just roll back the changes. Should have given the damage trait for the dodge, multiple jumps to address the damage issue.

[Ausar.9542]

just roll back the changes. Should have given the damage trait for the dodge, multiple jumps to address the damage issue.

 

Support just needed better immunity frames and lower cost on Energy Meld.           

               

the Damage Grandmaster trait could use the multi jump. That way they get the damage boost that they needed without destroying the Saintgaroo build. 

[captrowdy.9561]

No. I’m having a great time 

[Esufer.8762]

The only thing I’m disappointed with is the uptime on buffs now with Imperial Impact, the 0.5s of protection extending into 1.5s doesn’t feel amazing. Class is serviceable, but a lot of the traits feel kind of underwhelming now. 
 

but I was happy with it with one dodge, so whatever.

[Angesombre.4630]

We have the impression that they are almost useless since the update of halloween.

When you look at the harbinger which gives a lot of buff and on a good duration without needing much concentration, it's disappointing as a returnee to have to do so much galere a certain thing.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Angesombre.4630

[Esufer.8762]

3 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

We have the impression that they are almost useless since the update of halloween.

When you look at the harbinger which gives a lot of buff and on a good duration without needing much concentration, it's disappointing as a returnee to have to do so much galere a certain thing.

watched a friend fight some ranger nonsense, and the ranger was keeping up like 20+ seconds of vigor, 30s of protection, 30s swiftness etc on top of all the rest. seemed quite the stark contrast.

[Catchyfx.5768]

6 hours ago, Esufer.8762 said:

watched a friend fight some ranger nonsense, and the ranger was keeping up like 20+ seconds of vigor, 30s of protection, 30s swiftness etc on top of all the rest. seemed quite the stark contrast.

Guards engies can do this too. I would say its just little bit better class design, so it not that Overpowered, or it is just allowed, after all ranger is newplayers go to.

[Esufer.8762]

I've spent quite a lot of time with Vindicator now, as they've stripped back what made it stand out more and more, and gotta say I preferred the 1 dodge version from a roaming standpoint. Being able to give yourself meaningful length buffs made the class feel really tanky, and I didn't feel like the 1 dodge was hindering me at all. Now we dodge for a couple of frames of buffs, and a sneeze of vigor, it's really soured my opinion on the class.

I hope there's some internal discussion that's looking at getting Vindicator towards a better feeling place, or at least thinking about reverting the changes now. Went from my favourite class to something I have to kind of force myself to play right now, and almost always ends in frustration.

Edit: It's worth noting I think vindicator is fine in terms of viability as a class, I just dislike how depressing the boon durations are throughout the entire vindi traitline. kind of sucks that you even with 100% boon duration you're taking the prot on dodge all the way to a staggering 1 second when other classes can get perma uptime, and with way less investment.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Esufer.8762

[arazoth.7290]

23 hours ago, Esufer.8762 said:

I've spent quite a lot of time with Vindicator now, as they've stripped back what made it stand out more and more, and gotta say I preferred the 1 dodge version from a roaming standpoint. Being able to give yourself meaningful length buffs made the class feel really tanky, and I didn't feel like the 1 dodge was hindering me at all. Now we dodge for a couple of frames of buffs, and a sneeze of vigor, it's really soured my opinion on the class.

I hope there's some internal discussion that's looking at getting Vindicator towards a better feeling place, or at least thinking about reverting the changes now. Went from my favourite class to something I have to kind of force myself to play right now, and almost always ends in frustration.

2 dodges is better then 1, but I get what you mean that it gives less effect. They could give more effect back on these if we had less dodge uptime. Before you are like "even less dodge uptime?", I will copy paste something I suggested earlier.

 

 

 

Vindicator needs in the following upsumming a small rework for more identity and better balancing in the future:

 

• 1. Energy meld:  2 charges 15 sec cd each, make it consume then the endurance for 25% endurance bar so it gets converted in 15% energy bar.
  •                                The benefits of the selected dodge traitline gets triggered too for 50% effect because only 25% endurance consumed.
•  

2. Mid row traits:

 

Reaver's Curse

Angsiyan's Trust

Song of Arboreum

this traitline row should work around vindicator switching between archemorus and saint viktor.

 

When you switch between each other, the active side should get bonus effect on the 2 abilities first used.

This way archy can give saint viktor for example some extra cc, boons, damage.

And saint viktor can give archy this way for example some extra support like boons, healing.

 

These bonus effects can be used on allies or enemies, so you can choose where you want to have it hit or spent, this gives some decision and more thinking where and when you want it be used.

 

 

OR

 

 

the alliance stance change could be a 5 second cd, this isn't to abnormal high but also not too low that you can switch on and off, so it still requires thinking which one you want to be in.

 

 

You could make archemorus or viktor meld with another legend. 

that could add 2 options ontop of my idea in mid row traitline. I would though still keep all 3 to activate but only 2 of them can meld according to following mid row traits. ==>

 

•1st traitline mid) archy can meld with shiro, mallyx.

•2nd traitline mid) archy and viktor meld together like described in first post.

•3rd traitline mid) viktor can meld with centaur and jalis.

 

But still on changing stances for both ideas, let it give bonus effect on first 2 abilities used when you switched.

 

The idea to seperate them I wouldn't do, this spec is about melding together alliances in unity.

[artharon.9276]

2 dodges for death from above.

revert back to 1 dodge for the other 2 traits and I support it. 

[otto.5684]

I was on the edge right after the change. Now, hell no. The 2 dodges work so much better and smoother. 

[Tammuz.7361]

On 12/17/2022 at 5:19 PM, Esufer.8762 said:

I've spent quite a lot of time with Vindicator now, as they've stripped back what made it stand out more and more, and gotta say I preferred the 1 dodge version from a roaming standpoint. Being able to give yourself meaningful length buffs made the class feel really tanky, and I didn't feel like the 1 dodge was hindering me at all. Now we dodge for a couple of frames of buffs, and a sneeze of vigor, it's really soured my opinion on the class.

I hope there's some internal discussion that's looking at getting Vindicator towards a better feeling place, or at least thinking about reverting the changes now. Went from my favourite class to something I have to kind of force myself to play right now, and almost always ends in frustration.

1 dodge made it unplayable in WvW groups and basically all PvE content

[Shao.7236]

Not a fan of double evade, just doesn't feel right and rather lazy.

[Esufer.8762]

9 hours ago, Tammuz.7361 said:

1 dodge made it unplayable in WvW groups and basically all PvE content

I got my legendary armor on one dodge vindicator through raids and used in both solo WvW and zergbusting WvW, so I respectfully disagree

[arazoth.7290]

On 12/18/2022 at 10:58 PM, arazoth.7290 said:

2 dodges is better then 1, but I get what you mean that it gives less effect. They could give more effect back on these if we had less dodge uptime. Before you are like "even less dodge uptime?", I will copy paste something I suggested earlier.

 

 

 

Vindicator needs in the following upsumming a small rework for more identity and better balancing in the future:

 

• 1. Energy meld:  2 charges 15 sec cd each, make it consume then the endurance for 25% endurance bar so it gets converted in 15% energy bar.
  •                                The benefits of the selected dodge traitline gets triggered too for 50% effect because only 25% endurance consumed.
•  

2. Mid row traits:

 

Reaver's Curse

Angsiyan's Trust

Song of Arboreum

this traitline row should work around vindicator switching between archemorus and saint viktor.

 

When you switch between each other, the active side should get bonus effect on the 2 abilities first used.

This way archy can give saint viktor for example some extra cc, boons, damage.

And saint viktor can give archy this way for example some extra support like boons, healing.

 

These bonus effects can be used on allies or enemies, so you can choose where you want to have it hit or spent, this gives some decision and more thinking where and when you want it be used.

 

 

OR

 

 

the alliance stance change could be a 5 second cd, this isn't to abnormal high but also not too low that you can switch on and off, so it still requires thinking which one you want to be in.

 

 

You could make archemorus or viktor meld with another legend. 

that could add 2 options ontop of my idea in mid row traitline. I would though still keep all 3 to activate but only 2 of them can meld according to following mid row traits. ==>

 

•1st traitline mid) archy can meld with shiro, mallyx.

•2nd traitline mid) archy and viktor meld together like described in first post.

•3rd traitline mid) viktor can meld with centaur and jalis.

 

But still on changing stances for both ideas, let it give bonus effect on first 2 abilities used when you switched.

 

The idea to seperate them I wouldn't do, this spec is about melding together alliances in unity.

=> dodge problem fixed because of this they can make again the feeling more impactfull, while solving some others problems same time