equivalent to any 24/28 slot PoF era bag (before the Boreal ones from IBS). 24-Slot Gossamer Saddlebag - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) 24-Slot Hardened Leather Pannier - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) 24-Slot Orichalcum Locker - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) I would be ecstatic if those were made accountbound but realistically it isn't happening in the near future unless Arenanet addresses all inventory bags. So, that begs the question then, if they had the means from later IBS bags to have them be account bound, why did they choose to give us the PoF era soulbound bag? I mean, it seems they had a choice then, this IS a new bag, someone had to use either PoF era template for code or IBS template for code right? You're saying someone chose it to be soulbound? Or it could be a bug? Again, i'm not complaining, i'm just trying to understand this, it just seems weird... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesg.7128 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 14 hours ago, Tiamat.8254 said: It's free. I don't see the problem. The "problem" as I see it, is that the bag was given to the account for an account based action, not an individual character. Sure, the account holder has to decide which character to use it on, but can then never change it. If having a change of mind, then bad luck. If wanting to delete that character one day then the bag is lost. Personally, I put it on one of my main characters that needed the bag space and is never going to be deleted, but I can see why it may be a problem for some people. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said: So, that begs the question then, if they had the means from later IBS bags to have them be account bound, why did they choose to give us the PoF era soulbound bag? I mean, it seems they had a choice then, this IS a new bag, someone had to use either PoF era template for code or IBS template for code right? You're saying someone chose it to be soulbound? Or it could be a bug? Again, i'm not complaining, i'm just trying to understand this, it just seems weird... Arenanet is consistently inconsistent. Perhaps someone just copy pasted all the attributes of the older PoF bags instead of the boreal ones? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 47 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: Arenanet is consistently inconsistent. Perhaps someone just copy pasted all the attributes of the older PoF bags instead of the boreal ones? Lol, well that seems the most plausable explanation so far. 😛 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said: So, that begs the question then, if they had the means from later IBS bags to have them be account bound, why did they choose to give us the PoF era soulbound bag? I mean, it seems they had a choice then, this IS a new bag, someone had to use either PoF era template for code or IBS template for code right? You're saying someone chose it to be soulbound? Or it could be a bug? Again, i'm not complaining, i'm just trying to understand this, it just seems weird... Might be that the dev that did the new bag have no idea about the ibs bags? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said: Might be that the dev that did the new bag have no idea about the ibs bags? Also quite possible, yes. 😛 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggie.3184 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 6:43 AM, Gehenna.3625 said: What would be the impact on the economy if it was account bound? Ask them that since I'm not the one who believes it. 🤣 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archenblade.3405 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 21 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said: The bag is the payment. Logging into the account, signing up for the newsletter, etc is the labor that is being paid for. Free like beer, not like speech. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Mazama.2917 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 4:19 AM, Tiamat.8254 said: It's free. I don't see the problem. It actually is not free. You spend time signing up then unsigning up and if you are a steam user you have to directly give Anet an email that must be verified and can be used to identify you and add more data points to a profile being compiled about you by 'third-parties'. Free means no cost. In this case there certainly is a cost it just may be low. Nothing is free in monetary terms, and few things are free as in freedom. To the main topic: I think a 24 slot bag is generous as even a 20 slot bag is kinda annoying to make or buy. Put it on your main, or throw it away and pretend you never had it fact of the matter is you can make up for the difference between 18 slots and 24 slots with proactive inventory management. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) oof, just look at all those ""deep"" takes where "it's not free if you had to log in" 🤦♂️ Why not go deeper: nothing is free, you have to breath to live which in itself is an action and since you "took an action", you did something to get anything else. The word "free" doesn't exist in the idealized, purist meaning some of you are striving for here. The bag is free, even if you make 4 clicks to get it. Edited October 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758 2 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 For what it's worth my Gmail account has been signed up for the GW2 mailing list for a few years, I don't use it for anything else except Google stuff (which is the reason I got it) and it never gets any spam. So I don't think they're selling the emails on for anything else. My other address does get spam, but I've had it for 11 years and used it for all kinds of things so that's not surprising. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Mazama.2917 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: oof, just look at all those ""deep"" takes where "it's not free if you had to log in" 🤦♂️ Why not go deeper: nothing is free, you have to breath to live which in itself is an action and since you "took an action", you did something to get anything else. The word "free" doesn't exist in the idealized, purist meaning some of you are striving for here. The bag is free, even if you make 4 clicks to get it. So should we stop caring about what a word actually means and just let people decide how they individually think the word should be used? it isn't free and NCSOFT is using the emails gained from steam members to sell data to third parties. They can also use the number of people interested in the game (email subscription counts) to then ask for investment into the company or game. They are extracting much value, the question is how much value are you getting? If you want to remove nuance then yeah it's free guys so don't worry just thank Anet for it. Why didn't they just mail every active player a bag? This is like saying google services are free. They are not, you pay with data and they extract way more value from it than you get from their low-grade email service. Edited October 25, 2022 by Libera Simio.1592 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: So should we stop caring about what a word actually means and just let people decide how they individually think the word should be used? it isn't free and NCSOFT is using the emails gained from steam members to sell data to third parties. Use a spam email nobody -including you- cares about. (...and steam accounts log into their account page through steam login, don't they? So that's a complete miss anyways?) 15 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: They can also use the number of people interested in the game (email subscription counts) to then ask for investment into the company or game. They have that number through people logging into the game already though. 15 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: They are extracting much value, the question is how much value are you getting? If you want to remove nuance then yeah it's free guys so don't worry just thank Anet for it. Why didn't they just mail every active player a bag? Because they want the players to know there's a newsletter, some people want to receive the information related to the game and similar products. Because, you know, entertainment. 15 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: This is like saying google services are free. They are not, you pay with data and they extract way more value from it than you get from their low-grade email service. This has nothing to do with this thread or this bag though, so no, it is not like that. You're not delivering anything new to them by checking and unchecking a box. Edited October 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 If you hate it so much you're welcome to go craft an accountbound Boreal 24 slot bag that can actually upgrade. It's about 30g. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Special:RunQuery/Base_ingredients_query&Base_ingredients[item]=Sturdy Boreal Duffel&Base_ingredients[id]=13311&Base_ingredients[quantity]=1&_run 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Mazama.2917 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: Use a spam email nobody -including you- cares about. (...and steam accounts log into their account page through steam login, don't they? So that's a complete miss anyways?) They have that number through people logging into the game already though. Because they want the players to know there's a newsletter, some people want to receive the information related to the game and similar products. Because, you know, entertainment. I use anonaddy emails. Doesn't really change any of my points. Steam accounts login through steam but steam does not give Anet your email apparently since on a steam account you have to go to Anet's page sign into Anet's website with your steam credentials and add an email, then verify it. Plus a Steam account email is not neccesarily someone's main or active email. Number of log ins can be looked at differently than number of people actually interested enough to get a consistent newsletter. There are people that log in daily for their reward then do nothing else for weeks on end I bet. Number of people signed up to you newsletter is another metric you can use to either prove or reinforce other data points. Many business all over the world want you to join their email list because it's valuabe to them. They get more advertising money if it's a show, they get more investment opportunities if it's a business looking to expand. It's a metic they want for reasons other than keeping you well informed with spam. I think anyone that is 'into' getting newsletters probably finds them pretty easily. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: I use anonaddy emails. Doesn't really change any of my points. It does though, specifically because of what I wrote in the previous post. 21 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: Steam accounts login through steam but steam does not give Anet your email apparently since on a steam account you have to go to Anet's page sign into Anet's website with your steam credentials and add an email, then verify it. Plus a Steam account email is not neccesarily someone's main or active email. I don't know if I'm suddenly misunderstanding what you're writing or are you straight up arguing against your previously made point ("it isn't free and NCSOFT is using the emails gained from steam members")? It's like you're now confirming what I wrote in my response? 21 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: Number of log ins can be looked at differently than number of people actually interested enough to get a consistent newsletter. Now you're talking about consistent newsletter, while avoiding what I already repeatedly wrote in this thread: you're not required to keep the option on to receive the bag. You can literally turn it on and off right away and you still get rewarded without getting any newsletter. The bag doesn't tell you how many people want to get the newsletter. At best it simply informs players about the existance of the newsletter, which is also what I pointed out in the previous post. If the players want to receive the newsletter, they can do it regardless of anything. If they don't want to, there's still no issue with that and they still get a free bag. 21 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: There are people that log in daily for their reward then do nothing else for weeks on end I bet. Number of people signed up to you newsletter is another metric you can use to either prove or reinforce other data points. Active players >>>> players that signed up to the newsletter with their spam email and stopped showing up at all. So I disagree with what you claim has an actual value here. I still have my spam email from 20 years ago and I sure am not interested in anything that I signed up for at that time. Duh, for the most part I don't even know what it is. Such a valuable and reliable data. Edited October 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Mazama.2917 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 12 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: It does though, specifically because of what I wrote in the previous post. I don't know if I'm suddenly misunderstanding what you're writing or are you straight up arguing against your previously made point ("it isn't free and NCSOFT is using the emails gained from steam members")? It's like you're now confirming what I wrote in my response? Now you're talking about consistent newsletter, while avoiding what I already repeatedly wrote in this thread: you're not required to keep the option on to receive the bag. You can literally turn it on and off right away and you still get rewarded without getting any newsletter. The bag doesn't tell you how many people want to get the newsletter. At best it simply informas players about the existance of the newsletter, which is also what I pointed out in the previous post. If the players want to receive the newsletter, they can do it regardless of anything. If they don't want to, there's still no issue with that and they still get a free bag. Active players >>>> players that signed up to the newsletter with their spam email and stopped showing up at all. So I disagree with what you claim has an actual value here. I still have my spam email from 20 years ago and I sure am not interested in anything that I signed up for at that time. Duh, for the most part I don't even know what it is. Such a valuable and reliable data. This entire time I have been saying the same thing. Anet gains value from the newsletter otherwise they would have just given everyone a bag. It is not free because it's costs you time and gives the provider value. Rather or not it is a good data set is a discussion we could have and we probably agree on. This doesn't change the fact that many business extract value from that number being higher hence the reason they exist in the first place. They can also claim a metric of 'X people signed up for our newsletter in a few days! Interest is at an all time high! Invest please!' WIthout disclosing how many people signed up and then unchecked it right after, someone would have to ask that direct question and many people don't. If you are trying to say companies gain no value from this I can find you some sources if outside links are even allowed here. With the steam situation they can get more personal information on the steam gamer than what steam my share with them normally by doing this. Fact of the matter is if THEY got no value from this why is it even happening? Would they not have just sent everyone a bag instead. The bag exists because of the value they feel they can extract from running the promotion. Just because you don't think you personally could use a newsletter to your advantage doesn't mean other can't. I am arguing they gain something from this, likely more than you gain from the bag. It isn't free in any sense of the word. Which was the point of me even commenting. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: Anet gains value from the newsletter otherwise they would have just given everyone a bag. The players are sure getting informed about the existance of newsletter here, but getting a bag is NOT a transaction where you have to agree to keep receiving a newsletter in order to get a bag. You can get a bag and never receive a single newsletter. The value of newsletter for the company is rather obvious and simple: it's an ad delivered to your doorstep, but only if the player agrees to receive it. They don't need to agree on that to still receive a free bag. And as such, the bag is free. 19 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: It isn't free in any sense of the word. Ok, I checked and unchecked boxes to receive a bag. How is this not free for me and what did they gain? (mind that "free for me" and "no gain for someone" isn't the same thing, so make sure to address both, just in case) 19 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: This doesn't change the fact that many business extract value from that number being higher hence the reason they exist in the first place. Yeah, they "value that number" (newsletter receivers) for the same reason they value putting an add in your tv or on youtube. Because it's an ad that can interest the customer. But in this case, you can still immediatelly opt-out of receiving those ads and still get the bag. So bag = free. You're not even required to receive a single ad for it -if you receive it, it's because "you wanted to leave it on", not because "you had to in order to get a bag". Is this understandable? Edited October 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 If you're really so worried about companies using your data that you wouldn't dare sign up for a newletter and further concerned by the implications of them offering a promo worth approximately 30g (about £1.43 in real-world value) you probably shouldn't be playing an online game at all. They can get a lot more useful data from your activity in the game (I once heard that Google would kill to be able to gather the kind of metrics any MMO can get on their players). That goes double if you play through Steam, literally, because then two companies have access to your data. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Mazama.2917 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: The players are sure getting informed about the existance of newsletter here, but getting a bag is NOT a transaction where you have to agree to keep receiving a newsletter in order to get a bag. You can get a bag and never receive a single newsletter. The value of newsletter for the company is rather obvious and simple: it's an ad delivered to your doorstep, but only if the player agrees to receive it. They don't need to agree on that to still receive a free bag. And as such, the bag is free. Ok, I checked and unchecked boxes to receive a bag. How is this not free for me and what did they gain? (mind that "free for me" and "no gain for someone" isn't the same thing, so make sure to address both) Yeah, they "value that number" (newsletter receivers) for the same reason they value putting an add in your tv or on youtube. Because it's an ad that can interest the customer. But in this case, you can still immediatelly opt-out of receiving those adds and still get the bag. So bag = free. You're not even required to receive a single ad for it, if you receive it, it's becuse "you wanted to leave it on", not because "you had to in order to get a bag". Is this understandable? Free as in monetary value (resources) means there is no cost. Going to a website, clicking something, then unclicking it it not an action with no cost associated. It uses time that you could argue is the most valuable resource as we trade for all other resources. How much it costs is not the question, even if it is little. If it is not none then it isn't free, which why nothing is free. There is no free lunch, there is no free bag. there is no free service. If someone leaves their old desk on the curb with a sign 'free' and someone takes it. They just provided a service that the other person would have had to pay for or commit their own time and energy to when taking away that desk. If they spent all day taking unwanted desks from people's homes, they could make a business out of it and profit from providing the service. Their cost is opportunity, they gained a desk so they are content. It was not free it was an exchange. I don't think we are going to agree on this as it has gone in circles. To give special attention to 'How is this not free for me and what did they gain?' I have explained why I beleive anything that doesn't appear magically before you eyes is not free. What did they gain? There will always be something to gain in an offer. If there is no opportunity for one or both parties to benefit there is no offer being made in the first place. You traded your time an attention for the bag. That time and attention could have been used to leverage income for yourself that could be then converted to gems, and gold, and you can craft a ton of those bags. Someone who makes enough money could actively lose value doing that process even if this isn't you or me I bet it does exist. Losing value is not free in fact it is the opposite. I don't know how else to explain that nothing is free for you. No output is generated without input. Just because the value proposition (time, attention and potentially new information being shared for the bag) is good for most people does not mean it has no cost. If someone is offering you something they are likely standing to benefit in one way or another. Their benefit is almost always your cost or at least related to it in some way, so they are actually pretty close to the same thing. Matter can not be created or destroyed only moved around. Edited October 25, 2022 by Libera Simio.1592 1 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcShriek.5829 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 7:31 AM, Veprovina.4876 said: There is no problem, just a question. I'll soulbind into my main if I have to. I'm just wondering why it's souldbound in the first place. It could be a bug for all i know... No, it was a question followed by a snarky comment. You are being dishonest here. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: Free as in monetary value (resources) means there is no cost No, free as in how I literally said it's free: They don't need to agree on that to still receive a free bag. And as such, the bag is free. What you're doing immediatelly after this sentence is just going back to what I already commented on: nothing is free, you have to breath to live which in itself is an action and since you "took an action", you did something to get anything else. The word "free" doesn't exist in the idealized, purist meaning some of you are striving for here. "You had to click, so you've used time, so it's not free", uh. And a quick reminder what you've initalky answer to it: 2 hours ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: So should we stop caring about what a word actually means We shouldn't stop caring wht a word actually means, but what you try to present it as here (as some deep take) makes the word free non-existant. Isn't that where we've started this chain? It is. So then you've tried flipping it into "but they get your mail" (not really) and important stats (not more important than actual active players, so also no) and now... now you're back to the initial take you've tried to spin away from and suddenly "it's not free because that click cost you time". Ridiculous. 42 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: To give special attention to 'How is this not free for me and what did they gain?' I have explained why I beleive anything that doesn't appear magically before you eyes is not free. So, once again, as I said it right away in the very first mention about it: your idealized purist definition(???) of the word free makes the word free non-existant. But that word does exist and has its clear meaning, meaning you said yourself we shouldn't ignore. So we're not ignoring its meaning and call that bag for what it is: free. You're not trading in anything for it, you're not sharing more than you've already shared and you're not even required the get a single ad from a newsletter to get the bag. 42 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: That time and attention could have been used to leverage income for yourself How long did it take to check and uncheck those boxes? 10 seconds (with slow connection, I guess)? So go ahead and use those 10 seconds in a meaningful way to leverage income for yourself. 🤦♂️ All you have are purely theoretical empty phrases that have no meaning in reality in context we're discussing it in. 42 minutes ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: I don't know how else to explain that nothing is free for you If you think I don't understand that's what you're saying then you clearly didn't understand a single word you've read in my initial post: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/123351-mail-carrier-satchel-is-soulbound/page/2/#comment-1786401 Edited October 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 30 minutes ago, DarcShriek.5829 said: No, it was a question followed by a snarky comment. You are being dishonest here. Still a question. Just because i injected some humor into it, doesn't mean i'm complaining or that i'm making it a problem. I even said that i'll soulbind it to my main, but i posted a question first so i can get an understanding of it. For al i knew, a mod would come to the discussion and say, "it's a bug, don't soulbind it yet, we're working on it". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Mazama.2917 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: No, free as in how I literally said it's free: They don't need to agree on that to still receive a free bag. And as such, the bag is free. What you're doing immediatelly after this sentence is just going back to what I already commented on: nothing is free, you have to breath to live which in itself is an action and since you "took an action", you did something to get anything else. The word "free" doesn't exist in the idealized, purist meaning some of you are striving for here. "You had to click, so you've used time, so it's not free", uh. The word "free" doesn't exist in the idealized, purist meaning some of you are striving for here. You are making a claim, I argued against that statement and you pointed to that statement as you why I am wrong. I do not agree with that Idea and told you why. This is where we agree to disagree unless you have a better way to convince me because I do not have a better way to convice you. Simple as that everthing requires an action for it to exist so nothing is free, it all costs resources which are limited for everyone. There is no ideal sense of the word, the word has it's meaning. The hard meaning of free as in beer not as in freedom is no cost. I don't know what else you want me to say. In my opinion free is a marketing term because it doesn't exist and is used to entice people into a trade, which could actually be a favorable deal but it isn't necessarily. Having to follow a set of directions to get a prize is not something being given to you at no cost same as life wasn't given to you at no cost. You disagree with the semantic argument of the side of the actual hard definiton, that's fine. Your argument is low cost is no cost. Mine is no cost means no cost which doesn't really exist.. Any economist ever will agree there is opportunity cost to any offer, there is no ideal here, it is a fact. You think my version of free (the hard dictionary definiton) does not exist and I agree. Your soft defintion (low cost, which is not stated in the definition of the word) I think has different language options that better represent the idea. Using free in place of low cost is lazy language and beneficial for people that would like to offer you something to get you to produce certain behavior, without you feeling like you have given anything up. If you want to change my mind you should explain to me why my premise is wrong, what am I missing, where did my logic fall off? I have spent some time trying to explain once again to you why your premises are misguided in my opinion. I am not being effective enough in providing my argument to change your view and I accept that. If you accept that the idea of no cost does not exist then why do you insist on using a term that is defined by no cost to describe low cost? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: The word "free" doesn't exist in the idealized, purist meaning some of you are striving for here. You are making a claim, I argued against that statement and you pointed to that statement as you why I am wrong. I do not agree with that Idea and told you why. You don't agree with that idea? Then what do you think is actually free? Not in your idealized non-existant purely hyporthetical pseudo-example, but the actual existing situation. Because following your ""meaning"" of free, the existance of the word free wouldn't make sense. 17 hours ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: This is where we agree to disagree unless you have a better way to convince me because I do not have a better way to convice you. Why am I here to convince you? How about you convince me for a change? 🤔 Because for now I'm trying to clearly respond to what you write, while in exchange you're going for a blob of text where it's unclear which part answers to what and whether or not you're missing parts of my points intentionally or not. For instance did you not notice this part: How long did it take to check and uncheck those boxes? 10 seconds (with slow connection, I guess)? So go ahead and use those 10 seconds in a meaningful way to leverage income for yourself. 🤦♂️ All you have are purely theoretical empty phrases that have no meaning in reality in context we're discussing it in. ? Or are your hypotheticals really the only line you've decided to hold because you know anything beyond that line makes your (no-so-)deep takes simply unrealistic and going against the "meaning of the word" you've previously announce we shouldn't dismiss? 17 hours ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: There is no ideal sense of the word, the word has it's meaning. That's right. So it's time for you to check in the dictionary to check what it means, because it's not what you're typing out here. Follow the word's meaning like you're claiming we should do. Anyuthing else is your opinion about idealized meaning of it, which isn't in line with its actual meaning and usage. 17 hours ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: I don't know what else you want me to say. I don't need you to say much, bag is just free, you can mark and un-mark it at any time you have any 10 second downtime in the game -and you surely have plenty- at which point even any hypethetical opportunity cost you'd like to come up with again goes out of the window. 17 hours ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: In my opinion Following your words, your opinion about the meaning of the word has no bearing here, because the word does have its actual definition. It's not the matter of your opinion or your purely hypotherical takes like "you could use those 10 seconds to leverage income instead!". 17 hours ago, Libera Simio.1592 said: Your argument is low cost is no cost. No, my argument here is that no cost is no cost. And this bag has no cost. Was I somehow not clear about it in my previous posts? You've tried claiming it's about getting more personal data, but it isn't. You've claimed people have to keep receiving newsletters and that those newsletters are somehow a more meaningful dataset than the actual active players, while not only it isn't, but also the players don't need to subscribe to the newsletter because instantly opting out of it still gets you the free bag. These were your only attempts at outlining an actual, realistic "cost". It was explained to you it's false and now all you have are these weird pure hypotheticals. Oh well, don't think we'll go anywhere beyond that. Edited October 26, 2022 by Sobx.1758 "is" 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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